Canada refuses to extradict al Qaida suspect to US

[thraashman]

I can't blame Canada, maybe they're afraid we'll do shit like this again.

I don't think Obama would. But any Republican would because they care nothing about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights if it doesn't let them shoot someone.

 

[yllus]

The Khadr family are all scum. I'd want to hand them all over to the U.S., but frankly your track record for pursuing justice instead of revenge isn't great lately, and even these people deserve justice.

Khadr family views won't help Omar, lawyer says

Zaynab Khadr and her mother Maha Elsamnah were vilified in Canada following a March 2004 CBC documentary entitled Al Qaeda Family. The story profiled Khadr's older brother Abdurahman but featured interviews with his sister and mother where they spoke with ambivalence about the 9/11 attacks and criticized Canada's liberal laws. Elsamnah said she would rather raise her children to fight than live in Canada where they could become homosexuals or addicted to drugs.

The Khadrs: Canada's First Family of Terrorism

The terrorism-related activities of other Khadr family members — wife, one of two daughters, three of four sons — complement their patriarch's record.

Wife Maha Elsamnah took her then 14-year-old son Omar from Canada to Pakistan in 2001 and enrolled him for Al Qaeda training.

Daughter Zaynab, 23, was engaged to one terrorist and married, with Osama bin Laden himself present at the nuptials, a Qaeda member in 1999. Zaynab endorses the 9/11 atrocities and hopes her infant daughter will die fighting Americans.

Son Abdullah, 22, is a Qaeda fugitive constantly on the move to elude capture. Canadian intelligence states he ran a Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan during the Taliban period, something Abdullah denies.

Son Omar, 17, stands accused of hurling a grenade in July 2002, killing an American medic in Afghanistan. Omar lost sight in one eye in the fighting and is now a U.S. detainee in Guantánamo.

Son Abdul Karim, 14, half-paralyzed by wounds sustained in the October 2003 shoot-out that left his father dead, is presently prisoner in a Pakistani hospital.

Fortunately, there is also one positive story:

Son Abdurahman, 21, reluctantly trained with Al Qaeda, was captured by coalition forces in November 2001 and agreed to work for the Central Intelligence Agency in Kabul, Guantánamo, and Bosnia. He returned to Canada in October 2003, where he denounced both extremism ("I want to be a good, strong, civilized, peaceful Muslim" ) and his family's terroristic ways.

 

[actuarial]

I generally agree with this decision if the arrest/detainment went as they say. I'm also of the opinion that we've become pussies to the possibility of something bad happening and are pissing away our rights because of it (see body scanners).

On Omar Khadr: I never understood how throwing a grenade at a soldier in a war zone garners any punishment. Isn't that what war is? And reading that article above that he was sent to terrorist camp at 14 I feel really bad for him. That kid had little to no chance given his f'ed up parents.

 

[JTsyo]

We're not going to screw up relations with Canada for this twit. If they want him then be my guest.

He's already a Canadian citizen.

The U.S. paid Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) $500,000 to abduct Khadr, a Canadian citizen, in Islamabad on Oct. 15, 2004.

While I'm all for aggressively going after terrorist. We need to still play by our own rules. Outsourcing torture is just dishonest to our values. Now if we can pass a law that says it's OK to torture terror suspects then go for it.

 

[werepossum]

Tit for tat. If Canada (and Norway, etc.) refuse to extradite to the USA, let us return the favor and offer sanctuary to those wanted in those nations, as long as they do not break our laws. Further, let us treat those nations as potentially hostile, screening anyone from those nations just as someone from Yemen or Somalia.

 

[actuarial]

Tit for tat. If Canada (and Norway, etc.) refuse to extradite to the USA, let us return the favor and offer sanctuary to those wanted in those nations, as long as they do not break our laws. Further, let us treat those nations as potentially hostile, screening anyone from those nations just as someone from Yemen or Somalia.

Well in Canada's case, you want to extradite a Canadian citizen to the US after bribing a foreign government to detail him.

You don't see the difference between that and offering sanctuary to foreign criminals? Or maybe you don't understand what tit for tat means.

By all means, if the Canadian government pays a foreign intelligence agency to abduct an American citizen feel free not to release him to us.

 

[werepossum]

Well in Canada's case, you want to extradite a Canadian citizen to the US after bribing a foreign government to detail him.

You don't see the difference between that and offering sanctuary to foreign criminals? Or maybe you don't understand what tit for tat means.

By all means, if the Canadian government pays a foreign intelligence agency to abduct an American citizen feel free not to release him to us.

This is not the first time that Canada has refused extradition. Canada will not in fact extradite anyone facing the death penalty. Most of Europe does the same. If these nations wish to withhold the very worst of our fled criminals, I say go them one better and withhold all of theirs. Hey, nothing says the tit can't be bigger than the tat.

 

[actuarial]

This is not the first time that Canada has refused extradition. Canada will not in fact extradite anyone facing the death penalty. Most of Europe does the same. If these nations wish to withhold the very worst of our fled criminals, I say go them one better and withhold all of theirs. Hey, nothing says the tit can't be bigger than the tat.

Well if you use the phrase properly it definitely says that - equivalent retaliation.

Equivalent retaliation in this sense would be not extraditing criminals where you feel we have either apprehended them, or are going to punish them, in a manner which you do not deem appropriate in the universal sense (for example the death penalty).

Basically what you're advocating is throwing a tantrum because other countries are standing up for their legal and moral principles.

 

[zinfamous]

The Khadr family are all scum. I'd want to hand them all over to the U.S., but frankly your track record for pursuing justice instead of revenge isn't great lately, and even these people deserve justice.

I do believe that bin Laden received the justice that he deserved. No doubt about it. His international trial, prosecution, and defenses played out in the public court and in full view of everyone over the previous 20 years.

To assume that a public trial for bin Laden would have been anything more than a circus bogged down in bureaucracy and media mumbo jumbo for several years rejects reality, I think. Not to mention, the catastrophic consequences of keeping a guy like that in captivity during that time.

hell, the Dhalai Llama agrees!

 

[zinfamous]

Tit for tat. If Canada (and Norway, etc.) refuse to extradite to the USA, let us return the favor and offer sanctuary to those wanted in those nations, as long as they do not break our laws. Further, let us treat those nations as potentially hostile, screening anyone from those nations just as someone from Yemen or Somalia.

This is mostly stupid, particularly the bolded.

should we continue to stoop down to schoolyard antics? I thought we had had enough of that over the previous administration?

it is that kind of juvenile behavior that we outsourced in international affairs that has lead directly to this current foreign opinion of the US.

We are above that. Well, we should be.

 

[zinfamous]

Well if you use the phrase properly it definitely says that - equivalent retaliation.

Equivalent retaliation in this sense would be not extraditing criminals where you feel we have either apprehended them, or are going to punish them, in a manner which you do not deem appropriate in the universal sense (for example the death penalty).

Basically what you're advocating is throwing a tantrum because other countries are standing up for their legal and moral principles.

:thumbsup:

He is Canada's terrorist. Let them deal with them how they see fit.

it's not like they are Pakistan, where we have legitimate reason to assume that this accused terrorist will be receiving federal support instead of justice.

 

[CitizenKain]

LOL, with the exception of secret CIA holding facilities abroad, American jails are pretty nice compared to being "free" in many developing countries. How nice are max security prisons in Norway?

What, no they aren't. Our prison system is fucking terrible. Unless you one of those people that thinks Apirio is doing a good job in Az. If you are, then you're a terrible person.

 

[zinfamous]

wtf??
How about making your primary objective to stop prison violence. Seriously, wtf is up with people? Instead of fixing it, let's make sure everyone knows about it then we fix it and everyone knows we did something

Honestly, why does anyone need to address prison rape as a problem?

Isn't this one of those deterrents to stay the fuck away from prison, thus, not committing violent acts or terrible crimes that will mandate your sentence to a maximum security rape prison?

Plus, many people in prison are there b/c they are violent. Why does one think that placing a high concentration of extremely violent individuals into a confined space is going to magically make them non-violent?

Prison is supposed to be a deterrent--not a fucking cakewalk.

 

[zinfamous]

American prisons are dismal.

Rape, and beatings are allowed to occur.

Think about it... You can get AIDS in prison by being raped by an inmate. Is that possible anywhere else in the developed world?

Depends on whether or not you consider Russia the developed world, but...notoriously the absolute worst prison environment in the world (of the non-despot countries, anyway).

--and that's just the military prisons!

 

[thraashman]

Well if you use the phrase properly it definitely says that - equivalent retaliation.

Equivalent retaliation in this sense would be not extraditing criminals where you feel we have either apprehended them, or are going to punish them, in a manner which you do not deem appropriate in the universal sense (for example the death penalty).

Basically what you're advocating is throwing a tantrum because other countries are standing up for their legal and moral principles.

Duh, it's called being a conservative. Other countries should always listen to us, didn't you know?

 

[Scotteq]

This is not the first time that Canada has refused extradition. Canada will not in fact extradite anyone facing the death penalty. Most of Europe does the same. If these nations wish to withhold the very worst of our fled criminals, I say go them one better and withhold all of theirs. Hey, nothing says the tit can't be bigger than the tat.

I disagree - Canada and Europe should be perfectly welcome to play caregiver for our criminals any time they choose. As a matter of fact, as long as they're stepping up to the plate to deal with the issue on our behalf, I'm quite sure we could even find some more who would be perfectly willing to keep their Ex-Pat bretheren company in their new, progressive, surroundings.

And since we have such a deep and abiding respect [sic] for the Rule of Law and National Sovereignity we should also cheerfully send their criminals back to them with all due haste.


Nothing but "Win" for the USA in that situation.

 

[rudder]

Fuck em. This is a job for CIA. Snatch him boys.

Stealth blackhawk FTW!

 

[zinfamous]

He claimed to have cleaned it up, but one man alone cannot clean up the CIA & FBI. These type of jobs cannot be refilled every time the presidency changes hands.

As to this case, if Canada wants him, and trusts him to live there, let them have him.

But I bet your ass that the CIA will nab him.

Cat

he also claimed to halt the DEA busting up MJ dispensaries in CA and CO.

that hasn't happened.



but, to be fair, a vast majority of those operate outside of the legality of their state's respective statutes, so they should be busted up, if you ask me.

 

[actuarial]

:thumbsup:

He is Canada's terrorist. Let them deal with them how they see fit.

it's not like they are Pakistan, where we have legitimate reason to assume that this accused terrorist will be receiving federal support instead of justice.

The only problem I now is that he will not be held accountable for his crimes even here.

But I will take that over allowing a foreign government to pay mercenaries to kidnap and torture our citizens.

 

[yllus]

I do believe that bin Laden received the justice that he deserved. No doubt about it. His international trial, prosecution, and defenses played out in the public court and in full view of everyone over the previous 20 years.

To assume that a public trial for bin Laden would have been anything more than a circus bogged down in bureaucracy and media mumbo jumbo for several years rejects reality, I think. Not to mention, the catastrophic consequences of keeping a guy like that in captivity during that time.

hell, the Dhalai Llama agrees!

I wasn't talking about Bin Laden, whom I agree met with best and most realistic fate. I'm thinking more of Maher Arar.

Honestly, why does anyone need to address prison rape as a problem?

Isn't this one of those deterrents to stay the fuck away from prison, thus, not committing violent acts or terrible crimes that will mandate your sentence to a maximum security rape prison?

Plus, many people in prison are there b/c they are violent. Why does one think that placing a high concentration of extremely violent individuals into a confined space is going to magically make them non-violent?

Prison is supposed to be a deterrent--not a fucking cakewalk.

I've never considered people brutalizing others to be funny or useful. While, yes, justice must be done and shouldn't be done in abnormal comfort, the vast majority of these people are not going to be locked away forever. As a result, some sort of rehabilitation is desirable, if not necessary.

 

[CanOWorms]

Personally, I would hope that the US does the same to Canada, especially for any Quebec separatists if they resume their activities for freedom. The brutal historical crackdown and treatment of them in Canada is beyond even third-world status.

In addition, here we have proof of Canada harboring a terrorist. Yet in Pakistan, we just have speculation regarding OBL's relationship with the establishment.

 

[Fern]

LOL, with the exception of secret CIA holding facilities abroad, American jails are pretty nice compared to being "free" in many developing countries. How nice are max security prisons in Norway?
-snip-

According to some prison shows I've seen on TV - very nice.

Nothing at all like ours. They lived in their own studio type apts. They didn't wear prison garb. They walked around without chains/cuffs, and these were convicted murderers.

Other prisons in parts of Europe are really nice as well.

Fern

 

[Fern]

The U.S. paid Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) $500,000 to abduct Khadr, a Canadian citizen, in Islamabad on Oct. 15, 2004.

So we blew $500K on this?

Did the CIA not realize Pakistan would need Canada's permission to send him here? Or, did Pakistan hose us?

Fern

 

[Fern]

I thought Obama stopped doing all of that stuff?

Yes. A curious decision given changes by the Obama admin. Either the court mysteriously overlooked/dismissed those or believes Obama made no meaningful changes. Strikes me as an insult to the Obama admin.

Fern

 

[zinfamous]

I wasn't talking about Bin Laden, whom I agree met with best and most realistic fate. I'm thinking more of Maher Arar.



I've never considered people brutalizing others to be funny or useful. While, yes, justice must be done and shouldn't be done in abnormal comfort, the vast majority of these people are not going to be locked away forever. As a result, some sort of rehabilitation is desirable, if not necessary.

I actually do agree with you on all points. Most of my issues regarding incarceration and rehabilitation comes down to the fact that while we should be as humanistic as possible, prison is a punishment. And we shouldn't be spending $45-50k/year on each federal prisoner--especially when you consider that sum is higher than the majority of individual salaries in this country. yeah--I know that's an overgeneralization, it's not like that sum goes directly into this person's upkeep, but that is the cost/prisoner.

We do spend far more on education, and when it comes to criminals--more on incarceration than rehabilitation and creating useful former inmates.