Canada has NO tanks -- Seattle Times

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Phuz
There is a lot of domestic pressures from the United States to contribute - no longer do we really have the role of peacekeepers. I agree that Canada must play their part in sustaining international stability and we need to stop pretending that we are furthering the Canadian cause by skimping on military spending....
however, I don't think we should be fighting wars thats deemed necessity by one of the only countries pushing the whole agenda.

Our military simply isn't strong enough to meet its NATO obligations, let alone play the role that the US wants us too. Out of -10k~ units, 50% or more are still in Kosovo, bosnia, afghanistan, etc. Of the 16 members of the NATO alliance, Canada ranks 12th on a per-capita basis in its defense expenditures. In comparison, the smaller country of Luxembourg ranks 10th.

Too many Americans think Canadians owe service, a contribution, a larger military budget. I think a big reason as to why we contribute so little to our military is because we're being told to. Our autonomy is a joke, so I don't find it overly surprising that Canadians flip em' the bird once and a while, hence the issues with US and NAFTA, marijuana decriminalization, etc... Canada is living under a US military umbrella - yes, but that is also the reason why we are virtually forced to support the US in its WOT.

Hence the reason, Phuz, why we should not increase our military spending. If we do, it will be used not for our, but American, aims.

 

[Phuz]

Also, wheres the motivation? One of Canada's largest, most memorable contribution to Military development was destroyed by a shady political fiasco with the US government.

 

[sandorski]

Canada has always risen to the challenge when needed and so far since Confederation not once has Canada needed a significant Armed Force to defend itself. I'd like to see Canada's military to be improved, but I wouldn't want to improve it just to tag along on the occassional US power trip. Canada has no interest in Empire, we'll contribute to UN Peace Missions though.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Phuz
There is a lot of domestic pressures from the United States to contribute - no longer do we really have the role of peacekeepers. I agree that Canada must play their part in sustaining international stability and we need to stop pretending that we are furthering the Canadian cause by skimping on military spending....
however, I don't think we should be fighting wars thats deemed necessity by one of the only countries pushing the whole agenda.

Our military simply isn't strong enough to meet its NATO obligations, let alone play the role that the US wants us too. Out of -10k~ units, 50% or more are still in Kosovo, bosnia, afghanistan, etc. Of the 16 members of the NATO alliance, Canada ranks 12th on a per-capita basis in its defense expenditures. In comparison, the smaller country of Luxembourg ranks 10th.

Too many Americans think Canadians owe service, a contribution, a larger military budget. I think a big reason as to why we contribute so little to our military is because we're being told to. Our autonomy is a joke, so I don't find it overly surprising that Canadians flip em' the bird once and a while, hence the issues with US and NAFTA, marijuana decriminalization, etc... Canada is living under a US military umbrella - yes, but that is also the reason why we are virtually forced to support the US in its WOT.

Maybe it is the other way around, since you have no means of self defense, you lose you autonomy.

 

[Phuz]

You're only proving my point..

Just so I understand... you're implying that if someone can't protect themselves, they don't deserve to govern themselves?
They should lose all rights, liberty, etc?

You have a very typical imperialist attitude. Manifest destiny, right?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Phuz
You're only proving my point..

Just so I understand... you're implying that if someone can't protect themselves, they don't deserve to govern themselves?
They should lose all rights, liberty, etc?

You have a very typical imperialist attitude. Manifest destiny, right?

Not at all. When you depend on another for protection, you loose your ability to govern yourself.

The US could not ask for a better neighbor than Canada, as we have much in common. Canada would do well to grow a backbone and stand up to the US when there is a disagreement. But you rely too much on the US to have the courage to do so. This is your fault not ours.

If you really think the US is imperialist with manafest destiny ideals, you had better call your goverment and start building a military as it takes time to do so.

 

[SSP]

The liberals will most likely win again, so we can keep blaming them for our rundown millitary.

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Phuz
You're only proving my point..

Just so I understand... you're implying that if someone can't protect themselves, they don't deserve to govern themselves?
They should lose all rights, liberty, etc?

You have a very typical imperialist attitude. Manifest destiny, right?

Not at all. When you depend on another for protection, you loose your ability to govern yourself.

We don't depend on you. The USA has its own ultimatum for protecting its northern neighbours, and it isn't for our benefit.
Firstly, who is going to attack us? Besides, why would any terrorist attack its only gateway into North America.
Secondly, if the US didn't protect us, and we were over run, you'd have the worlds largest un-patrolled border to look after, and it would NOT be easy to defend.

The US could not ask for a better neighbor than Canada, as we have much in common. Canada would do well to grow a backbone and stand up to the US when there is a disagreement. But you rely too much on the US to have the courage to do so. This is your fault not ours.

What are you talking about? We DO not rely on the USA. Our government may be heavily (illegitimately) influenced by the USA, simply because we have no choice.

We're not fighting in Iraq unless the U.N. says otherwise.
We have decided to decriminalize marijuana.
We trade with countries we WANT to.

etc etc etc..

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Phuz
You're only proving my point..

Just so I understand... you're implying that if someone can't protect themselves, they don't deserve to govern themselves?
They should lose all rights, liberty, etc?

You have a very typical imperialist attitude. Manifest destiny, right?

Not at all. When you depend on another for protection, you loose your ability to govern yourself.

We don't depend on you. The USA has its own ultimatum for protecting its northern neighbours, and it isn't for our benefit.

You do benefit from it. Since you show no desire in protecting your borders, it is in our interest to do so.

Firstly, who is going to attack us?
Not long ago canada would have made a soft toe hold for the Soviet Union. There is no threat today, but something could tommorow.

Besides, why would any terrorist attack its only gateway into North America.

You are the only gateway if you dont count Mexico

Secondly, if the US didn't protect us, and we were over run, you'd have the worlds largest un-patrolled border to look after, and it would NOT be easy to defend.
As I said above, it is both of interests to work together. It is in Canada best interest be able to make NATO requirements. The world is better off if you do.

The US could not ask for a better neighbor than Canada, as we have much in common. Canada would do well to grow a backbone and stand up to the US when there is a disagreement. But you rely too much on the US to have the courage to do so. This is your fault not ours.

What are you talking about? We DO not rely on the USA. Our government may be heavily (illegitimately) influenced by the USA, simply because we have no choice.
The US and Canada are tied together politically and economically. Canada's economy goes up and down with ours. Canada also possesses more economic power than it realizes. If you beleive you have no choice, you are a complete pacifist who beleives your goverment is incapable of doing the right thing.


We're not fighting in Iraq unless the U.N. says otherwise.
That is fine by me. We have not asked for your help and we are prepared to do it alone if need be.

We have decided to decriminalize marijuana.
Good for you

We trade with countries we WANT to.
Good for you

etc etc etc..

 

[NokiaDude]

Annex Canada, Sure! I met some girls from British Canada, they were really fine! I mean like drop dead gorgeous. And If I were to marry one of em it we anexed I wouldn't be marring a blood sucking foreinger. (sorry foreingers)

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: NokiaDude
Annex Canada, Sure! I met some girls from British Canada, they were really fine! I mean like drop dead gorgeous. And If I were to marry one of em it we nnexed and wouldn't be marring a blood sucking foreinger. (sorry foreingers)

Canada is too socialist to be worth annexing, but they make good neighbors.

 

[Scouzer]

Agreed with most of what charrison's says, and I'm Canadian. However, a lot of Western Canadians firmly believe the federal government is incompetent. Especially many of us Albertaners have absolutely no faith in the feds.

We really need to pull our own weight in the treaties we're obligated in. Can't expect other people to do for you what you wouldn't do for them.

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Agreed with most of what charrison's says, and I'm Canadian. However, a lot of Western Canadians firmly believe the federal government is incompetent. Especially many of us Albertaners have absolutely no faith in the feds.

We really need to pull our own weight in the treaties we're obligated in. Can't expect other people to do for you what you wouldn't do for them.

and us British Columbians..

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

I wouldn't hold my breath for that US invasion... Most of their troops would wussy out once they realize that below 0F temps are quite common in Canada

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
I wouldn't hold my breath for that US invasion... Most of their troops would wussy out once they realize that below 0F temps are quite common in Canada

It keeps me away in the winter

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
I wouldn't hold my breath for that US invasion... Most of their troops would wussy out once they realize that below 0F temps are quite common in Canada

Nah, the real danger for American troops invading Canada is all that good (semi-legal!) chronic.
You kind of lose interest in the whole agression thing when you are stoned out on your mind.