Can You Still Build a PC for Less?

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I don't think this conversation is going any further

Um, basically. :beer:

 

[Jeff7181]

I didn't read every post... but here's my .02 anyway...

When all is said and done, everything is purchased and you have it sitting in front of you ready to play F.E.A.R. you can't beat the price/performance of a custom built rig. Dell can come close because you can buy a piece of junk and use it as a bare bones type of thing and take their volume discount on the case, PSU, optical drives, motherboard, etc. etc. and usually get a monitor out of it, sometimes even a crappy little LCD. Either way... you'll end up spending more money to get similar performance and have a much more difficult time upgrading and overclocking it. Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't opening a Dell and changing the hardware void the warranty? If so... there goes one of the few remaining advantages Dell has over a custom build.

*EDIT* If you want to prove us BYOers wrong (or right)... post some benchmarks.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
I didn't read every post... but here's my .02 anyway...

When all is said and done, everything is purchased and you have it sitting in front of you ready to play F.E.A.R. you can't beat the price/performance of a custom built rig. Dell can come close because you can buy a piece of junk and use it as a bare bones type of thing and take their volume discount on the case, PSU, optical drives, motherboard, etc. etc. and usually get a monitor out of it, sometimes even a crappy little LCD. Either way... you'll end up spending more money to get similar performance and have a much more difficult time upgrading and overclocking it. Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't opening a Dell and changing the hardware void the warranty? If so... there goes one of the few remaining advantages Dell has over a custom build.

*EDIT* If you want to prove us BYOers wrong (or right)... post some benchmarks.

Actually, no, adding, or changing hardware does not void the warranty. However, I will say that changing the OS may cause you trouble in receiving support.

Here are my numbers for FEAR with my Dell 9100 (Pent 630, 2GB, 7800 GTX)...

1600x1200
Volumetric Lights OFF
Soft shadows OFF
Everything else MAX
AA OFF
AF X16

Results:

Minimum 29 FPS
Average 48 FPS
Max 92 FPS

00% Below 25 FPS
44% 25-40 FPS
56% More than 40 FPS

Again, I added the 7800 GTX and half the ram. Everything is running at stock. The total price for my system was 920 shipped after tax.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Building your own PC has its strengths, as does buying name-brand. One of the strengths for BYO is that it almost always costs less than a name-brand. Of course, you have to know what you're doing, and even then you have a bit of risk involved with various surprises. But if you do your homework and shop around, building your own PC is just cheaper, except under vary few circumstances.

Part of the problem is that folks look at so-called "deals" like the ones posted above, and go on about how they're a steal. The truth is, though, doing that is working backwards. Begin with a set of needs, and go from there.

Let's take my Dad as an example. He still uses an old PII-400, and he's beginning to consider upgrading. He wants it to be seamless, so we won't be dismantling the old one before the new one is up and running. He'll be reusing his printer/monitor/mouse/keyboard/speakers, so all he needs for the upgrade is a box and an OS.

He needs it to be cheap, but not so cheap that it's already out-of-date. He also needs front USB ports, a DVD burner and a floppy drive. An 80GB hard disk is fine, as is 512MB RAM. A TV-out port (RCA) is a plus, but not necessary. He definitely needs a modem, too.

Let's go to Newegg for the parts. It's not always the cheapest, but it's reliable and quick...

$73 Epox EP-8KDA3J < I love this board.
$76 Sempron 64 2800+ < This gets to 2.3 GHz easy, and with luck to 2.5.
$37 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM < Standard stuff.
$33 case/PSU combo < Standard stuff.
$89 Windows XP < He wants to be legal.
$66 Seagate 80 GB SATA hard disk < Never skimp on the hard disk.
$42 NEC ND-3550A < I hear this is one of the best drives on the market.
$28 video card < It has a TV-out port, which is all he wants.
$10 floppy drive < Standard stuff.
$10 modem < Standard stuff.

Total price? $464 shipped. You can't beat that with Dell.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Total price? $464 shipped. You can't beat that with Dell.

Yes, you can.

IMO, price is no longer an argument. BYO has a lot of advantages, but cost is just no longer one of them.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Total price? $464 shipped. You can't beat that with Dell.

Yes, you can.

IMO, price is no longer an argument. BYO has a lot of advantages, but cost is just no longer one of them.

That Dell system is refurbished, but even ignoring that, it has no DVD burner, floppy drive or TV-out port. It's also slower.

No, building your own is definitely cheaper.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Total price? $464 shipped. You can't beat that with Dell.

Yes, you can.

IMO, price is no longer an argument. BYO has a lot of advantages, but cost is just no longer one of them.

That Dell system is refurbished, but even ignoring that, it has no DVD burner, floppy drive or TV-out port. It's also slower.

No, building your own is definitely cheaper.

LOL, it was actually brand new. Read up through the thread, I've explained what that is so. It does not have a dvd burner, but the video card does have TV-output. It's also more than $100 cheaper. What's a dvd burner cost? $40?

It also has a keyboard and mouse. It also has newer technology, i.e, a PCIe x16 slot, and a chipset compatible with dual core cpu's. It also has a MUCH better case and PSU. And, it costs less.

 

[Muse]

I guess you can get a pre-built PC (say from Dell) that has all the capability of the one you'd build yourself and for less money. However, the one you build yourself is probably more versatile, more upgradeable, less "proprietary." The prebuilt PC's from the big PC makers that I've seen have been far more difficult to upgrade than the boxes I've put together myself. Of course, I don't do it very often so every time I do I have to do a bunch of research to find out what's what, and even so I only find out so much. But I've found it helpful to know that stuff even though I make my money on the software end of things, programming.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: bamacre
LOL, it was actually brand new. Read up through the thread, I've explained what that is so.

That's not what the Dell website says. Its outlet products are made up of three categories: refurbished (retested & repackaged), previously ordered new (from cancelled orders) & scratch/dent (cosmetically damaged). While the refurbished items may not have been used by a consumer, they are not "new."

It does not have a dvd burner, but the video card does have TV-output. It's also more than $100 cheaper. What's a dvd burner cost? $40?

The link says nothing about a TV-out port, although I wouldn't be surprised if it has one. You could get an NEC ND-3550A for $42 and a floppy drive for $10.

It is not $100 cheaper. The base price is $292.60, tax is $19.31 and shipping is $24. That brings the total price to $387.91. Again, though, that's a refurbished PC--and partially BYO. And it's slower.

It also has newer technology, i.e, a PCIe x16 slot, and a chipset compatible with dual core cpu's. It also has a MUCH better case and PSU. And, it costs less.

I really doubt it has a better PSU, but anything that works will suffice. If you're concerned about upgrading, buying something with a non-transferrable OS is a mistake. He doesn't need PCIe.

 

[Niege]

Then there is the concept of how much your own labor is worth. If building the rig is a hobby, done for sheer enjoyment, no problem. If, however, the building of the rig takes significant time and that time could be used to do something more enjoyable or profitable, then you have to take the cost of your own labor into consideration. Don't forget that Dell has the cost of labor already included in the price, and DIY doesn't.

I built my last rig but I'm thinking that the next one I'll buy prebuilt because my time has gotten so short, and therefore, more valuable to me.

So... how long does it take you to build a rig once all the parts are in? I'm curious.

I don't remember now long it took me, some three and a half years ago. Then I had done lots of upgrades but not built a rig from scratch. If I did it again, it wouldn't take me as long.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

That's very true. If you don't enjoy building PCs like I do, then you probably shouldn't build one. However, as shown above, even getting a cheap-o refurb unit requires some tinkering.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: bamacre
LOL, it was actually brand new. Read up through the thread, I've explained what that is so.

That's not what the Dell website says. Its outlet products are made up of three categories: refurbished (retested & repackaged), previously ordered new (from cancelled orders) & scratch/dent (cosmetically damaged). While the refurbished items may not have been used by a consumer, they are not "new."

It does not have a dvd burner, but the video card does have TV-output. It's also more than $100 cheaper. What's a dvd burner cost? $40?

The link says nothing about a TV-out port, although I wouldn't be surprised if it has one. You could get an NEC ND-3550A for $42 and a floppy drive for $10.

It is not $100 cheaper. The base price is $292.60, tax is $19.31 and shipping is $24. That brings the total price to $387.91. Again, though, that's a refurbished PC--and partially BYO. And it's slower.

It also has newer technology, i.e, a PCIe x16 slot, and a chipset compatible with dual core cpu's. It also has a MUCH better case and PSU. And, it costs less.

I really doubt it has a better PSU, but anything that works will suffice. If you're concerned about upgrading, buying something with a non-transferrable OS is a mistake. He doesn't need PCIe.

I don't care what the dell website says. I have over 70 of these systems in my apartment right now, and I have bought tons more of them. 90% of the systems I buy from dell Outlet are brand spanking new systems. Never used.

It does have a better power supply than the one you listed above. I have a 7800 GTX running on one right now. Would you run a 7800 GTX on the one you linked to? Even dell offers a 7800 GTX with these systems, along with dual core Intel cpu's.

I never said anything about performance (I doubt he needs an OC'd semprom as well), nor did I say anything about transferrable OS's. Your statement was...

Total price? $464 shipped. You can't beat that with Dell.

... and now that I have beated your statement to a pulp, you're the one argueing about things other than price. Needs, OC'ing, yeah, anything but price.

I've already said there were disadvantages to buying a Dell, including lack of AMD, OC'ing, etc. I'm not arguing here, but you all seem to be.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: bamacre
... and now that I have beated your statement to a pulp, you're the one argueing about things other than price. Needs, OC'ing, yeah, anything but price.

I've already said there were disadvantages to buying a Dell, including lack of AMD, OC'ing, etc. I'm not arguing here, but you all seem to be.

You can buy a refurb unit cheaper, sure. You can't beat the $464 price with a new system. I'm sorry you seem to think refurb is the same as new, but it's just not so.

Also, even the refurb system lacked essential components (DVD burner & FDD). You could buy drives from Newegg and install them, sure, but then it's partially custom-built, and it's still refurbished.

You can't buy a new system for less than you can build one--with a few rare exceptions, I'm sure, but this isn't one of them.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: bamacre
... and now that I have beated your statement to a pulp, you're the one argueing about things other than price. Needs, OC'ing, yeah, anything but price.

I've already said there were disadvantages to buying a Dell, including lack of AMD, OC'ing, etc. I'm not arguing here, but you all seem to be.

You can buy a refurb unit cheaper, sure. You can't beat the $464 price with a new system. I'm sorry you seem to think refurb is the same as new, but it's just not so.

How would you like for me to prove it to you? I work with these all the time, every day. They are new, well the vast majority of them anyways. Dell sells these things as refurb to dump inventory. Do you have any idea what it takes to sell over 9 million computers a year, all the while, keeping a low inventory? Dell operates on no more than TWO HOURS of inventory. Have you ever purchased a refurb'd unit from dell outlet? No. I have, hundreds of them.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: bamacre

How would you like for me to prove it to you? I work with these all the time, every day. They are new, well the vast majority of them anyways. Dell sells these things as refurb to dump inventory. Do you have any idea what it takes to sell over 9 million computers a year, all the while, keeping a low inventory? Dell operates on an average of TWO HOURS of inventory. Have you ever purchased a refurb'd unit from dell outlet? No. I have, hundreds of them.

So you have a hundred refurb units. You think they're new because they've been repackaged in shrink wrap? Why would the website have separate categories of "refurbished" and "previously ordered new"? And let's say most of them are new. How do you know which are new and which are used before you buy it?

 

[imported_electron]

Show me this on your Dell box. No cheating now!

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: bamacre

How would you like for me to prove it to you? I work with these all the time, every day. They are new, well the vast majority of them anyways. Dell sells these things as refurb to dump inventory. Do you have any idea what it takes to sell over 9 million computers a year, all the while, keeping a low inventory? Dell operates on an average of TWO HOURS of inventory. Have you ever purchased a refurb'd unit from dell outlet? No. I have, hundreds of them.

So you have a hundred refurb units. You think they're new because they've been repackaged in shrink wrap? And let's say most of them are new. How do you know which are new and which are used?

There are a few ways I can tell. One is that on the 9100, XPS 400, and the XPS 600 (and Gen4 and Gen5) there is a plastic removable cover that protects a piece of hard plastic (or metal on the 600 and Gen4 and 5) on the front cover. Every once in a while, this piece of protective plastic is not there. When they are not there, there are very small visible signs of use, although they have been cleaned.

But the most obvious way I can tell is in regards to the warranty and service tag. If the system is new, the service tag automatically gets assigned to my name, and if there was a previous owner, it always take a couple of days.

Another way I can tell is when they list several (like 10 or more) of the same config in their inventory. They do this with higher-end cpu's, video cards, etc. Too many in inventory, throw them in a set config, and sell as refurb. Perfect example, I bought 7 Dell 8400's, all listed at the same time, all same config, all same price, with Pentium 650's, 512 ram, xp pro, dvd-rom, x300, etc. I got four of them in the other day, absolutley perfect condition, brand new systems built from spare inventory.

Here's a link that backs up my claim about Dell operating on two hours of inventory, Text.

How do you think they move unneeded inventory quickly and easily, at discounted prices, without consumers knowing about it and de-valueing "new" inventory?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: electron
Show me this on your Dell box. No cheating now!

Me? Text

Why?

 

[imported_electron]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: electron
Show me this on your Dell box. No cheating now!

Me? Text

Why?

Not bad. Why? Because the avg. prebuilt PC is loaded with junk. Is that how you got it or did you remove all the junk they pile on there?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Why would the website have separate categories of "refurbished" and "previously ordered new"?

So, they can sell their canceled orders for more. These three categories are actually new to their setup.

And let's say most of them are new. How do you know which are new and which are used before you buy it?

Honestly, I don't care. When I sell them, I have to say they're refurbished anyways. Legally, I cannot say they are new, even when most of them are.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: electron

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: electron
Show me this on your Dell box. No cheating now!

Me? Text

Why?

Not bad. Why? Because the avg. prebuilt PC is loaded with junk. Is that how you got it or did you remove all the junk they pile on there?

LOL, the first thing anyone should do with a Dell is re-format and re-install. Even some of my customers know this, and confirm with me that the install CD is included. So, yes, the first thing I did was reform and re-install. The install OEM cd's don't have the junk on them.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: bamacre

There are a few ways I can tell. One is that on the 9100, XPS 400, and the XPS 600 (and Gen4 and Gen5) there is a plastic removable cover that protects a piece of hard plastic (or metal on the 600 and Gen4 and 5) on the front cover. Every once in a while, this piece of protective plastic is not there. When they are not there, there are very small visible signs of use, although they have been cleaned.

But the most obvious way I can tell is in regards to the warranty and service tag. If the system is new, the service tag automatically gets assigned to my name, and if there was a previous owner, it always take a couple of days.

Another way I can tell is when they list several (like 10 or more) of the same config in their inventory. They do this with higher-end cpu's, video cards, etc. Too many in inventory, throw them in a set config, and sell as refurb. Perfect example, I bought 7 Dell 8400's, all listed at the same time, all same config, all same price, with Pentium 650's, 512 ram, xp pro, dvd-rom, x300, etc. I got four of them in the other day, absolutley perfect condition, brand new systems built from spare inventory.

Here's a link that backs up my claim about Dell operating on two hours of inventory, Text.

How do you think they move unneeded inventory quickly and easily, at discounted prices, without consumers knowing about it and de-valueing "new" inventory?

No, I mean how can you tell which are new before you buy? From what you're telling me, the system is *probably* new (assuming you're right about new systems being sold as refurb). And that of course means that it might be used.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: bamacre

There are a few ways I can tell. One is that on the 9100, XPS 400, and the XPS 600 (and Gen4 and Gen5) there is a plastic removable cover that protects a piece of hard plastic (or metal on the 600 and Gen4 and 5) on the front cover. Every once in a while, this piece of protective plastic is not there. When they are not there, there are very small visible signs of use, although they have been cleaned.

But the most obvious way I can tell is in regards to the warranty and service tag. If the system is new, the service tag automatically gets assigned to my name, and if there was a previous owner, it always take a couple of days.

Another way I can tell is when they list several (like 10 or more) of the same config in their inventory. They do this with higher-end cpu's, video cards, etc. Too many in inventory, throw them in a set config, and sell as refurb. Perfect example, I bought 7 Dell 8400's, all listed at the same time, all same config, all same price, with Pentium 650's, 512 ram, xp pro, dvd-rom, x300, etc. I got four of them in the other day, absolutley perfect condition, brand new systems built from spare inventory.

Here's a link that backs up my claim about Dell operating on two hours of inventory, Text.

How do you think they move unneeded inventory quickly and easily, at discounted prices, without consumers knowing about it and de-valueing "new" inventory?

No, I mean how can you tell which are new before you buy? From what you're telling me, the system is *probably* new (assuming you're right about new systems being sold as refurb). And that of course means that it might be used.

Honestly, I don't care. When I sell them, I have to say they're refurbished anyways. Legally, I cannot say they are new, even when most of them are.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Well then, that means you can get a Dell system that may or may not be used, to which you must add whitebox components, for less than a faster home-built system. That's not what most people would want. I know it's not what my father would want.

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: Chacranajxy

Originally posted by: IGBT
Text

Don't believe me? Just try building yourself a Pentium-4 based system for less than you'd pay for any basic Dell Dimension PC. See, every day Dell buys a gazillion hard drives, optical drives, motherboards, and so on, so it gets a better unit price for these components than you do for your single purchase. The fact is, without cannibalizing half of your current PC's parts, you can't touch Dell when it comes to building a cheap PC.

And Dell can't touch me when it comes to building a decent PC. If I wanted the absolute ghettoest PC I could get, yeah, I'd go to Dell. But if I want something relatively inexpensive that's actually good and doesn't have all of Dell's preloaded crap, then the only real option is to build it.

owned
with the money you spend on a Dell, a few more bucks will get you a custom built system that has "features you want"