Can you Fix the California Budget?

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BansheeX

Senior member
Sep 10, 2007
348
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Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Great idea. Let's stop educating our citizens, stop helping the elderly/poor/disabled/less fortunate, get rid of law enforcement, reduce state workers compensation so it's not competetive and they decide to leave to go into the private sector, and while we're at it throw in some one time fixes.

:thumbsup:

Education is a service like any other, the whole reason it's overpiced and of poor quality is because it is funded by forcible appropriations, whereas a private servicer has to convince a buyer of value, either by displaying their higher quality or lower price relative to competing servicers. Moreover, if you cut government education, it puts money that otherwise would have been taken from parents through taxation back into their pockets, at which point they can buy the service directly. Even if you thought it was moral to redistribute money downward to families who had way more kids than they could afford and are poor BECAUSE of that choice, and don't mind staying there BECAUSE you subsidize them the poorer they get, it would still be far better to have a voucher system where the money is divied out to the consumer rather than to the producer. That way, the provider is actually incentivized to work harder, now having to convince others to voluntarily relinquish their money to them and not someone else.

Second, why are you bringing up things like law enforcement when other states are perfectly capable of offering the same thing without being buried under insane amounts of debt? You obviously haven't done much research on California, that state has all kinds of wasteful spending and boards and committees up the wazoo. There are a ton of things they could cut before touching the police.

The problem with little games like this is that it can't reflect the basic dynamic of taxes: the amount against which a tax rate is administered changes based on the rate, because high taxes makes people flee to other states or sit on their wealth where they will completely avoid it. Non-participation and exodus both get you nothing on a high tax rate, because 20% on nothing is less than 1% on many people and transactions. Duh. You have to be a complete moron to think that all you need to do is "raise the tax rate" and bam, there's your revenue. But I suppose I just described the majority of America.
 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
3,434
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Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
I basically made almost every cut I could, without raising taxes, budget balanced.

This is too easy

To be fair, it's easy when you're just clicking things in a Flash app that doesn't affect anyone. The decisions get much more difficult when you're actually influencing people's lives.

Still, hard cuts need to be made, before things get even worse.

Actually, I have to wonder if letting the state go bankrupt isn't the best option, long term. Don't addiction counselors say some people have to hit rock bottom before they develop the true will to change? Maybe addiction to gov't needs to be solved the same way.

Perhaps, but we all know the O-Man will never let that happen. He'll step in and give California the rest of the nation's money instead of allowing anything to happen to his friends in the unions or allowing the possibility of people getting off of government hand-out programs.

But the rest of the nation's rapidly going broke as well, so that can only work for so long before it's time to start cutting something somewhere.

That hasn't stopped the O-Team from printing and spending money at record levels yet. ;):(

Spending cuts are the last thing on the Democrats' minds. They would literally raise taxes to 80% of your income if they could feasibly get away with it.
 

Drako

Lifer
Jun 9, 2007
10,697
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Originally posted by: Genx87
I managed to generate a 15 billion dollar surplus.

Me too, with no tax increases. I would lower taxes but there was no option.

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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Way too easy. I cut everything except child welfare and law enforcement and i have a $13.1 billion surplus.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Awesome. I cut $1.7B out of education. Left K14 and community colleges only.

I slashed welfare saving $3.5B.

No more dental.

Bye illegals.

No more health benefits for retirees.

No more teacher pensions.

Furlough.

No more state pensions at all.

In fact, fvck all state employees. That saved a lot.

I have now a $620M deficit, which is meaningless. I got $8B in cuts and $15.4 in taxes. People love taxes in CA anyway, so why not.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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I couldn't do it. I ended up making $2.525 billion in cuts and raised taxes by $7.64 billion and still had a $13,835 billion deficit.

I guess I would have liked it if it had been possible to do things like:

  • Legalize marijuana completely and tax it. Encourage and advertise "Marijuana Tourism". (This is also part of my Michigan revitalization plan.)

    Legalize prostitution completely and tax it.

    Legalize casino gambling and tax the casinos. Why should Las Vegas and Reno have all the fun?

    Reduce various state employees' pay by $500/year. (At least they still have jobs; lots of people in the private sector have either lost their jobs, had their hours cut, or had their pay reduced.)

    Slightly increase the motel and lodgings taxes (hits tourists slightly).

    Reduce or just eliminate prison terms for illegal drug users.

    Increase the sales tax slightly for some luxury items, etc.

    I also would have upped the gas tax by 5-cents/gallon (but not 23 cents/gallon).

    End all government services for illegal aliens and do what can be done to deport them and prevent them from entering.

    Provide free abortion services for the poor and encourage poor women to have abortions. This would be expensive up-front but would end up producing huge cost savings in the future in terms of reduced welfare, education, and criminal justice costs.

    Encourage the non-working poor to relocate to other states. Offer to provide one-way transportation and moving costs; dump them on other states (mu-ah-haha-hah).
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: bozack
I love these interactive fix the budget tools, always put in place to conditon the masses to feel that the solution has to be higher taxes...

I cut everything I could until I hit zero

The issue is--Is the cut short-sighted? Will the cut prove to be MORE expensive than the expenditure that was cut?
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,943
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Originally posted by: KB
I turned it into a 33 billion surplus but no one would want to live in my version of California. It would be cool if it showed the masses get angry as I cut every program and made taxes unbearable.

There would definitely be rapid growth in the pitchfork industry.
 
D

Deleted member 4644

Oh my god.. I cut so so much.. and I was still 2 billion in deficit. I also raised almost every tax there was.

We are so fucked.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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Cut all free services to undocumented workers and round them up and send them back whereever they came from. Problem solved. The problem is California likes having second class citizens to do construction and cut the grass. So california is stuck paying for its second class citizens. They caused their own problems so let them suffer.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
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Originally posted by: n yusef
Thankfully, none of you are in power.

Whatever, my plan worked out perfectly with minimal social impact. I even left money over in the surplus to give back the welfare grants and fancy health insurance for retirees if someone wanted. ;)
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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I cut everything that I could bring my conscious to do and it was still 11+ billion in the red.

:shocked:
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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Make California work :

Legalize + Tax Casinos (slash some of the billions going to Nevada)
Legalize + Tax MJ
Close the Mexican border
Full deportation of illegals
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,934
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Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
I cut everything that I could bring my conscious to do and it was still 11+ billion in the red.

:shocked:

That is what happens when you spend a decade in the red and living in debt while still honoring yearly spending increases.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: n yusef
Thankfully, none of you are in power.

You really don't like idea about legalizing marijuana and taxing it?

What would you do if you were the California government?
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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Originally posted by: Arkaign
Make California work :

Legalize + Tax Casinos (slash some of the billions going to Nevada)

What? They didn't do something as obvious as that years ago?!? That goes on my list, too.
 

Superrock

Senior member
Oct 28, 2000
467
1
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I made most of my cuts into the prison system. Man no matter how you look at it, California is going to have to make some drastic changes.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
I cut everything that I could bring my conscious to do and it was still 11+ billion in the red.

:shocked:

That is what happens when you spend a decade in the red and living in debt while still honoring yearly spending increases.

Yep as someone else said its 50.1% to increase spending but you need 66% to increase fees/taxs.

Should be the other way around IMO. If you have a hard time increasing spending then you will have no need to really increase fees/taxs.
 

n yusef

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2005
2,158
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Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: n yusef
Thankfully, none of you are in power.

You really don't like idea about legalizing marijuana and taxing it?

What would you do if you were the California government?

I agree with drug legalization.

I was mainly referring to the people who want to privatize schools, cut heath care, deport every undocumented immigrant, etc.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
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Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Make California work :

Legalize + Tax Casinos (slash some of the billions going to Nevada)

What? They didn't do something as obvious as that years ago?!? That goes on my list, too.
http://igs.berkeley.edu/library/htIndianGaming.htm

California Gaming, 2004
During the recall campaign candidate Schwarzenegger called on California's gaming tribes to contribute more of their gambling revenue to the state, 25% of which would translate into $1.25 billion/year. However, in his first state budget Governor Schwarzenegger projected revenues from the tribes of only $500 million. Tribes currently pay about $130 million into two state funds to help tribes that have no gambling operations.

On January 7, 2004, Governor Schwarzenegger appointed a former appeals court judge and Governor Wilson's chief counsel, Daniel Kolkey, to renegotiate compacts with casino-owning tribes. One of the critical negotiating issues was whether to increase the number of slot machines allowed per tribe in return for more state revenue from gaming operations. Under existing compacts each tribe was limited to 2,000 slot machines which could pay up to $300/day/machine.

While Kolkey negotiated with the tribes, a coalition of eleven California card clubs and five California racetracks qualified an initiative for the November 2004 ballot, the "Gambling Revenue Act of 2004," which became Proposition 68. Proposition 68 would require all 53 gambling tribes to pay 25% of their net slot machine revenue to the state. Refusal by even one tribe to pay would trigger a provision allowing racetracks and card clubs to install slot machines at their sites, thus breaking the tribes' monopoly on casino-style gambling. The racetracks and card clubs would pay 33% of their revenues, estimated to be about $1 billion/year, into a trust fund which would support law enforcement, firefighters, and programs serving abused children.

The tribes countered this measure on two fronts. Several tribes agreed to spend $1.5 million each to defeat the measure in November, and the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians qualified a competing November initiative measure, the "Indian Gaming Fair-Share Revenue Act of 2004," which became Proposition 70. This initiative would require the gaming tribes to pay 8.84%/year in taxes on their gambling revenue, equal to the state's corporate tax rate, and would remove all limits on the scope and size of gambling the tribes could offer in their casinos. Governor Schwarzenegger initially took no public stand on the two ballot measures, then announced his opposition to both.

On June 21, 2004, Governor Schwarzenegger announced a set of compacts with five leading gaming tribes. The governor took the position that the new compacts were a better deal for the gaming tribes and California taxpayers than the two November ballot propositions. The compacts preserve the tribes' monopoly on casino-style gambling, but require the tribes to make an initial $1 billion payment to the state, which Schwarzenegger pledged to allocate to transportation, and thereafter annual payments estimated to range between $150 million and $275 million. Under the compacts tribes may exceed the 2000 limit on the number of slot machines, but must pay increasingly more to do so. Tribes must also submit to various environmental, labor relations, and building safety constraints. Significantly, tribes must abide by binding arbitration in certain kinds of disputes with local governments and customers. The compacts were approved by the state legislature, as all such compacts must be. The governor negotiated five additional compacts in August 2004, and the legislature approved all but one involving a controversial casino expansion in the city of San Pablo. Voters rejected both Propositions 68 or 70 in the November 2004 election. The passage of either proposition would have undone all of the compacts negotiated by the governor. See the related Hot Topic, Propositions 68 & 70: Tribal Gaming, for more on the two propositions.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
simple. just let homeless people & people on welfare live on state land - after
cutting off the welfare check. let them farm & enjoy the fruits of the earth,
and multiply boutifully (j/k about that last part).

one of the reasons people survived without welfare in the old days is because
they could get a piece of land somewhere for free (e.g. the "40 acres & a mule"
program after the Civil War - disclaimer, i am hazy on my Civil War history).

so i think the Governator should bring back 40 acres & a mule, except maybe
make it 10 acres and a goat

also I think Larry Ellison would pay $1 billion for Alcatraz so they should just
sell it to him.

and i would suggest giving Nancy Pelosi a residence in San Quentin. her crime
being that she didn't even try to impeach Bush.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Superrock
I made most of my cuts into the prison system. Man no matter how you look at it, California is going to have to make some drastic changes.

You should take a look at the Michigan budget where more money ends up getting spent on prisons than on education.