Can you ban smoking outdoors?

[Journer]

Originally posted by: waggy
heh banning it outdoors around here would be a waste. considering most people around here work outside (farming area). Not to mention all the yard burning, crap the put on the fields (man that crap stinks!) etc.

a little cigarate is nto going to bother anyone heh.

exactly why this should be controlled by local laws.

on top of all this, how they hell are they supposed to enforce smoking laws? I mean, is a cop really going to walk up to you and write you a ticket for smoking? Shouldn't he/she be arresting drunk drivers and people that are actually hurting others?

 

[Scarpozzi]

The ban can certainly stop the sale of tobacco products. That may not eliminate it, but it will definitely deter it and cause a lot of tobacco marts to spring up right outside the limits of the ordinance.

 

[TruePaige]

..I hate people that try and ban things.

 

[Hacp]

I saw this guy smoking a joint right in front of his daughter. I told him that he should," 1- Be ashamed of himself, and 2-Look out for the police. "

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
..I hate people that try and ban things.

they should ban banning things.

 

[j00fek]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Sure you could ban it. You can pass a law for any stupid little thing you have a bug up your ass for if you can get enough people to go along with you.

Enforcing it would be another matter. I doubt you could effectively enforce a stupid law like this.

pwnt

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: sdifox
I would rather the guvernment go after the big polluters than smokers.

:thumbsup: There are bigger fish to fry, but in truth it's usually outside organizations working things like this onto the bills. It would be great if that effort could go to bigger things, but I have to say, since the public (indoor) smoking ban in Ohio started, I can only hope that other places follow suit. It didn't even take a few months before the whole thing died down and people just accepted it. It's great.

Originally posted by: Torghn
I wouldn't have a problem with smokers if they wouldn't litter so much. I have no idea what percentage of smokers litter but my guess is it's really high based on the huge volume of cigarette butts laying around.

:thumbsup: I'm annoyed everytime I see someone flick a cigarette butt onto the ground or out their car windows. It's no different than any other piece of trash; but to be truthful, it's not that surprising that people have no problem trashing their environment when they just filled their body with toxic substances.

Originally posted by: wetcat007
A few college campuses I believe banned it anywhere on campus, even outside.

I entirely support this. A college near me banned smoking everywhere but the parking lots and roadways leading to them. All universities should pride themselves on the look of their campuses and having cigarette butts all over and sandy ash trays and "smoker's oasis's" everywhere is not pretty.

Originally posted by: pcnerd37
As far as the alcoholic beverages being good for your health, yes some studies say its good for your heart, but its still bad for you liver. A large percentage of alcoholic beverage consumers do not always consume in moderation, at which point you are endangering others around them. Clearly the cops cant catch every idiot that drinks and drives, but by charging higher amounts for alcohol through taxes, it will be less financially feasible to drink large amounts and put others in jeopardy. If you consider all of the people that have been killed in alcohol related incidents, it far outweighs the few positive effects on the heart from drinking in moderation.

If you could harm yourself without having an effect on others, that is one thing, but until you can smoke without harming others, your argument is baseless.

I'm with you on the smoking part. But taxing alcohol to absurd amounts won't change things. How many people do you know that go to bars with a budget of how much they can spend on drinks? People don't go out and think to themselves "Gee, I shouldn't get another beer because I'm spending too much money"... they think "I'm having a good time, I'll get another drink." I would LOVE to see the data that backs up your statement "A large percentage of alcoholic beverage consumers do not always consume in moderation". What do we consider "Large"? Your last statement truly contradicts your entire alcohol argument, as there are probably millions of people who drink on any given day without harming other people, but with your assumptions you are implying that they are not responsible and should be taxed.

No matter what you seem to be dreaming about, people who want to drink, will. People who drink too much and get behind the wheel of a car won't be stopped because they have to pay $1 extra for per beer. But all in all, you're dodging the point of the thread by trying to point guilt in another direction with YOUR baseless arguments. You have no data, studies, surveys to show that people will drink less if charged more, a large amount of people that drink end up drunk driving, or anything you've said outside of your opinion.


For the record, I'm all about indoor smoking bans. But outdoor is stupid. I just wish people wouldn't toss their butts on the ground.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Journer

Originally posted by: pcnerd37

Originally posted by: Journer
these fucking towns full of soccer moms and crazies need to stop violating store owners rights. it should be 100% illegal to ban smoking on private property. Someone owns that fucking store, not the public. If the majority of people want to ban it in all public areas, whatever, thats their choice, but telling a restaurant/bar owner his/her customers cant smoke in THEIR establishment is communism.

It appears that somebody needs to remind you that just because you have the deed to a property in your name, it does not mean your are your own country that gets to do whatever you want. You are still subject to the government. If you don't like this fact, go buy your own island where nobody will bother you and you cant bother anybody.

It is NOT communism. The governments purpose is to protect the well-being of its citizens, not to keep you from being stupid. When your stupidity interferes with the well-being of others, then its the governments job to step in and say you cannot do that. This has little to do with the concept of ownership as it does promoting the well-being of the public.

it seems like you need to think about what you JUST wrote. I agree 100% with what you said (in the first paragraph), which was essentially, you can do whatever you want, AS LONG AS, you don't infringe upon the rights of another. I.E. you cannot pollute air/water around your house because it will effect your neighbors.

the governments purpose is to maintain society by means that are constitutional. basically, the government needs to take care of the things that people do when they infringe on other's rights.

the person that owns the property has the RIGHT to choose what is done on the property, as long as what is being done is constitutional. just because you have the ability to come and go into a business (assuming they haven't banned you, which is also legal) you are not allowed to choose what the business does unless you own it. if you dont like that the person is doing there, then leave. no one is forcing you to be there. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO EAT AND DRINK IN SOMEONE'S PRIVATE BUSINESS OR HOME. so if you dont like smoke and they dont mind it, just go somewhere else or express your concerns to the owner.

now, in public, this is completely different. you do have the right to be in public areas unless you are being unlawful. therefore, such issues are best controlled by local laws.

I completely understand what you are saying. I really do. But (and this is a serious question) if you own the property and nobody should tell you what to do with it, then why should you pay property taxes? Would it be fair if the water and electric companies just told you they don't want to serve you for whatever reason? Why can the government force you to pay taxes on cigarettes in the first place?

 

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally posted by: Torghn
I wouldn't have a problem with smokers if they wouldn't litter so much. I have no idea what percentage of smokers litter but my guess is it's really high based on the huge volume of cigarette butts laying around.

I wouldn't have a problem with smokers either...if they didn't litter the butts around everywhere, toss them out of their cars lit, have no consideration for kids/others who don't smoke, paid 10 times more in health insurance rather than the measly 5 or 10% some health plans charge, paid more in taxes, acknowledge that they are knowingly killing themselves as well as their spouses/friends/children/etc, and sign away any recourse to sue the tobacco companies when they are wheezing and coughing chunks of lung up as the final stages of cancer wracks their bodies...I could go on and on. I got no problems with people enjoying their right to smoke...

At my job, a group of non-smokers managed to get the smoking area moved from near the entry and exit doors of our office buildings to a place far away out in an area just off the parking lot. Pissed a lot of smokers off because now when it rains or is very cold, they have a hard decision to make ROFLMAO. Many have bucked the system and fired up outside the designated area and ended up in HR because of it. I just laugh as I am walking in through fresh air now rather than someone else's second-hand, cancer-filled poison and see them huddled up in the new "smoking area".

 

[uallas5]

My biggest problem with all the smoking debates is that everyone always views this as a cigarette problem when in fact ALL tobacco products are affected. This means that someone like that has 1 or 2 cigars a week are lumped in with the cigarette smokers and the stupid restrictions like this that are meant for them. Would I spark up a nice Cuban while I'm standing outside a building for 3 minutes? Obviously not. But can I go to a bar and smoke one, only if it's one of the VERY few in my state (MA) that are allowed to have them. So that means my back deck is one of the few places I can go.

Others here complain about the litter. Again not my problem as, other than the little paper band, a cigar is rolled leaves. That's it. If I take off the band, put it out and throw it in under a tree its no more littering than the leaves that fell off that tree.

And if you have a problem with me smoking smoking outside my house, get the fck off my yard you're trespassing.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan

Originally posted by: Torghn
I wouldn't have a problem with smokers if they wouldn't litter so much. I have no idea what percentage of smokers litter but my guess is it's really high based on the huge volume of cigarette butts laying around.

I wouldn't have a problem with smokers either...if they didn't litter the butts around everywhere, toss them out of their cars lit, have no consideration for kids/others who don't smoke, paid 10 times more in health insurance rather than the measly 5 or 10% some health plans charge, paid more in taxes, acknowledge that they are knowingly killing themselves as well as their spouses/friends/children/etc, and sign away any recourse to sue the tobacco companies when they are wheezing and coughing chunks of lung up as the final stages of cancer wracks their bodies...I could go on and on. I got no problems with people enjoying their right to smoke...

At my job, a group of non-smokers managed to get the smoking area moved from near the entry and exit doors of our office buildings to a place far away out in an area just off the parking lot. Pissed a lot of smokers off because now when it rains or is very cold, they have a hard decision to make ROFLMAO. Many have bucked the system and fired up outside the designated area and ended up in HR because of it. I just laugh as I am walking in through fresh air now rather than someone else's second-hand, cancer-filled poison and see them huddled up in the new "smoking area".

I smoke but am considerate of others, I DO NOT through cigs out my car window and put them out in an ashtray.
Some folks drink beer and toss the emptys all over, but that does not mean everyone who drinks beer acts
irresponsibly. I also agree with indoor smoking rules, they just make sense as patrons should be allowed to
enjoy their meals, shopping, ect. without second hand smoke. Please, though, don't start whining about the 5
seconds of tobacco you smell as you enter a building like you've been terrorized. What in the hell would you do
if a fire broke out and smoke was everywhere?? Oh, I forgot PC woosies have hyperbolic chambers at home
if this happens..

 

[Alistar7]

Smokers do pay alot more in taxes, it is one of the most heavily taxed items on the market. If they ever abolish them your taxes will go up, then you will complain about that.
I am a smoker, but I think they should be removed from the market. It is the only product that used in the manner intended, will kill you. They have circumvented oversight by the FDA by claims of being a completely natural product, and by large contributions to the political parties. Tired of hearing people complaining about 2nd hand smoke, do you realize how many other toxins you inhale daily? Why are those so unimportant?

But if they don't have the balls to do what is right and remove them from the market, they should at least use some common sense. We should be able to smoke inside a building, if you want fresh air, you go outside...

 

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

I smoke but am considerate of others, I DO NOT through cigs out my car window and put them out in an ashtray.
Some folks drink beer and toss the emptys all over, but that does not mean everyone who drinks beer acts
irresponsibly. I also agree with indoor smoking rules, they just make sense as patrons should be allowed to
enjoy their meals, shopping, ect. without second hand smoke. Please, though, don't start whining about the 5
seconds of tobacco you smell as you enter a building like you've been terrorized. What in the hell would you do
if a fire broke out and smoke was everywhere?? Oh, I forgot PC woosies have hyperbolic chambers at home
if this happens..

Your logic is so fvcked up. Are you married? Do you have kids? Do you smoke in the house near them or in the car with them? If, like many smokers, you do then you are slowly killing them. You just could give two shits because as long as the house isn't on fire then there's no way second-hand smoke is bad for you. Moron. There are tons of studies indiating second-hand smoke is extrememly cancerous, if not more so than what you're taking into your black lungs. There is no question that breathing your exhaled shit day in and day out while you stand and puff out your poison isn't detrimental to people's health. It is clear from your comments that you are as inconsiderate as I've made most smokers out to be.

You know what...I'll not whine about having to walk through your cloud of shit because I don't have to any longer. Now, I get to watch smokers get wet trying to run out to the designated smoking area when its raining. I get to watch them boiling in the oppressive heat during the summer as they stand outside AWAY from the door. Now I get to hear them talk about how hard it is on them to smoke...yeah, cry me a river and enjoy your smokes where I don't have to deal with them.

I can't wait until the day when smokers start paying their fair share of health-related costs so that we don't have to pick that tab up too. A measly 5% or 10% above what non-smokers pay just doesn't cut it considering the burden smokers put on the health-care industry. Make it so that if they want the right to enjoy their habit then they should pay for what their habit causes.

 

[Xavier434]

People need to get over petty crap like this and just deal with it. I am a non-smoker, but I am very much pro freedom and pro compromise. Us Americans can be really selfish bastards sometimes. Life would be so much better in this country if everyone just didn't sweat the little things and focused on the stuff that really makes a difference. Not to mention how much more effective our tax dollars would be spent if people did this. I wonder how much money will be spent from start to finish when it comes to this new law whether it passes or not?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan
Your logic is so fvcked up. Are you married? Do you have kids? Do you smoke in the house near them or in the car with them? If, like many smokers, you do then you are slowly killing them. You just could give two shits because as long as the house isn't on fire then there's no way second-hand smoke is bad for you. Moron. There are tons of studies indiating second-hand smoke is extrememly cancerous, if not more so than what you're taking into your black lungs. There is no question that breathing your exhaled shit day in and day out while you stand and puff out your poison isn't detrimental to people's health. It is clear from your comments that you are as inconsiderate as I've made most smokers out to be.

You know what...I'll not whine about having to walk through your cloud of shit because I don't have to any longer. Now, I get to watch smokers get wet trying to run out to the designated smoking area when its raining. I get to watch them boiling in the oppressive heat during the summer as they stand outside AWAY from the door. Now I get to hear them talk about how hard it is on them to smoke...yeah, cry me a river and enjoy your smokes where I don't have to deal with them.

I can't wait until the day when smokers start paying their fair share of health-related costs so that we don't have to pick that tab up too. A measly 5% or 10% above what non-smokers pay just doesn't cut it considering the burden smokers put on the health-care industry. Make it so that if they want the right to enjoy their habit then they should pay for what their habit causes.

You make posts like this all the time man. You seriously need to get over this whole "It's my way or the highway" thing you got going on. People are different and that will never change. Learn to get along with them and compromise more. Life's too short for petty conflicts.

 

[TheFamilyMan]

I don't have a "my way or the highway" thing. I know people are different and that won't change. The bottom line is getting along does mean compromise. I want to continue to breathe fresh air and they want to continue to smoke; there is a compromise...pay for what your habit does and go smoke away from the entrances. Period.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan
.

^that was a good idea.

i know you want to save the planet from the forces of evil, but we've got the picture and you can take a rest from it now. at least on this board.

 

[fisheerman]

if they don't ban smoking outside im going to start a class action suit

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan
I don't have a "my way or the highway" thing. I know people are different and that won't change. The bottom line is getting along does mean compromise. I want to continue to breathe fresh air and they want to continue to smoke; there is a compromise...pay for what your habit does and go smoke away from the entrances. Period.

I don't think it really sucks a lot out of health insurance to the point where if all Americans suddenly stopped smoking then we would see a noticeable difference in cost or quality. Most people who receive health benefits for smoking way too long have already been paying for health insurance for many many years. These people often just go through the typical costs of cancer treatment until they die. Everyone goes through some kind of treatment like that before they die whether they are smokers or not. Think of it as cashing in on all your past payments which were not used for you in the past at the end of your life. Granted, you got your low risk and your high risk customers in terms of how much health insurance they use, but that's part of the business. It won't change. We could make the exact same argument here about nutrition and exercise and it still won't change anything.

So again, it's better to just let go of these petty conflicts and move on. Everyone already knows that smoking is bad for you just like everyone knows they should eat well and exercise. There is nothing more we can do that will really help.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: fisheerman
if they don't ban smoking outside im going to start a class action suit

do you want a tie to go with that class action suit?

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan
I don't have a "my way or the highway" thing. I know people are different and that won't change. The bottom line is getting along does mean compromise. I want to continue to breathe fresh air and they want to continue to smoke; there is a compromise...pay for what your habit does and go smoke away from the entrances. Period.

Yes, I'm married and we both smoke outside the house, If you bothered to read my post
I SUPPORT indoor smoking bans!. Your exposure to second hand smoke was what, 5 sec.
twice a day? and outdoors at that!. At some point self-righteousness overcomes common
sense, your breathing many, many times more bad stuff every day from other sources.
I'd hate to be in a car with you if got behind a smoky diesel you'd freak out like rain man
if that happened...

 

[Keblerelf04]

Originally posted by: pcnerd37
Im too lazy to mess with all kinds of quotes, so here it goes...

Explain to me how hurting the health of others around you and the environment in your slow suicide is constitutional.

As far as the alcoholic beverages being good for your health, yes some studies say its good for your heart, but its still bad for you liver. A large percentage of alcoholic beverage consumers do not always consume in moderation, at which point you are endangering others around them. Clearly the cops cant catch every idiot that drinks and drives, but by charging higher amounts for alcohol through taxes, it will be less financially feasible to drink large amounts and put others in jeopardy. If you consider all of the people that have been killed in alcohol related incidents, it far outweighs the few positive effects on the heart from drinking in moderation.

The problem with the fast food, candy and stuff argument, that is completely bogus and you know it. With some willpower, you can control the amount of food that you eat and what kind of food that you eat. If you have two big macs instead of one, that has no effect on me. If you are smoking, you have no control of where the smoke goes. Without being able to control it, it will have an effect on others. Endangering yourself is one thing, but endangering other people because of your lack of will power is a completely different issue.

If you could harm yourself without having an effect on others,And the number 1 thing that that is one thing, but until you can smoke without harming others, your argument is baseless.

Please argue your points logically, not fanatically.

Support PCnerd37 for President, seriously thats the first thing I've read on this page that makes sense. Ok, so maybe a smoking outside ban is a little extreme, make it into a $50 fine if you are within 15feet of anyone who is not smoking, that gives you the chance to kill yourself slowly, without harming anyone else, and if you don't follow through with it, $50 fine, pay up =)
Also this should be titled "Smoker's Remorse" and if non smokers are walking towards you while you are smoking, it is your priority to move away.

I also think we should raise cig taxes up to about $4.50 per pack, so it'd be around $7 a pack, that would make a lot of people quit, and it would help our country's deficit go away very fast.

and the number 1 thing that needs to go is smoking in your own house...seriously parents get the hell over yourself and realize you have kids in the house who are going to die from inhaling that stuff because you couldnt take 30 seconds to walk out of the freaking house.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Yes, I'm married and we both smoke outside the house, If you bothered to read my post
I SUPPORT indoor smoking bans!. Your exposure to second hand smoke was what, 5 sec.
twice a day? and outdoors at that!. At some point self-righteousness overcomes common
sense, your breathing many, many times more bad stuff every day from other sources.
I'd hate to be in a car with you if got behind a smoky diesel you'd freak out like rain man
if that happened...

Sad but true. Just another reason why this whole thing is a waste of time and tax money. Why is it so hard to attack a problem at its core these days? Making the tobacco plant go extinct will not get us clean air to breath.