Can you answer this math question?

tecumseh

Banned
Dec 3, 2001
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The Empire State Building is approximately 1,250 feet tall. Suppose you were to take a single sheet of paper and fold it in half. Then fold it in half again. Do it again!! And again!! How many times would you have to fold the paper to reach a stack that was above the height of the Empire State Building?



How the hell would you solve this question? My partner said that since a piece of paper is half an inch (0.5) you would times that by 1,250. Is she right? Thsi question has got us stumped!!! :|


How would you solve this question? Show your answer!!


:D
 

flot

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2000
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You're wrong, because every time you fold it, you'll be folding more layers... think about it, grab a sheet of paper and start folding, and count how many folds you get....
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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<< My partner said that since a piece of paper is half an inch >>



That's some damned thick paper.

Russ, NCNE
 

tecumseh

Banned
Dec 3, 2001
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Actually my fault, we were talking about dividing 1,250/0.5, instead of multiplying. But I don't know. Does a single sheet of paper equal half an inch?

:confused:
 

JMaster

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2000
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oh you're right! I forgot about that, stupid me... Sad that I took 8 quarters of math too...
Umm...
Is it... (.5 inches)2^n = 1250 and solve for n?
 

Soccer55

Golden Member
Jul 9, 2000
1,660
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How is the paper being used to make the stack? Are you folding it in half and measuring the thickness? If so, the thickness would double on each fold from the previous one. So at the start, the thickness would be say .5 Then after 1 fold, the thickness would be 1, after 2 folds the thickness would be 2 (because you double the 1 not the .5) and so on. then you just have to figure out how many folds it would take to get to 1,250 (or figure out an equation to solve for the number of folds). Hope this helps.

-Tom

EDIT: If this is supposed to be measured using the thickness of the paper, I'd look up the actual thickness of a piece of paper instead of using .5
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
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81
It's not answerable.

Why?

let's jump straight to the 12th fold, you now have 4096 layers

(1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024-2048-4096)

You ever try to fold 4096 layers? You can't do it.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
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Um, you can't do that. I know this sounds stupid as fcuk, but you can only fold a piece of paper in half eight times or less. Try it. You'll never make it past eight.
 

JMaster

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2000
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Russ is right, that's more like a piece of plywood. I'd say a sheet of paper is about.. 1/4 mm? Guestimation..
 

Alphathree33

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2000
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Look

1 fold = 1 inch
2 folds = 2 inch
3 folds = 4 inch
4 folds = 8 inch

Therefore it is a geometric series where tn = 2^(n - 1)

Since we want (1250 feet x 12 inches / foot), we know

tn = 1250(12)

Therefore

1250(12) = 2^(n-1)

Now you just use logarithms to solve for n, i.e. the number of times you have to fold it.
 

Alphathree33

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2000
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But your estimate for the thickness of a piece of paper is waaaaaaaaaay off. :)

My equation works for your estimate, though.
 

tecumseh

Banned
Dec 3, 2001
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"Um, you can't do that. I know this sounds stupid as fcuk, but you can only fold a piece of paper in half eight times or less. Try it. You'll never make it past eight."

Oh you can do this problem. We got into a big argument in class about this, and our professor has constantly stated that this problem can be solved. You just have to think out of the box.
 

Logix

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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Is this a math question, or more of a logic question? You could solve it mathematically and get some answer, but of course, as lirion said, in reality you can only fold a single sheet of paper in half about seven times.
 

KEV1N

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2000
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I watched an episode of Mr. Wizard when I was a kid, and he said you cannot fold any sheet of paper in half more than 7 times. Try it!
 

Alphathree33

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2000
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<< "Um, you can't do that. I know this sounds stupid as fcuk, but you can only fold a piece of paper in half eight times or less. Try it. You'll never make it past eight."

Oh you can do this problem. We got into a big argument in class about this, and our professor has constantly stated that this problem can be solved. You just have to think out of the box.
>>



If this is a university math class and you guys are struggling with the most basic geometric sequence possible, that's really sad.
 

tecumseh

Banned
Dec 3, 2001
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Alphathree33:

My partner stated that a single sheet of white paper is half an inch. But I doubted that. :) Maybe it's a quarter of an inch?

This question has gotten me frustrated! :|

Nice answer though, alpha. I'll have to ask my partner about that one when I see her this weekend.
 

Qacer

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2001
2,721
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Let's use an 8x11 paper. Assuming that you can uniformly fold the paper equally in half at max 7 times, then the thickness would be:

1st fold: .5 + .5 = 1.0
2nd fold: 1.0 + 1.0 = 2.0
3rd fold: 2.0 + 2.0 = 4.0
4th fold: 4.0 + 4.0 = 8.0
5th fold: 8.0 + 8.0 = 16.0
6th fold: 16.0 + 16.0 = 32.0
7th fold: 32.0 + 32.0 = 64.0

So, you would have 64.0 inch. Damn. That's pretty thick. Let's assume that you are Superman. Also, let's assume that this is for the first set of fold and you're folding it half on the longer side (11). Now, say that you can fold it 2 more times on the shorter side (8).

1st fold: 64.0 + 64.0 = 128
2nd fold: 128 + 128 = 256

Now you'll have a paper that's 256 inches long! Then, all you have to do is convert it to feet, divide it with the building's height, then multiply your answer with the total number of folds. In this case, we have 9 folds.




Here's an interesting answer:

An interesting question! I tried this myself several times with different
kinds of paper and stuff, and here are my results. With an ordinary sheet
of paper, I could only get seven folds-in-half out of it. With a Kleenex, I
got eight. With a piece of tissue paper, I got nine folds, and with a big
bed blanket, I got six folds.

So what does this all mean? How does it relate to math? Well, here's the
deal. See, every time you fold the paper in half, you're making a new
structure whose thickness is twice the thickness of the previous structure.
So you can see that the thickness is going to get REALLY big, REALLY
FAST. That's the important thing here; when it gets too thick, you can't
fold it in half anymore.

This is an example of what we mathematicians call a Geometric Sequence.
Each term in the sequence is twice as big as the term before it. So we call
this a Geometric Sequence with common ratio 2. That just means that if
you take any term in the thickness sequence and divide it by the previous
term, you'll get 2.

Have you ever heard of the chessboard-rice problem? If you put one grain
of rice in the first square on a chessboard, and then two grains on the next
one, four on the next, eight on the next, then sixteen, etc., how many
grains of rice will there be on the last square? Or even on the fifteenth
square? As it turns out, there will be A LOT OF RICE! A way big huge
amount. And I'm not kidding. Geometric growth is fast.

Another interesting thing about this problem is that you'll get basically
the same number of folds no matter what kind of sheet you use. I mean,
I got 6, 7, 8, and 9 folds when I used vastly different materials. It's not
like we were getting twenty or thirty folds, or only two or three; they
were all around seven or eight. Which tells you something: the starting
thickness really doesn't affect things very much. The mathematician
would say that the first term of a Geometric Sequence doesn't affect its
growth rate very much. For instance, if you started with a piece of paper
that was twice as thick, you should be able to fold it one fewer time.
Not half as many times, but only one fewer. That's not much difference.

So that's what I have to say about paper folding. Actually, that's not ALL
I have to say; I'm kind of an origami nut. But that'll have to do for now.
You might think about the following questions: How does the size
(length and width) of the paper affect how many times you can fold it?
How many times could you fold it in thirds? In fifths?

Anyway, thanks for the question. Write back if you have more!

-Ken "Dr." Math

 

Alphathree33

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2000
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<< Well theoretically if you CAN fold a paper more than 8 times in half you can do it.
Alpha's method sounds right but how bout this?

Thickness of paper = T
Number of Folds = N

0 N = T
1 N = 2T
2 N = 4T
3 N = 8T
... etc
T = N^2

Since your final T = 1,250 feet, you have the equation
T = N^2
1,250 = N^2

Hmmm... I have a feeling I'm wrong somewhere though..
>>




No where are you taking into account the fact that 1 inch does not equal 1 foot nor are you considering that the thickness of the paper is 0.5 inches so at 1 N folds, its thickness is 1, not 2 as you have written.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
I reiterate my answer above. Nevertheless, the answer you are looking for is:

2^n = 1250/x

n=# of folds
x= thickness of paper in feet.

determine the thickness of the paper and solve for n
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
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I weep for the poor math skills of some people ;) I'm no math whiz, but damn. You need to know how thick this paper is. Each time you fold it doubles this. If it is 1 mm you fold it twice and it is now 4 mm thick. Fold again and it's 8...the thickness grows arithmetically.

BTW half an inch IS thick paper!
 

Alphathree33

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2000
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<< My partner stated that a single sheet of white paper is half an inch. But I doubted that. :) Maybe it's a quarter of an inch? >>



Exactly how stupid do you claim to be?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
1/4 inch is about as thick as a pencil (not too far off). when was the last time you saw a piece of paper that thick!