Can win2k server be a BDC to NT PDC?

[Gantry]

Want to add a win2k server with exchange 2k to an existing network. Already has one server running NT4.0 as a PDC. I would like to simply add the second server as a BDC to the old NT domain. Is this possible?

 

[Abzstrak]

no

 

[Gantry]

That stinks... What would be the best way to add a new Win2k/Exchange2k machine to an exisiting NT DOMAIN? Two things are most important:

1) Having one login to access both the NT server and Exchange2k
2) Redundancy of logins, so if the NT server does go down, the users can still access the Exchange2k server

Are trust relationships by beteen win2k & nt possible? Forgive the ignorance, don't do much work with win2k server...

 

[Nothinman]

Setup an NT 4 BDC for redundancy and make the Win2K box a regular member server.

 

[bozo1]

Gotta setup Active Directory, DNS and all that good stuff for Exchange 2K.

 

[Nothinman]

Actually Bozo1 is right, Exchange 2K requires AD, I forgot about that.

 

[bozo1]

You know, there are ways to do a temporary active directory for Exchange2K that links to your NT 4 domain. Dig around Technet at Microsoft's site - there are documents on how to do this and how to incorporate this setup into your 'real' active directory when you are ready to move to that.

 

[Gantry]

Couldn't find any information on temproary active directories over at technet, nor google. Anyone have any more info or links on how to set this up?

Watched a few demos on technet about mixed nt4 and 2000 environments. I have no problem having the exchange2000 machine becoming the top dog with AD and relagating the nt4 machine to backup duty. The problem I saw was that most of the demos focused on promoting your pdc to win2k/active direcytory and keeping existing functionality on your nt4 bdcs (via the PDC emulator on win2k). This doesn't work for me because I have no BDCs, just the single PDC which is staying as nt4. I guess I can install the new machine as nt4 first, promote to pdc, then install win2k/ad/exchange, but this seems rather clunky. Am I way off base here?

 

[Apatewnas]

Well, this is kinda complicated. When we want an NT server to become BDC we select the specific option during the installation. That's when the newbie BDC is synchronized to the PDC regarding security policies. This is also the point where the newbie BDC acquires a inique SID to distinguish itself across the network. I have never tried to resolve such a problem but my experience teached me not to mess with servers already working properly. The first thing that could go wrong is the SID generation algorithm possibly changing across different versions of OS. Second and very important is the fact that win2k is similar to winnt as an IDEA only! If u really want to use the win2k server use it as a stand alone server and nothing more. The relationship between PDC and BDC is a delicate thing, not something u should tamper with unless ur just experimenting and no data loss is involved.

 

[Saltin]

The problem with questions like this is that you are always going to get two answers.

The first answer is the sensical one. ***No***. I'm of this mind, and so is every other rational admin in the world.

Then you get the fellas who talk about how it "can be done", but provide no

1) Links for proof
2) Steps to make it happen

Now, the original poster asked a valid enough question. So my beef isnt really with him.



<< You know, there are ways to do a temporary active directory for Exchange2K that links to your NT 4 domain >>



I think you are speaking of an ADC connection agreement.
The idea behind this being that it provides a migration path for
1) Exchange 5.5 mailbox accounts
2) NT4 User accounts

So that they can become mailbox enabled 2k active directory user accounts. In no way, shape, or form does this mean that the 2k DC in the Active Directory domain with Exchange 2000 is a BDC to the NT4 domain's PDC.




<< The first thing that could go wrong is the SID generation algorithm possibly changing across different versions of OS. >>



Of all the problems you would face trying to make a 2k DC into a bonafide NT4 BDC, I think "SID generation algorithims" would be the least of your worries.




<< my experience teached me not to mess with servers already working properly >>



Sound's like a good plan friend.

Lets try to keep the advice here decent guys. You are confusing the original poster with your "ideas"

Sorry to rant.

Gantry, it cannot be done. If I am wrong, I am firm in the belief that you would not want to do it anyway.

 

[Gantry]

<<< Gantry, it cannot be done. If I am wrong, I am firm in the belief that you would not want to do it anyway. >>>

I like answers like this when they go my way (smiley), but you'll have to define what "it" is and perhaps I need to simplify. All I want to do is

1) Add a new Exchange2000 server to an existing network with one Windows NT PDC (no exchange server).
2) Have users to be able to login to the network and access both their network app on the NT and their new email server in Exchange mode.

This cannot be done without massive changes to the PDC? I don't care how it is done (meaning the title of the thread). If I have to have two sets of users/groups, so be it...

Hopefully my simplified scenario will yield a simplified solution. Hard to believe I can't make two MS products play nice.

 

[Saltin]

<< ) Add a new Exchange2000 server to an existing network with one Windows NT PDC (no exchange server). >>


Cannot be done. Exchange 2000 requires Active Directory. An NT PDC/BDC is not capable of hosting an Active Directory. Only a 2000 server can do this.



<< Have users to be able to login to the network and access both their network app on the NT and their new email server in Exchange mode. >>



Exchange 2000 isnt like 5.5 at all. There is no such thing as a "mailbox account" in Exchange 2000. There are only mail box enabled users. Those users are objects in the Active Directory. There is no way around this.

You can migrate an Exchange 5.5/NT4.0 domain to a 2000 server/exchange domain, sure. You can do all sorts of things with NT4 and 2000.

You can't do what you want to do though.

Why don't you consider adding Exchange 5.5 into your NT4 domain.

 

[Gantry]

First off Saltin and all, thanks for the help...

Cannot be done. Exchange 2000 requires Active Directory. An NT PDC/BDC is not capable of hosting an Active Directory. Only a 2000 server can do this.

Yet win2k running AD can emulate a PDC for NT4 servers to keep copies of user accounts/groups in the domain (or so I belive). Is there an easy way to get this single NT4 server relagated to BDC duties? If so, I can use the new win2k machine as the PDC and the old server as the BDC. This would give me a unified login..

Why don't you consider adding Exchange 5.5 into your NT4 domain.

I would love to, but it's not going to fly with the people in charge. The biggest obsticle is that MS cuts off support for NT4 (and possibly Exchange) in July of this year and they don't liek the fact they would be spending mucho dinero on a system that won't be officially supported by the time it's installed....

But if there's no way to do it without messing with the current server, then there will have to be a compromise...

 

[Saltin]

<< Yet win2k running AD can emulate a PDC for NT4 servers to keep copies of user accounts/groups in the domain ( >>



You are speaking of the PDC emulator FSMO. Among other things, it handles all downlevel client authentication. It doesnt hold a copy of a legacy NT4 Directory. It just provides a liason between nt4 clients/member servers and the active directory.

 

[DuBobD]

You should take your new server and load it with NT4 as a BDC. Promote it to a PDC and then upgrade it to Win2k/Exchange 2000. The two servers will co-exist as long as the Win2k server is in Mixed mode. The Win2k machine runs as a PDC (emulated) and cannot play the roll of a BDC. So your previous WinNT4 PDC will HAVE to be a BDC. Personally, I recommend upgrading it to Win2k too, unless there is a problem with software compatibility (running on the NT box). That way you can deligate the server roles (PDC Emulator, Schema Master, etc.) to other servers for better redundency.

This is what I would do, take it for what it is worth.

 

[millsy]

You can't install an W2K server as a PDC for a start and without Active Directory there is no chance of using Exchange 2000.

You have to plan and test well before implementing Active Directory and there is a lot to configure.
Especially if you are rolling it out to live users, you certainly want to get it right.