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Can we talk about capital punishment?

Mayne

Mayne

Diamond Member
So I read a story today today about a guy getting the death sentence...basically he was heaving and having a helluva time dying...but he did die. Now everyone is in an uproar over the fact he might might of suffered a bit.

how about the store clerk he shot dead? I don't get this whole uproar crap.

Moved from OT.
admin allisolm
 
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fuck man. He gets 3 needles of whatever they put in them and his victim is killed in cold blood. I just don't get this whole justice system you guys have in the states.


An Alabama inmate coughed repeatedly and his upper body heaved for at least 13 minutes during an execution using a drug that has previously been used in problematic lethal injections in at least three other states.

Ronald Bert Smith Jr., 45, also appeared to move slightly during two tests meant to determine consciousness before he was finally pronounced dead at 11:05 p.m. Thursday — about 30 minutes after the procedure began at the state prison in southwest Alabama.

Alabama uses the sedative midazolam as the first drug in a three-drug lethal injection combination.

Oklahoma’s use of midazolam as the first in a three-drug protocol was challenged after the April 2014 execution of Clayton Lockett, who writhed on a gurney, moaned and clenched his teeth for several minutes before prison officials tried to halt the process. Lockett died after 43 minutes. A state investigation into Lockett’s execution revealed that a failed line caused the drugs to be administered locally instead of into Lockett’s blood.

Ohio and Arizona have used midazolam as the first in a two-drug protocol. Ohio inmate Dennis McGuire repeatedly gasped and snorted over 26 minutes during his January 2014 execution. The state abandoned that method afterward and has yet to resume executions. Arizona halted executions after the July 2014 lethal injection of convicted killer Joseph Rudolph Wood, who took nearly two hours to die.

Smith and other Alabama inmates argued in a court case that the drug was an unreliable sedative and could cause them to feel pain, citing its use in problematic executions. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a challenge by Oklahoma death row inmates that they had failed to prove that the use of midazolam was unconstitutional.

Smith was convicted of capital murder in the Nov. 8, 1994, fatal shooting of Huntsville store clerk Casey Wilson. A jury voted 7-5 to recommend a sentence of life imprisonment, but a judge overrode that recommendation and sentenced Smith to death.

At the beginning of his execution, Smith heaved and coughed repeatedly, clenching his fists and raising his head.

A prison guard performed two consciousness checks before the final two lethal drugs were administered. In a consciousness test, a prison officer says the inmate’s name, brushes his eyelashes and then pinches his left arm. During the first one, Smith moved his arm. He slightly raised his right hand after the second consciousness test.

The meaning of those movements will likely be debated. One of Smith’s attorneys whispered to another attorney, “He’s reacting,” and pointed out the inmate’s repeated movements.

The state prison commissioner said he did not see any reaction to the consciousness tests.

“We do know we followed our protocol. We are absolutely convinced of that,” Alabama Corrections Commissioner Jeff Dunn said Thursday evening.

When asked if the movements indicated there was a problem with the execution, Dunn said: “There will be an autopsy that will be done on Mr. Smith and if there were any irregularities those will hopefully be shown or borne out in the autopsy. I think the question is probably better left to the medical experts.”

Dunn declined to say whether Smith was given an additional dose of midazolam after the first consciousness test.

Just before Thursday night’s execution began, Smith replied, “No ma’am” when asked by the prison warden if he had any final words. A member of Wilson’s family, who was not identified, witnessed the execution. The victim’s family did not make a statement.

Wilson was pistol-whipped and then shot in the head during the robbery, court documents show. Surveillance video showed Smith entering the store and recovering spent shell casings from the bathroom where Wilson was shot, according to the record.

In overriding the jury’s recommendation at the 1995 trial, a judge likened the slaying to an execution, saying Wilson had already been pistol-whipped into submission and Smith ignored his pleas for mercy. Wilson had a newborn infant at the time of his death.

“The trial court described Smith’s acts as ’an execution style slaying.’ Tonight, justice was finally served,” Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange said in a statement after the execution.

U.S. Supreme Court justices twice paused the execution as Smith’s attorneys argued for a delay, saying a judge shouldn’t have been able to impose the death penalty when a jury recommended he receive life imprisonment.

Four liberal justices said they would have halted the execution, but five were needed to do so.

Smith’s attorneys had urged the nation’s highest court to block the planned execution to review the judge’s override.

Smith’s lawyers argued a January decision that struck down Florida’s death penalty structure because it gave too much power to judges raises legal questions about Alabama’s process. In Alabama, a jury can recommend a sentence of life without parole, but a judge can override that recommendation to impose a death sentence. Alabama is the only state that allows judicial override, they argued.

“Alabama is alone among the states in allowing a judge to sentence someone to death based on judicial fact finding contrary to a jury’s verdict,” attorneys for Smith wrote Wednesday.

Lawyers for the state argued in a court filing Tuesday that the sentence was legally sound, and that it is appropriate for judges to make the sentencing decision.

Smith, the son of a NASA contract employee, became an Eagle Scout at 15, but his life spiraled downward because of alcoholism, according to a clemency request to Alabama’s governor. He had a final meal of fried chicken and french fries and was visited during the day by his parents and son.

Alabama has been attempting to resume executions after a lull caused by a shortage of execution drugs and litigation over the drugs used.

The state executed Christopher Eugene Brooks in January for the 1993 rape and beating death of a woman. It was the state’s first execution since 2013. Judges stayed two other executions that had been scheduled this year.
 
What's amazing is that we know EXACTLY how to humanely kill a person - but we won't do it. We have anesthetic for surgery that works (pretty much) every time. We know a large overdose of morphine will take care of it. We know lots of things..... but companies have refused to sell the drugs for that purpose, or doctors have decided they don't want to use particular drugs....

What this really comes down to is this: the people who are against capital punishment are perfectly comfortable making the ones receiving capital punishment suffer if it advances their political agenda to have the process ended. It's really similar to the abortion discussion. It's almost militant in many cases.
 
Pulsar said:
What's amazing is that we know EXACTLY how to humanely kill a person - but we won't do it. We have anesthetic for surgery that works (pretty much) every time. We know a large overdose of morphine will take care of it. We know lots of things..... but companies have refused to sell the drugs for that purpose, or doctors have decided they don't want to use particular drugs....

What this really comes down to is this: the people who are against capital punishment are perfectly comfortable making the ones receiving capital punishment suffer if it advances their political agenda to have the process ended. It's really similar to the abortion discussion. It's almost militant in many cases.
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I don't think it's a 'companies are ethically against the death penalty and therefore refuse to sell the relevant drugs thing', since 1) companies like money and 2) presumably it's a company that sells the drugs used in the mixture to actually kill people. iirc, it's more of a legal bullshit thing where a doctor would have to be the one to administer the dose, and an executioner doesn't have the qualifications to administer a regulated drug to a "patient", so they come up with a workaround.

I think the death penalty has revealed itself to be too carelessly used to continue existing, but if we're going to have a death penalty, I agree that there are plenty of fast, non-convoluted ways to kill people. Bullet to the head sounds fine to me.
 
Pulsar said:
What's amazing is that we know EXACTLY how to humanely kill a person - but we won't do it. We have anesthetic for surgery that works (pretty much) every time. We know a large overdose of morphine will take care of it. We know lots of things..... but companies have refused to sell the drugs for that purpose, or doctors have decided they don't want to use particular drugs....

What this really comes down to is this: the people who are against capital punishment are perfectly comfortable making the ones receiving capital punishment suffer if it advances their political agenda to have the process ended. It's really similar to the abortion discussion. It's almost militant in many cases.
Click to expand...

right so corporations who are ethically against the use of their products being used to administer death are at fault for the administration of death being a poor experience. no, you are an idiot. if the states don't have the means to conduct an execution humanely it is them, and only them, who is at fault for any suffering caused.
 
The problem is it's not legal to OD them on humane drugs.
This is a really fucked up country.

And someone like Dylan Roof deserves a swift and proper execution.
 
Isn't it past time that, as a supposedly advanced first world democratic nation, that we give up capital punishment? It is unevenly applied to the poor and minority groups, occasionally applied to innocents, is expensive to litigate, has little to no effective deterrent value, and is an affront to our moral sensibility as a society.
 
No, no.... I think we will continue shooting people up with extra strong xanax then stopping their hearts. It's the humane thing to do. Think of all the warm cuddly feelings the victims get when they watch their murderers gasping and writhing in death throes for an entire episode of friends. That's why we do this, right? For the ghosts of the victims?


If the justice system was sensible, it would actually be focused on rehabilitation and prevention of future crimes instead of punishment. There are several northern euro countries who have much more sensible justice systems (ones that are actually focused on justice, not punishment). For example, that Norwegian mass-murderer who killed like 80 teenagers or something has a decent cell and an internet connection, but he won't be executed. He will be rehabilitated, forever, at a fraction of the cost of executing him.
 
MovingTarget said:
Isn't it past time that, as a supposedly advanced first world democratic nation, that we give up capital punishment? It is unevenly applied to the poor and minority groups, occasionally applied to innocents, is expensive to litigate, has little to no effective deterrent value, and is an affront to our moral sensibility as a society.
Click to expand...
I agree to a point, but what is the value to society to let someone like dylan roof live, and on the taxpayers dime on top of it? Or is it a question of 'should we reject capital punishment, period, no matter how heinous the crime?'
I'm kinda torn, and to show my really ugly side, I have no issue with someone like roof getting some medieval type of death sentence, drawn and quartered comes to mind.
 
Sheik Yerbouti said:
I agree to a point, but what is the value to society to let someone like dylan roof live, and on the taxpayers dime on top of it? Or is it a question of 'should we reject capital punishment, period, no matter how heinous the crime?'
I'm kinda torn, and to show my really ugly side, I have no issue with someone like roof getting some medieval type of death sentence, drawn and quartered comes to mind.
Click to expand...

The value is we save millions of dollars by incarcerating him for life, while his family don't all have to become victims too and mourn for the loss of their brother/son/nephew/whatever. He still has to live an entire miserable lifetime in prison and likely die 20 years earlier than he would otherwise. It saves more pain, and money, and the only cost is that vengeful people don't get what they think they want. What's so hard to understand?


Oh and I forgot, I guess lawyers lose big time if he isn't executed. So I guess if you're a lawyer, stick to your state sponsored homocide gravy train.
 
FIVR said:
No, no.... I think we will continue shooting people up with extra strong xanax then stopping their hearts. It's the humane thing to do. Think of all the warm cuddly feelings the victims get when they watch their murderers gasping and writhing in death throes for an entire episode of friends. That's why we do this, right? For the ghosts of the victims?


If the justice system was sensible, it would actually be focused on rehabilitation and prevention of future crimes instead of punishment. There are several northern euro countries who have much more sensible justice systems (ones that are actually focused on justice, not punishment). For example, that Norwegian mass-murderer who killed like 80 teenagers or something has a decent cell and an internet connection, but he won't be executed. He will be rehabilitated, forever, at a fraction of the cost of executing him.
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QFT for .10 cent bullets.

80 dead and you make excuses...? Too bad they weren't yours. Too bad for the rest of humanity.

Too bad you won't post your address.

Too bad you're a pussy in a basement.

Too bad the dead weren't yours.

Implied personal threats are over our line.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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Sheik Yerbouti said:
I agree to a point, but what is the value to society to let someone like dylan roof live, and on the taxpayers dime on top of it? Or is it a question of 'should we reject capital punishment, period, no matter how heinous the crime?'
I'm kinda torn, and to show my really ugly side, I have no issue with someone like roof getting some medieval type of death sentence, drawn and quartered comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the far right...Confirmed that you do the crime, take the penalty.

I do mean confirmed though.
 
highland145 said:
QFT for .10 cent bullets.

80 dead and you make excuses...? Too bad they weren't yours. Too bad for the rest of humanity.

Too bad you won't post your address.

Too bad you're a pussy in a basement.

Too bad the dead weren't yours.
Click to expand...

Only 77. You might directly relate to some of his bio, though. What are your opinions on the muslim refugee crisis in Europe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik#Islamophobia

Oh and I forgot, I guess lawyers lose big time if he isn't executed. So I guess if you're a lawyer, stick to your state sponsored homocide gravy train.
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I see we have a lawyer in the thread 😀
 
Your baby sister didn't agree. Did she, basement boy?

Over the line, even for P&N.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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highland145 said:
Welcome to the far right...Confirmed that you do the crime, take the penalty.

I do mean confirmed though.
Click to expand...

but the state has killed innocent people. Imagine your children burning alive and then being put to death because of bunk evidence that showed you killed them. What a horrible thing for the government to do to a citizen.
 
On 22 July 2011, Breivik bombed government buildings in Oslo, which resulted in eight deaths.[75]

Within a few hours of the explosion he arrived at Utøya island, the site of a camp for Worker's Youth League, posing as a police officer in order to take the ferry to the island, and then fired intermittently for more than one hour, killing 69[76][77][78] with one murder victim as young as 14 years old.[79][80][81]

Arrest
When the public force counter-terrorism unit (based in Oslo) arrived on the island and confronted him, he surrendered without resistance.[82] After his arrest, he was held by armed police on the island, and interrogated throughout the night, before being moved to a holding cell in Oslo.

Breivik confessed and said the purpose of the attack was to save Norway and Western Europe from a Muslim takeover, and that the Labour Party had to "pay the price" for "letting down Norway and the Norwegian people.
 
highland145 said:
On 22 July 2011, Breivik bombed government buildings in Oslo, which resulted in eight deaths.[75]

Within a few hours of the explosion he arrived at Utøya island, the site of a camp for Worker's Youth League, posing as a police officer in order to take the ferry to the island, and then fired intermittently for more than one hour, killing 69[76][77][78] with one murder victim as young as 14 years old.[79][80][81]

Arrest
When the public force counter-terrorism unit (based in Oslo) arrived on the island and confronted him, he surrendered without resistance.[82] After his arrest, he was held by armed police on the island, and interrogated throughout the night, before being moved to a holding cell in Oslo.

Breivik confessed and said the purpose of the attack was to save Norway and Western Europe from a Muslim takeover, and that the Labour Party had to "pay the price" for "letting down Norway and the Norwegian people.
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whats your point?
 
JSt0rm said:
but the state has killed innocent people. Imagine your children burning alive and then being put to death because of bunk evidence that showed you killed them. What a horrible thing for the government to do to a citizen.
Click to expand...
U.S.? links.

I do believe people like Nifong should spend life in jail. He got 1 day.
 
Capital punishment is an issue much like abortion, no amount of discussion will ever reach a consensus. Personally,. I believe in capital punishment not, as a deterrent, it's not but, as a clear statement that certain crimes will not be tolerated by our society. I truly believe there are concepts worth killing and dying for. The idea that killing someone who deserves to die is something to be avoided at any cost is abhorrent to me and the worst kind of self deception.
 
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