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Can we speak the truth in today's society?

Riprorin

Banned
For the sake of argument, what if Isalm is in fact a vile, violent religion that promotes and rewards heinous acts of violence against innocent people and it can be proved by examining the life of Muhamed, the history of Islam and the teachings of the Quran.

Would it okay to say this or would you be considered hateful and intolerant?
 
ok, fair question, but answer this, what is (and believe me this is a BIG "WHAT IF") riprorin is just an intolerant troll who is bent on pissing people off? Would it be ok to say so, or would you be labed as hateful and intolerant?
 
It's just like many other stereotypes - many of them are true and everyone knows it, but woe be the one who actually says it.
 
I wasn't talking to you before, but this seems like hatred and divisiveness to me.

Truth is subjective. Who is a human to say that it is not?
 


<< Truth is subjective. Who is a human to say that it is not? >>



Wow, that a loaded statement/question!




<< this seems like hatred and divisiveness to me. >>



If you make a statement based on fact, why do you have to be marginalized just because the statement is controversial or contrary to general opinion?

Doesn't such thinking stifle honest debate?
 


<< Can we speak the truth in today's society? >>



I understand that you're gay, Riprorin, but to be honest with you, I don't think that society would accept it. So I don't think that you should come out of the closet. Sometimes it's better to keep it to yourself. I'm sure the ATOT community will accept you for whatever you choose.😀
 


<< I understand that you're gay, Riprorin >>



Damn, how did you find out. Just don't tell my wife and kids.



<< I'm sure the ATOT community will accept you for whatever you choose. >>



Yes, I'm sure they'll accept me if I come out. It's my other "traits" that I'm worried about.
 
Society has no problem with the truth, it is opinion put forward as truth that is unacceptable.

The same arguements can be made against any religon, polital philosophy, or nation.
 
Society has no problem with the truth, it is opinion put forward as truth that is unacceptable.

The same arguements can be made against any religon, political philosophy, or nation.
 
Well again, what is in a fact? Isn't that also subjective, if not just a synonym for truth? If everyone did not believe themselves to be a seer of facts, would there be humanity have any conflicts at all?
 
Is it any more right to kill in the name of Christianity?
Fanatics are in every group--that does not make the whole group bad.
 


<< Is it any more right to kill in the name of Christianity? >>



No, it is not right to kill in the name of Christianity. Jesus taught to treat others like you would like to be treated (the golden rule), to love your neigbhor as yourself, and to turn the other cheek.

Where do you find teaching in the New Testament that encourages believers to kill?
 
"Where do you find teaching in the New Testament that encourages believers to kill? "
I don't, but other people do. They think that THEIR religion can justify _____, but everyone else is a heathen.
Life's not that simple.
 


<< "Where do you find teaching in the New Testament that encourages believers to kill? " >>




<< I don't, but other people do. They think that THEIR religion can justify _____, but everyone else is a heathen. >>



db, then why don't we indict those individuals that pervert the Christian message rather than the whole Christain faith?
 
db

No, it is plain it doesn't. The Christian Faith is the only one that teaches tolerance and acceptance. Do I need repeat that? Tell me where it says different?

Some will try and twist anything...look at our current circumstances involving Liberalism. The only way they get anything into law is by the Judiciary and not through due process. Look at the ACLU which has a nack for twisting the meaning of every word in the Constitution....

Btw, I do not need a flame suit...
 


<<

<< "Where do you find teaching in the New Testament that encourages believers to kill? " >>




<< I don't, but other people do. They think that THEIR religion can justify _____, but everyone else is a heathen. >>



db, then why don't we indict those individuals that pervert the Christian message rather than the whole Christain faith?
>>



Most of us do. It's flamers, media types and idiots that stereotype groups based on the actions of a few.
 


<< why don't we indict those individuals that pervert the Christian message rather than the whole Christain faith? >>


True. And why don't we indict those individuals that pervert the Islamic message rather than the whole Islamic faith?
 


<< True. And why don't we indict those individuals that pervert the Islamic message rather than the whole Islamic faith? >>



I would like to believe that Islam teaches love, tolerance and non-violence and the actions we witness are the work of a misguided few. I'm not sure that's true though.

I'm no Islamic scholar but here's a few things I've gleaned from reading about Islam:

1. Muslims who are engaged in violence and destruction of anyone who opposes Islam, have ample justification for their actions from the Qur'an and the life and sayings of prophet Muhammad. The prophet of Islam did encourage the killing and intimidation of his enemies, not just in self defense as it is commonly reported by Muslims, but in the promotion of the cause of God and the spread of Islam. When Muslims commit acts of violence claim they can claim they are following the example of their prophet and thus fulfilling the will of God and promoting His cause.

2. When one reads the early accounts of prophet Muhammad's raids and wars, not only one sees no mention of the theme of divine holiness and its opposition to sin, but the primary motivations that one constantly encounters are the looting of the enemies and the obtaining of booty and the spoils of war or the relief and pleasures of Paradise or conquering the enemies and spreading the rule of the prophet. I am not just repeating an old stereotypical charge against Islam. I have just finished reading the most ancient Muslim biography of prophet Muhammad, written by Ibn Ishaq in the second century of the Islamic era (translated by A. Guillaume and published by Oxford University Press in 1955). I truly encourage all Muslims and non-Muslims to read this book to see for themselves the violence in the actions of prophet Muhammad and his early followers.

3. In the Qur'an, we encounter general commands to kill and destroy the enemies of Islam that are applicable for all times and places and people groups. It is beyond dispute that from the earliest times, right after the death of the prophet, Muslim splinter groups began fighting, killing and assassinating even each other, in the name of God. The history of Islam, down to the present day is filled with the appeals of various Muslims to ever-applicable Qur'anic passages to destroy and kill their enemies.

Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/violence.html
 
Um, that website wouldn't have an agenda, would it?
If it's either us or them, obviously they're wrong [/sarcasm].
 
The point is, Tim McVeigh no more represents Christianity than does Osama bin Ladin represent Islam.
But apparently some think otherwise.
 
I'll have to agree with EngineNr9, I don't think there's anything as truth. Just depends on how you want to see the matter, you can spin it anyway you choose.
 
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