They didn't choose to go on the offensive in Iraq. They chose a president who they thought would represent their interests. Keep in mind that I did not vote for Bush. I just can't fully blame some of those that did. In order to choose a person to represent you, there needs to be a degree of trust involved. No one has a crystal ball so we don't have a choice. It is not their fault that the man chose to represent himself and his interests instead of the people.
They didn't choose to go on the offensive in Iraq. They chose a president who they thought would represent their interests. Keep in mind that I did not vote for Bush. I just can't fully blame some of those that did. In order to choose a person to represent you, there needs to be a degree of trust involved. No one has a crystal ball so we don't have a choice. It is not their fault that the man chose to represent himself and his interests instead of the people.
Socialists and communists are not one and the same except to those who do not understand what they really are. For example, Denmark is not a communist society. Cuba is not even a true communist society. Cuba is a very strange blend of communism and facism.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,321
- 126
You are dead wrong!! Sorry about the pun!!
But You have not even given Obama the chance!
I can`t emphasize enough that we should really do as it appearsd Obama will be doing setting out pride aside and attempting to have a meaningful dialogue.
I jusy think you have no clue...less than 2 weeks into ofiice and your already judging the guy!! shese...
Choosing to believe "those of us who pointed out the fallacy of such blind faith" instead is also taking a leap of faith in itself. Don't you get it? Neither those of you who claimed Bush was a bad idea nor those who supported him at the time had a crystal ball to tell us the true future, but one side had to be right and it just so happened that it was the side that both you and I chose to stand on at the time. However, neither one of us were able to foresee what really ended up happening. Sure, we had some theories. We believed it would not turn out well but we didn't see this coming. I can't completely blame those who voted for him to not have seen this future either.
What I expect is for politicians to represent those who voted for them. I don't expect that representation to be perfect, but I sure as hell expect a lot more than what Bush did. Even if the man represented most of his voters in ways that I personally do not support then that still would have been better than what really happened which was him only supporting himself and his special interests along with a small minority of Americans.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
Sure, but coming to terms with the facts which discredit conjecture is discarding faith in favor of reason.
I do get that, which is why I base my position on what is rather than what I hope might be.
I blame them for following fantasies of what they hope to see in the future rather than analysis of present reality, and for making the idiotic leap in logic of thinking one side's predictions had to be right.
Such expectations based on faith in men is exactly what got us into this mess.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I got Bamacre's point just fine, but you've obviously a couple feet of sand over your head which keeps you from doing the same.
Again, "Americans generally have little to no understanding of our foreign policies" which is why "[t]hey are sold on bad ideas, like invading Iraq, and have no understanding of the consequences of other actions, like sanctions killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's while Clinton was in office."
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
- 136
I'll repeat it since you missed it; "People make mistakes and are misinformed at times in their lives, doesn't mean they're always misinformed". You can't always be right, but it does matter when you do change your mind when new/more data arrives. That's why near a supermajority are against the war.
A few Internet laymans won't change anyone's mind, especially when they're poorly educated, from the middle of nowhere, and haven't sniffed the real world. They don't know anything about reality except what they read on the net and watch on YouTube.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
And I'll repeat what I explained above; everyone had the opportunity to avoid "choosing to believe Bush and ignore those of us who pointed out the fallacy of such blind faith." Some of us did just that, and all it took was "coming to terms with the facts which discredit conjecture" which allows "discarding faith in favor of reason" rather than simply picking a side to cheer on.
And here you are discarding reason and spouting conjecture to cheer on your argument. You will nearly always be misinformed as long as you persist in that.
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
- 136
To say Americans' decision to go to Iraq was a decision based on blind faith is a severe oversimlificaiton, not to mention flat out insulting to those who had legit reasons to go to war (such as WMDs). The mistake was in trusting the multitude of reports (from media) that it was a sure thing, a minor sort of in-and-out excursion. Those opposed to it at the same consisted of those legitimately opposed to it based on its merits, and then those other lesser people opposed to Iraq for the same reasons they were opposed to the Civil War; too many people would die in either war. Sadly, the latter describes Ron Paul, who didn't think the Civil War was necessary. His alternative was to let us secede. Brilliant!
I am not engaging in conjecture, the vast majority of Paulbots aren't in fact well educated and are usually from some god forsaken middle of nowhere. Google it, or hell, look up their profiles here.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
The WMDs argument was smoke and mirrors, as was obvious to anyone who doesn't act on blind faith.
There were journalists who pointed out the illusions in the arguments, while the masses simply swallowed flagrant propaganda and followed march to war.
What drives your obsession with such a small fraction of the population, particularly as you excuse far greater numbers for acting like drones?
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
- 136
No, it wasn't "obvious", otherwise there would be been incontrovertible proof that WMDs didn't exist. You had multiple intelligence agencies saying there was a real possibility of WMDs in Iraq. Not "near certainty" as Cheney said, but many different intelligence agencies all said roughly the same stuff. That's reality. The smart representatives erred on the side of caution and voted no on Iraq, as did many Americans.
There were some, sure. I'd like to see which ones you are referring to, though, specifically.
You keep using the terms "sheep" and "drones", favorite terms of Paulbots. It's why I've used said term, especially since that's all this is, a banter between real world and Paulbot world.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
So Evan, where do you work again? What position? I'm excited to see where you get your authority.
http://www.techexams.net/forums/members/evan-lieb.html
Network security, eh? That IS an impressive financial career. Keep up the good work!
http://www.techexams.net/forums/members/evan-lieb.html
Network security, eh? That IS an impressive financial career. Keep up the good work!
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