Can the Xbox 1 or the PS4 handle HDR blu-ray?

[desura]

Via firmware update? Or will a future refresh be able to handle that video?

 

[KentState]

I thought it was tied to HDMI bandwidth? Is the 1.4 standard designed for HDR?

 

[Lil Frier]

A quick Internet search says 2.0a is the HDMI standard that added HDR.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Heck, are we getting true 1080P games yet?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Via firmware update? Or will a future refresh be able to handle that video?

They cannot play UHD Blu-Ray and we don't know if they will release a revision that can. My guess is no. It requires HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 which neither of the consoles have. Not to mention a new drive.

Sony hasn't even officially announced a stand alone UHD Blu-Ray player yet. Most likely because the chips to process the Dolby Vision metadata at the player level are not available yet.

 

[jeff_rigby]

They cannot play UHD Blu-Ray and we don't know if they will release a revision that can. My guess is no. It requires HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 which neither of the consoles have. Not to mention a new drive.

Sony hasn't even officially announced a stand alone UHD Blu-Ray player yet. Most likely because the chips to process the Dolby Vision metadata at the player level are not available yet.

The PS4 will support 4K blu-ray

HDMI 2.0a is the HDMI standard that added HDR which is a small amount of meta data added to the stream. HDMI 2.0a has no hardware change, HDMI 2 and HDMI 2.0a use the same hardware.



The movie industry for UHD Blu-ray requires the HDCP to take place in the same TEE that the AACS decryption takes place, it be firmware update-able and provide watermarking for forensic tracking. This eliminated the standard HDMI chip where HDCP took place in the HDMI chip The PS4 HDCP takes place in the PS4 Southbridge TEE and the Custom Panasonic HDMI chip supports up to 120 FPS which is needed for VR and possibly UHD Blu-ray HFR and IS NOT available with any HDMI 1.4 chipset.

There is no such thing as a UHD drive, it's a modern version 2 blu-ray drive that complies with the 2010 BD-R specs and an updated 2007 BD+ with BD-ROM mark.

The 2013 Microsoft employee quote supports this:The Xbox One supports both 3D and 4K Blu-ray discs at present. “There’s no hardware restriction at all,” said Microsoft’s Yusuf Mehdi at the time to Forbes

Sony employees (3 different people) say in 2013: 1) The PS4 can support 4K media, 2) The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port, 3) The PS4 hardware is feature proved to support many new coming features

Content Protection for BD-ROM Version 4 Mentions Game Consoles and outlines the DRM requirements the PLAYER not drive must support. The only requirement for the drive is that it read the BD-ROM mark and PS3 drives can do this. SO a modern standard blu-ray drive, those in the PS4 and XB1, can read a UHD disk and comply with the drive requirements.

All the 4K media delivery schemes will use the same software stack. To support UHD Blu-ray requires writing the BD+ and AACS software using the already existing 4K and C-ENC hooks on the already existing hardware.

The common low level API is C-ENC which is also used for HTML5 <video> EME MSE, 4K TV, 4K IPTV and the Downloadable security scheme for the Cable Card replacement.

The Downloadable security scheme for the cable card will be supported by Sony and there is a PDF Sony sent to the FCC with pictures of a PS3 and PS4 supporting Vidipath and DVR with a DSS, the DSS taking place in the same TEE that is required for the other 4K Media.

Provisions for 4K 3D are in the HEVC profile 10 codec. First comes Multi-view for 4K IPTV and TV then Multi-view plus depth map. The depth map adds a monochrome image watermark that corresponds to the depth of objects in the main view. It adds about 1/2 or less to the original frame.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The PS4 will support 4K blu-ray

HDMI 2.0a is the HDMI standard that added HDR which is a small amount of meta data added to the stream. HDMI 2.0a has no hardware change, HDMI 2 and HDMI 2.0a use the same hardware.



The movie industry for UHD Blu-ray requires the HDCP to take place in the same TEE that the AACS decryption takes place, it be firmware update-able and provide watermarking for forensic tracking. This eliminated the standard HDMI chip where HDCP took place in the HDMI chip The PS4 HDCP takes place in the PS4 Southbridge TEE and the Custom Panasonic HDMI chip supports up to 120 FPS which is needed for VR and possibly UHD Blu-ray HFR and IS NOT available with any HDMI 1.4 chipset.

There is no such thing as a UHD drive, it's a modern version 2 blu-ray drive that complies with the 2010 BD-R specs and an updated 2007 BD+ with BD-ROM mark.

The 2013 Microsoft employee quote supports this:The Xbox One supports both 3D and 4K Blu-ray discs at present. &#8220;There&#8217;s no hardware restriction at all,&#8221; said Microsoft&#8217;s Yusuf Mehdi at the time to Forbes

Sony employees (3 different people) say in 2013: 1) The PS4 can support 4K media, 2) The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port, 3) The PS4 hardware is feature proved to support many new coming features

Content Protection for BD-ROM Version 4 Mentions Game Consoles and outlines the DRM requirements the PLAYER not drive must support. The only requirement for the drive is that it read the BD-ROM mark and PS3 drives can do this. SO a modern standard blu-ray drive, those in the PS4 and XB1, can read a UHD disk and comply with the drive requirements.

All the 4K media delivery schemes will use the same software stack. To support UHD Blu-ray requires writing the BD+ and AACS software using the already existing 4K and C-ENC hooks on the already existing hardware.

The common low level API is C-ENC which is also used for HTML5 <video> EME MSE, 4K TV, 4K IPTV and the Downloadable security scheme for the Cable Card replacement.

The Downloadable security scheme for the cable card will be supported by Sony and there is a PDF Sony sent to the FCC with pictures of a PS3 and PS4 supporting Vidipath and DVR with a DSS, the DSS taking place in the same TEE that is required for the other 4K Media.

Provisions for 4K 3D are in the HEVC profile 10 codec. First comes Multi-view for 4K IPTV and TV then Multi-view plus depth map. The depth map adds a monochrome image watermark that corresponds to the depth of objects in the main view. It adds about 1/2 or less to the original frame.

This is false. The drives can't read the disks. Try it and see, I have a couple UHD Blu-Ray movies in my possession now and they aren't recognized. They will have to do a hardware revision if they intend to play UHD discs.

Your links are full of supposition and no facts relevant to the current UHD standards as set forth by the UHD Alliance and Blu-Ray Association who say current drives won't read the new format. Also, HDMI 1.4 is hardware, you can't update hardware via software. This is why many older 4k TVs cannot pass the HDCP 2.2 required by UHD Blu-Ray. There have been a few returns of the new Samsung UBD K-8500 because of this. Whatever trickery they have in place for VR doesn't change the fact that the hardware is locked. Nvidia figured out a way to pass 4k 60hz through HDMI 1.4 but they can't force HDCP 2.2 support without proper HDMI hardware.

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/2...ties-of-an-enhanced-ps4-for-ultra-hd-blu-ray/

&#8220;The Blu-ray disc drive that is currently installed in the PS4 is made exclusively for the Blu-ray disc player, so it cannot read the 3-layer media that is standardized by Ultra HD Blu-ray,&#8221; says Ito. &#8220;For this reason, the PlayStation 4 models that are out in the market cannot be compatible with Ultra HD Blu-ray.&#8221;

 

[sweenish]

The current gen has done so little right.

At least this whole fiasco was largely out of their control since the standard has taken so long to arrive. Honestly, it'll be this kind of mess, not streaming, that will kill physical media.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Honestly, it'll be this kind of mess, not streaming, that will kill physical media.

That will be a SAAAAAD day.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That will be a SAAAAAD day.

I agree, the quality at times is pretty bad compared to having the actual physical copy. Plus you lose the little extras like director commentary, secondary audio tracks etc.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The current gen has done so little right.

At least this whole fiasco was largely out of their control since the standard has taken so long to arrive. Honestly, it'll be this kind of mess, not streaming, that will kill physical media.

It's only a mess if someone was a first adopter of 4k TVs. I can safely say that UHD Blu-Ray wasn't even a whisper when they were designing the XB1 and PS4 consoles. Now it's kind of way down on the list of things people might want and doesn't have much momentum in terms of pushing a revision to support it. The mass market for UHD isn't there quite yet for them to release a new console that would probably cost a couple hundred bux more at retail.

 

[sweenish]

People are starting to buy 4K though. And all they're going to know is that their blu-rays aren't playing in blu-ray players.

Then you try telling them about HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2, HDR color range, etc. They'll just quit. Especially when they learn that parts of the standard are optional. That will go over so well.

I'm glad that by the time I can do anything home theater wise, this will hopefully all be settled. Granted, by that time 8K might be a thing.

 

[cmdrdredd]

People are starting to buy 4K though. And all they're going to know is that their blu-rays aren't playing in blu-ray players.

Then you try telling them about HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2, HDR color range, etc. They'll just quit. Especially when they learn that parts of the standard are optional. That will go over so well.

I'm glad that by the time I can do anything home theater wise, this will hopefully all be settled. Granted, by that time 8K might be a thing.

If they buy a new TV it supports the new standards. UHD Blu-Ray is clearly labeled as requiring a new player. The sections in Best Buy say so in a huge 4foot space where they display the movies that come in a new box and also include the 1080p Blu-Ray (no DVD).

 

[poofyhairguy]

I agree, the quality at times is pretty bad compared to having the actual physical copy. Plus you lose the little extras like director commentary, secondary audio tracks etc.

And the ability to actually OWN media. A streaming future is a future when everyone rents media, and we are dependant on keeping subscribed monthly to a platform to continue to get access to the media we love.

Even worse we are going backwards when it comes to media companies settings our schedules. TiVo and the DVR concept liberated us from having to schedule our life around when our favorite show aired, but now with the constantly shifting libraries and media rights battles we are getting back to that. Huge piles of movies are constantly leaving Netflix, so you better watch them before they are gone! That doesn't happen when your money goes towards disks you own.

Also it is really really nice to still be able to entertain the family when the internet goes down.

 

[jeff_rigby]

This is false. The drives can't read the disks. Try it and see, I have a couple UHD Blu-Ray movies in my possession now and they aren't recognized. They will have to do a hardware revision if they intend to play UHD discs.

You are confusing the player with the drive. There currently is no UHD player in the PS4. The drive is a modern post 2010 drive that can RELIABLY read a 3 layer disk. Before 2010, Blu-ray drives could read 3 to 6 layer disks with a firmware update. Edit: Yes the drive can not read a Version 2 disk without a firmware update (see Sony 2010 patent).

Also, HDMI 1.4 is hardware, you can't update hardware via software. Whatever trickery they have in place for VR doesn't change the fact that the hardware is locked. Nvidia figured out a way to pass 4k 60hz through HDMI 1.4 but they can't force HDCP 2.2 support without proper HDMI hardware

Page 6 ourlines some DRM requirements solved by ARM TEE, DTCP/IP and HDCP SW and configuration executed in TEE For the PS4, that is the Southbridge as a ARM SoC with Trustzone. This also applies to Miracast support. HDCP = HDCP 2.2 done in the Southbridge TEE NOT the HDMI chip.

http://www.silicone[QUOTE]ra.com/20...ties-of-an-enhanced-ps4-for-ultra-hd-blu-ray/[/QUOTE]NDA misdirection

 

[cmdrdredd]

You are confusing the player with the drive. There currently is no UHD player in the PS4. The drive is a modern post 2010 drive that can RELIABLY read a 3 layer disk. Before 2010, Blu-ray drives could read 3 to 6 layer disks with a firmware update.





http://www.silicone[B]NDA misdirect...te. It does NOT read the disk. Keep dreaming.

 

[jeff_rigby]

They need a new drive period. I proved it with a direct quote. It does NOT read the disk. Keep dreaming.

And I'll raise you four quotes that the XB1 and PS4 can support UHD media in all it's forms.

The 2013 Microsoft employee quote supports this:The Xbox One supports both 3D and 4K Blu-ray discs at present. &#8220;There&#8217;s no hardware restriction at all,&#8221; said Microsoft&#8217;s Yusuf Mehdi at the time to Forbes.

Sony employees (3 different people) say in 2013: 1) The PS4 can support 4K media, 2) The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port, 3) The PS4 hardware is feature proved to support many new coming features.

In addition the BDA mentions Game Consoles:

5. Licensee shall ensure that each Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Console manufactured by Licensee does not play back any Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Media unless such media is protected either by its own proprietary content protection system or Ultra HD BD-ROM Mark. New Production Format Models of Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Consoles are subject to verification of compliance with the applicable part of Test Specification pursuant to Schedule B. The portions of New Production Format Models of Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Consoles that are responsible for detection and response to the absence of ROM Mark will be required to comply with the compliance and robustness requirements of Schedule H.

Licensee shall ensure that AACS Online and Online Certificate Verification is implemented in each Ultra HD BD-ROM Movie Player, Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Console and Ultra HD BD-ROM PC Application Software which complies with &#8220;BD-ROM Profile 6&#8221; as specified in the &#8220;System Description, Blu-ray Disc Read Only Format Part 3: Audio Visual Basic Specifications: version 3.XX.

The UHD player (Not drive) is required to support the following DRM:

Ultra HD AACS version one for legacy and Version 2
AACS on-line needed for Version 2
On line certificate verification (White list certificate)
Ultra HD BD-ROM Mark part of BD+ 2007 format/DRM that can only be made on a BD-ROM in the factory. **This is the only drive requirement I can find and PS3 drives support this**
Ultra HD BD+ stricter DRM BD+ virtual machine running in the TEE

In the Oct 2015 Mt. Fuji Commands for Multimedia Devices Version 9 The 3 layer 100 GB disk is listed as being supported with a modern Blu-ray drive and there is no UHD Drive mentioned.

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Disc&#8482; Format - 4th edition

Table 1.4.3.1 shows brief physical specifications of Ultra HD Blu-ray&#8482; discs. Dual-Layer (DL) disc of 50 GB & 66 GB and Triple-Layer (TL) disc of 100GB are applied for ROM. The liner density of 66 GB DL and 100 GB TL ROM disc is same as that of 100 GB BDXL&#8482;.

Modern BD-ROM blu-ray drives = version 2 complying with the 2010 BD-R whitepaper can read BD-ROM disks including 100 GB TL which is the UHD disk format.

All this makes the Sony VP Ito quote you cited a lie unless Sony deliberately manufactured a drive that can't read 3 layers. The PS4 literature states that the PS4 supports BD-ROM and BD-R which makes it a modern Version 2 drive. Sony at launch said the PS4 would not support DLNA but DLNA is required for Vidipath which Sony planned to support and developed with their "Passage" developed in 2003 for Cable TV. That makes no DLNA in the PS4 a lie also. Also mentioned was NO CD support but it's still in the PS4 literature but not implemented yet, another lie. Why? Sony knew that DLNA and UHD Blu-ray would be implemented YEARS after launch and NDAs for some of the media features supported by DLNA were agreed to with Microsoft and others. The 2006 Hotchip discussion video which mentions DLNA and a common DRM (Vidipath = DLNA 2-4 plus Playready) was only posted to the internet in 2013 which is the year Microsoft shipped Playready 3 & ND porting kits for iOS and Android.

Yes I fill in the dots with lots of research, I don't believe any quote from anyone without confirming for my-self. This is solid enough that I make definite statements with proof....the hardware in both consoles can support UHD in all it's forms including UHD Blu-ray.

I can go on and on with the coming features that are also tied to world wide 4K TV and other FCC mandates like Vidipath and a downloadable security scheme. All rely on HTML5 <video> MSE EME and W3C extensions developed for 4K TV. The 2010 leaked powerpoint for the Yukon version of the XB1 mentions XTV, next generation TV and has a Tuner (QDFM chipset for 4K TV and ATSC support). XTV is supported in ATSC 2 & 3 and Microsoft announced a DVR supporting 1080P antenna TV which is only available with ATSC 2 and higher. Playready ND mentions game consoles as DVRs and it is required for DTCP-IP to support 1080P and 4K.

While both consoles do not have TV tuners there are plans to support USB and Network tuners supported by HTML5 W3C extensions. Cable is moving to all IPTV delivery in 2+ years (no tuners just a cable modem) and the FCC mandated a DSS to replace the cable card that goes into effect in about 2 years. In the short term on Cable, Vidipath (IPTV whole home DVR plus Cloud served IPTV) served from a Cable TV DVR over the home network is mandataed by the FCC. Clients must support Playready 2.5 or higher and WMDRM for 480i to 1080i and Playready ND for 1080P to 4K (all require a TEE).

Cell phones use the same modulation and frequencies (FCC sold and is selling TV frequencies to Cell phone companies) that ATSC 3 uses. ATSC 3 will have Mobile TV support and the FCC might mandate that all cell phones support TV for Emergency alert. Very little cost for cell phones to implement this. Cars will have this too. The Software stack in a Smart Phone with browser and w3c extensions is in UHD Smart TVs with Android TV. 4K Cell phones are already here. Playready ND will allow 1080P and 4 K streaming from a Vidipath DVR and UHD Blu-ray digital bridge. As previously mentioned, Microsoft shipped porting kits (iOS and Android) for Playready ND Oct 2013. In the leaked from Sony hack the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge proposals had Playready ND mentioned.

The cable companies, like Comcast, are providing two SSID wifi connection points. Both are encrypted, one for the customer with his default or custom encryption key and one that any Comcast customer can use with an app that auto logs into the "Xfinity SSID". Video streaming is supported so that on-demand TV is available on a Cell phone anywhere a Comcast Cable modem is located.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Neither the XBone nor the PS4 can, or ever will be able to read a 4K disc. The hardware itself can certainly process and display 4K content, so you can stream, but to physically put a 4K disc in and play the movie? Can't happen, and there's no possible update that can make it happen.

The only way that could happen would be for them to make a new drive available so you could buy one and swap it out.

Now it's entirely possible that they might start making new ones with drives that will support the new discs, but the ones that are out now will not and never will.

You can find plenty of evidence, such as this from Extremetech:

Finally, as far as we know, neither Sony nor Microsoft supports Blu-ray Ultra HD content in their respective game consoles. Both companies could hypothetically include support in future generations of the Xbox One or PlayStation 4, but not without replacing the conventional Blu-ray player with a more advanced model.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Neither the XBone nor the PS4 can, or ever will be able to read a 4K disc. The hardware itself can certainly process and display 4K content, so you can stream, but to physically put a 4K disc in and play the movie? Can't happen, and there's no possible update that can make it happen.

The only way that could happen would be for them to make a new drive available so you could buy one and swap it out.

Now it's entirely possible that they might start making new ones with drives that will support the new discs, but the ones that are out now will not and never will.

You can find plenty of evidence, such as this from Extremetech:

The big question would be the cost of the new machine and how many they could sell. UHD TVs aren't in every home yet, especially not HDR capable TVs. It wouldn't be as easy as say the PS3 was with Blu-Ray and that was expensive at launch. It just happened to be the cheapest Blu-Ray player for a while and became quite popular for that usage while at the same time, HDTVs were widely adopted. The PS4 or XB1 would have to be cheaper or the same price as stand alone players to be purchased for the UHD Disc capability and I don't see that happening. This time the new players are retailing for $400 and not north of $600.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Neither the XBone nor the PS4 can, or ever will be able to read a 4K disc. The hardware itself can certainly process and display 4K content, so you can stream, but to physically put a 4K disc in and play the movie? Can't happen, and there's no possible update that can make it happen.

The only way that could happen would be for them to make a new drive available so you could buy one and swap it out.

Now it's entirely possible that they might start making new ones with drives that will support the new discs, but the ones that are out now will not and never will.

You can find plenty of evidence, such as this from Extremetech:

I guess there are no UHD players as there is no UHD drive. Guys, this is unequivocally supported by my previous post. There is no such thing as a UHD drive. It is not listed in the Mt. Fuji Commands for Multimedia Devices Version 9. Table 6 page 83 lists the disk FORMAT for V 1.4 and V 2 disks. V2 disk format (66 and 100 GB) is not compatible with version 1.4 (25 and 50GB), you can't have the two formats on the same disk (Page 84 BD-ROM). A modern Blu-ray drive can read, is required to read, both disk formats.

Edit: Page 1106 has the changes from Mt. Fuji 8 to 9 which include the changes needed to support AACS 2 and BD-ROM Version 2 format disks. Very few and they look to be all firmware. These changes are in the 2015 Fuji 9 paper and couldn't be in 2013 BD-ROM drives so the drives need a firmware update to support Version 2 format disks and/or AACS 2. The PS3 BD-ROM drives got an update to support BD+ sometime after 2007.

The V2 format was in the 2010 Sony patent that mentioned the Panasonic-Sony tweek that allowed the extra compression which Sony said just required a Firmware update and the same patent mentioned that drives in 2010 could read the three layers. The 2010 BD-R whitepaper updated the specs so that a drive could reliably read three layers with the tweek.

Modern Blu-ray drives can support 4K blu-ray There is a 2010 patent from Sony which confirms modern blu-ray drives can support 4k blu-ray. The patent discusses a modification to either the coming 4 layer BDXL in the 2010 blu-ray whitepaper or 3 layer 4K blu-ray disks to make them unreadable on older blu-ray drives by inverting the track information. A software change to later higher spec standard blu-ray drives makes them able to read this inverted track information.

Combine this: "The Xbox One supports both 3D and 4K Blu-ray discs at present. &#8220;There&#8217;s no hardware restriction at all, (Yusuf Mehdi)&#8221; with the BDA mentioning UHD blu-ray Game Consoles and you have the 2013 release XB1 with a drive that can support UHD Blu-ray. If the drive was available for the XB1 then it should be available for the PS4.

There is so much ignorance even among those who are supposed to be professionals (your cite). If you can't think for yourself, be careful who you believe. I prefer to believe "Mr. Yusuf Mehdi who serves as Head of Xbox Business Strategy and Marketing at Microsoft Corporation. Mr. Mehdi served as Senior Vice President of Online Audience Business at Microsoft Corporation and led global product management, strategic partnerships, business development and U.S. marketing execution. He served as Senior Vice President of Microsoft Corporation and as its Senior Vice President of MSN Information Services and Chief Advertising Strategist." then confirm for myself than to believe some writer who is not in the loop.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Nope sorry but keep dreaming. The current consoles need hardware. This is why they can't just firmware update old blu-Ray players. They also need the chips to process the HDR metadata.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Nope sorry but keep dreaming. The current consoles need hardware. This is why they can't just firmware update old blu-Ray players. They also need the chips to process the HDR metadata.

The point of the Microsoft VP statement is that the XB1 has the hardware to support UHD Blu-ray. HDR metadata does not require extra hardware to stream it, it becomes part of the HDMI stream. Both the transmitter and receiver have to recognize and handle the metadata properly...that is firmware. The HDMI Metadata/HDCP processing takes place in the PS4 Southbridge and the ARM Soc inside the XB1 APU; these are the TEEs for both consoles.

Microsoft announced the XB1 got HEVC profile 10 6/2015 in a major firmware update. This is another part of what is required for UHD Blu-ray that articles were saying the PS4 and XB1 couldn't support because hardware codecs for HEVC were not available in 2013. HEVC in both consoles and AMD APUs is supported via Software using Xtensa processors as an accelerator.

Do some reading and catch up, this has been known (Xtensa processors) and on Beyond3D and NeoGAF for 14 months. That the PS4 has a separate ARM SoC as Southbridge was known about 2012 (Semiaccurate PS4 comes as two chips and the XB1 as one) and the XB1 having crypto/DRM hardware in the APU since the project name leaked by Sweetvar123 "Kryptos"

 

[jeff_rigby]

UHD Game Consoles shipped in 2013 but won't be firmware updated to support it till 2016.. There is a second paper naming both the XB1 and PS4 as UHD game consoles.

So this is understood as confirmed:

The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port with HDCP taking place in Southbridge and the GPGPU block mentioned by Eurogamer in the PS4 and XB1 are Xtensa DSP accelerators that are used for HEVC and OpenVX (Vision processing and Codecs using GPGPU with special blocks that are 20-100X more efficient than CPU or GPU GPGPU at some tasks.)

And for the Player software and License for UHD Game Console

There is a BDA Licence for UHD Blu-ray game consoles and Sony has a License for a BD-ROM4 Movie Player/BD-ROM Game Console/BD-ROM Test Player and a License for a UHD Blu-ray PC application.. BD-ROM4 is the UHD blu-ray version. What was confusing was that it was for a Category that included all Embedded platforms where the Manufacturer has control over the drive and all DRM; I.E. Stand alone UHD Blu-ray players and Game Consoles.

There is no such thing as a UHD drive; there is no UHD Drive in the PS4 or the coming Neo. It's a blu-ray drive able to read Version 1 and Version 2 format disks. Ver 2 disks change the mark length allowing 33GB/layer rather than 25 GB.

A modern HD Blu-ray drive can be firmware updated to support UHD (Version 2 disks). They must buy a Licence and provide a server for pairing/Key encryption between the drive and Player across the USB or eSATA bus. ALL blu-ray drives can read three or more layers. It's the disk that is special not the drive; this is mentioned in Wiki pages.

In January 2007, Hitachi showcased a 100 GB Blu-ray Disc, consisting of four layers containing 25 GB each.[77] Unlike TDK and Panasonic's 100 GB discs, they claim this disc is readable on standard Blu-ray Disc drives that are currently in circulation, and it is believed that a firmware update is the only requirement to make it readable to current players and drives.[78]

In December 2008, Pioneer Corporation unveiled a 400 GB Blu-ray Disc (containing 16 data layers, 25 GB each) that will be compatible with current players after a firmware update. Its planned launch is in the 2009–

On January 1, 2010, Sony, in association with Panasonic, announced plans to increase the storage capacity on their Blu-ray Discs from 25 GB to 33.4 GB via a technology called i-MLSE (Maximum likelihood Sequence Estimation). The higher-capacity discs, according to Sony, will be readable on current Blu-ray Disc players with a firmware upgrade. No date has been set to include the increased space, although in 2010 Blu-ray.com reported that "it will likely happen sometime later this year."[80]

The BDA whitepaper page 32 lists the difference between V1.4 and V2 disk formats and it's the mark length which then requires a change in how reliability is determined. This is the 2010 Panasonic-Sony tweak that Sony said was firmware update-able.

The V2 format was in the 2010 Sony patent mentioned by NAME as V2 that mentioned the Panasonic-Sony tweek that allowed the extra compression which Sony said just required a Firmware update and the same patent mentioned that drives in 2010 could read the three layers.

Sony and Panasonic have announced plans to increase the capacity of Blu-Ray discs (such as those used by PS3 games) from 25GB to 33.4GB. Hideo Kojima will be so pleased!

According to a report from Nikkei, the increase comes courtesy of some new ways to evaluate content on the disc. Or, in more technical terms, is thanks to new partial response maximum likelihood (PRML) signal processing, which "assumes inter-symbol interference, which makes it difficult to base optical disc quality evaluation on jitter, as is widely done now for Blu-ray and many other optical discs".

Now, there's good news, and there's good news. Good news first: this advance will be compatible with all existing Blu-Ray players, as all that's required is a firmware update. So the technology will find its way to PS3 games soon enough.

And the good news? The increase applies to all layers of the disc. So as soon as dual-layered Blu-Ray discs start becoming common, you'll be able to fit 66.8GB of data on a disc.

Please read the cites. This is by design not accident that standard blu-ray drives can be firmware updated to support Version 2 disks. There are many other technologies that can support MUCH larger volumes and they were not used. The BDA wanted to make it as easy as possible to support UHD Blu-ray.

 

[sweenish]

neogaf and wikipedia theoreticals have no bearing on real life.

DVD's holding more than 9 GB of data were demonstrated as well. Nothing ever came of it.

And those articles have NO bearing on UHD blu-rays whose layers are a different size, AND require h.265 decoding. And let's remember that HDCP 2.2 is HARDWARE controlled.

My mom's TV was "3D-upgradeable." I'll save you the time and say that it never arrived, and it wouldn't have been compatible if it had. It's all smoke and mirrors. The sooner you catch on to how thin, theoretical, and tangential your sources are, the more time you can spend on something productive.

 

[poofyhairguy]

AND require h.265 decoding. And let's remember that HDCP 2.2 is HARDWARE controlled.

Yeah that is the bottom line. HDCP 2.2 isn't just a firmware upgrade away (by design), and neither the PS4's CPU nor its GPU have the power needed to decode 10bit 4K video. I could see is streaming some low bitrate 4K content, but UHD disks are out of the question. I would make a large bet on it actually.