Can the military still train quality senior officers?

[JEDI]

Or just promote due to years in service?

3 future assignments:
Something not challenging, complicated, or high profile

 

[jupiter57]

The list of qualified Senior Officer candidates is dwindling at an alarming rate.
The overall quality of ALL Officers has been on the decline for years, due to the way kids are being raised & educated these days.
How can you instill & enforce discipline on those you command when you have never experienced discipline yourself?

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: jupiter57
The list of qualified Senior Officer candidates is dwindling at an alarming rate.
The overall quality of ALL Officers has been on the decline for years, due to the way kids are being raised & educated these days.
How can you instill & enforce discipline on those you command when you have never experienced discipline yourself?

You think the problem with the way kids are raised and educatred is discipline? How about the ability to think?

 

[Tsaico]

Originally posted by: jupiter57
The list of qualified Senior Officer candidates is dwindling at an alarming rate.
The overall quality of ALL Officers has been on the decline for years, due to the way kids are being raised & educated these days.
How can you instill & enforce discipline on those you command when you have never experienced discipline yourself?

I believe part of the problem is the volunteer only military service. With the exception of a shrinking number of able minded, who joins the military? Pretty much the ones who have nothing else to go on and this is their best bet to get anywhere in life.

We should do something like a forced two year of service or something. We can have sub-divisions in every branch to accomodate non-combantants (your people who are not suitable for really anything but grunt work, dig your trenches, pave your road, empty latrines), your engineering corp (your still non combative, but people who are capable of more like designing building bridges, buildings, or levees and college students), then your traditional military folks (who are still the one who want weapons training, the better pay).

This would get every punk kid off the streets between the ages of 18-20, and when they leave their 2nd year, they would have 40 grand in their pocket to go waste as they see fit or perhaps actually do something with it. The kids who cry "There is no one to give me a chance and that is why I stay on the streets" have no argument, as they get the same measly 20 grand a year. But it is tax free and they do not have ot pay for living expenses for two years so it just goes into a savings account for them when they get out.

It will force the fat people to get off their asses and sweat a little. It will also show people how much worse things can really be, regardless of where they are in life.

 

[AndrewR]

It's not necessarily a question of training quality senior officers but of promoting the best people. Since the overall promotion atmosphere encourages ticket punching and favors certain career fields within each service (pilots in USAF, infantry in USA, no idea for Navy or USMC), there are many quality officers who simply leave the service, or enter the Reserves, instead of staying in and "playing the game" to rise to the senior ranks. The basic reason for this situation is politics internal to each service and a general peacetime (even in wartime like now, ironically) mentality which favors those with perfect records and not leadership performance in many cases.

Any why is that? Because Congress and the press like to skewer the military over the slightest infractions, even in times of war. Look at the Navy -- any problem with a warship, even if unforeseen or unavoidable, results in the skipper being dismissed immediately. No leader is infallible, and the expectation of perfection is ludicrous. So, exceptional leaders and potentially very influential future admirals are removed from command and will never be promoted past Captain because of a one time mistake. Since when did "learning from mistakes" become anathema? Should luck determine our flag officers?

Originally posted by: Tsaico

Originally posted by: jupiter57
The list of qualified Senior Officer candidates is dwindling at an alarming rate.
The overall quality of ALL Officers has been on the decline for years, due to the way kids are being raised & educated these days.
How can you instill & enforce discipline on those you command when you have never experienced discipline yourself?

I believe part of the problem is the volunteer only military service. With the exception of a shrinking number of able minded, who joins the military? Pretty much the ones who have nothing else to go on and this is their best bet to get anywhere in life.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about so why don't you quit while you're behind? Too late...

We should do something like a forced two year of service or something. We can have sub-divisions in every branch to accomodate non-combantants (your people who are not suitable for really anything but grunt work, dig your trenches, pave your road, empty latrines), your engineering corp (your still non combative, but people who are capable of more like designing building bridges, buildings, or levees and college students), then your traditional military folks (who are still the one who want weapons training, the better pay).

Wow, that sounds SOOOO inexpensive. :roll: Who is going to pay for the extra $100 billion per year (or more) needed for the training, housing, feeding, clothing, and paying of these conscripts? How much of an effect on procurement and military construction do you foresee in a fiscally constrained environment?

This would get every punk kid off the streets between the ages of 18-20, and when they leave their 2nd year, they would have 40 grand in their pocket to go waste as they see fit or perhaps actually do something with it. The kids who cry "There is no one to give me a chance and that is why I stay on the streets" have no argument, as they get the same measly 20 grand a year. But it is tax free and they do not have ot pay for living expenses for two years so it just goes into a savings account for them when they get out.

Why not just create a socialist economy instead?

It will force the fat people to get off their asses and sweat a little. It will also show people how much worse things can really be, regardless of where they are in life.

Sounds like the cadre for training these folks is going to be quite extensive. Where are these professional troops going to come from if we still have regular military commitments around the world? You know, the real reason for the military instead of some grand ideological experiment?

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: jupiter57
The list of qualified Senior Officer candidates is dwindling at an alarming rate.
The overall quality of ALL Officers has been on the decline for years, due to the way kids are being raised & educated these days.
How can you instill & enforce discipline on those you command when you have never experienced discipline yourself?

If you think there is no discipline among officers in today's military you are very mistaken. A very simple mistake can get an officer in a world of hurt, and there is zero tolerance for any kind of dishonesty.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
It's not necessarily a question of training quality senior officers but of promoting the best people. Since the overall promotion atmosphere encourages ticket punching and favors certain career fields within each service (pilots in USAF, infantry in USA, no idea for Navy or USMC), there are many quality officers who simply leave the service, or enter the Reserves, instead of staying in and "playing the game" to rise to the senior ranks. The basic reason for this situation is politics internal to each service and a general peacetime (even in wartime like now, ironically) mentality which favors those with perfect records and not leadership performance in many cases.

Any why is that? Because Congress and the press like to skewer the military over the slightest infractions, even in times of war. Look at the Navy -- any problem with a warship, even if unforeseen or unavoidable, results in the skipper being dismissed immediately. No leader is infallible, and the expectation of perfection is ludicrous. So, exceptional leaders and potentially very influential future admirals are removed from command and will never be promoted past Captain because of a one time mistake. Since when did "learning from mistakes" become anathema? Should luck determine our flag officers?

Naval line officers pretty much have to have commanded a ship at sea to reach the highest levels. That is why the captain of a ship is held responsible for everything that takes place with that ship while it is under his command. It has been like that throughout the history of both the US Navy and the Royal Navy as well. If you stop and consider just how much power and resposibility are in the hands of the captain of an aircraft carrier or a nuclear missile sub it makes sense.

 

[soydios]

My friend's dad flew F-14s in the Navy, he's currently a Captain in the naval reserves, was an instructor at Top Gun, etc. There's still some pretty good officers out there.

What was the impetus for this thread? Was there some "study" about declining officer quality? Because everyone I know in the military or planning on going there has their shit together and in the right place.