I live in a small town, there is one private school here. The next closest one is over 60 miles away from me. Now vouchers only cover part of the tuition, not all of it. What happens to the children whose parents can not afford to pay the rest of the tuition themselves? What happens in places like this when the one private school is filled and the only place to go is to a public one? Anyone know?
Can the Bush fans explain this to me?
- Thread starter myputer
- Start date
The plan will not work. then again, i am anti-voucher. I support Bush,a s he is our president, but I do not support all of his ideas.
Your elementary-schooler will go straight into the work force. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I think the local coal mine can use some help getting into those really *tight* places, anyway...
Don't discredit public schools. I don't think I will ever meet such a great collection of students and teachers again in my life.
The voucher just allows you to pick the school you want. If you can't afford the additional cost then your child goes to the local school and is still covered 100%.
Maetryx
Diamond Member
- Jan 18, 2001
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Maetryx here, 
There is the option of home schooling. I wonder if the vouchers work in that case. Do the parents get the money if they teach the child themselves? They should, in my opinion.
To me, though, free education is a good deal, whether or not the school is "failing". Plus, I don't think the problem can be solved by sending students to other schools. Yeah, those students might be better off, but now the school that's failing is in worse shape, because some of the brightest and best moved on. But what are you gonna do?
--Maetryx
There is the option of home schooling. I wonder if the vouchers work in that case. Do the parents get the money if they teach the child themselves? They should, in my opinion.
To me, though, free education is a good deal, whether or not the school is "failing". Plus, I don't think the problem can be solved by sending students to other schools. Yeah, those students might be better off, but now the school that's failing is in worse shape, because some of the brightest and best moved on. But what are you gonna do?
--Maetryx
Don't discredit public schools. I don't think I will ever meet such a great collection of students and teachers again in my life.
I have nothing against public schools, honestly I think there are more failing today because of the lack of interest people have in the education of their own children.
I have nothing against public schools, honestly I think there are more failing today because of the lack of interest people have in the education of their own children.
Vouchers have to be backed at the Federal, State and Local level to get all the funds channeled to the school of your choice. There's only so much Bush can do.
And the ONLY argument against vouchers that carries any weight is the separation of church and state issue. If we could get past that barrier, public schools would be toast!
School vouchers . . . what do you think? Xerox Man Feb/03/2001
Edit: BTW, your topic title could use a little tweaking. How about throwing the word voucher in there somewhere? I think we could use a short class on creating a topic titles here in ATOT!
And the ONLY argument against vouchers that carries any weight is the separation of church and state issue. If we could get past that barrier, public schools would be toast!
School vouchers . . . what do you think? Xerox Man Feb/03/2001
Edit: BTW, your topic title could use a little tweaking. How about throwing the word voucher in there somewhere? I think we could use a short class on creating a topic titles here in ATOT!
Here in CA we had this issue come up alot. My mother is a teacher and VERY against the whole idea. I, on the other hand, support it in theory. The problem almost anyone will tell you is with administration. A HUGE chunk of the money goes to inefficient money handling. Here in CA, each child gets almost $8K a year for school. My theory was that if you give half (a recent proposal) to a student to go to private school, then another student would have ~$8K + ~$4K(devided) that was left by the student that left. The main problem with this is three fold:
1. Schools will not see all this money because a new beaurocracy will be need to handle all the money that is changing hands.
2. Public schools have more regulations since they are controlled by the public and these costs equate to less money being filtered directly to the student. (Good or Bad)
3. Schools in the poor neighborhoods will suffer the most since the kids with the lowest incomes will be the ones with the least choice.
While I am not a socialist, I have met many peole from disadvantaged backgrounds who would not have succeeded without public education. Our taxes go to many things and I believe one priority should be education for everyone. If they can honestly impliment a good plan, I believe it is a parents choice on how they bring up their kids. F@CK the division of church ans state! It was once your money, it should be your ultimate choice.
As always,
D
1. Schools will not see all this money because a new beaurocracy will be need to handle all the money that is changing hands.
2. Public schools have more regulations since they are controlled by the public and these costs equate to less money being filtered directly to the student. (Good or Bad)
3. Schools in the poor neighborhoods will suffer the most since the kids with the lowest incomes will be the ones with the least choice.
While I am not a socialist, I have met many peole from disadvantaged backgrounds who would not have succeeded without public education. Our taxes go to many things and I believe one priority should be education for everyone. If they can honestly impliment a good plan, I believe it is a parents choice on how they bring up their kids. F@CK the division of church ans state! It was once your money, it should be your ultimate choice.
As always,
D
<< Vouchers have to be backed at the Federal, State and Local level to get all the funds channeled to the school of your choice. There's only so much Bush can do. >>
good point. this is why I don't think vouchers will every happen in most places in the country
<< nd the ONLY argument against vouchers that carries any weight is the separation of church and state issue. If we could get past that barrier, public schools would be toast! >>
i think of a few additional arguments against vouchers. (1) It is probable that vouchers won't pay for a full private education, so only those who can provide the difference will enjoy the benefits. (2) if vouchers fail, the damage to public education could be long-term. already educators are underpaid, removal of funding may not improve the situation and may create a mass exodus of the teaching profession.
personally, I'm for more special program magnet schools that get funding based on enrollment, but I'm against vouchers, and any divestment of public education.
If the politicians looked at countries that beat US hands down in K-12 education, maybe they would know what to do. Unfortunately, they think they don't need advice from outsiders.
BTW, all these places have public schools that are way better then ours.
I think first thing to do is get rid of all multiple choice tests in schools, and SAT's. We shouldn't make things so easy for the students. Let them use their heads.
BTW, all these places have public schools that are way better then ours.
I think first thing to do is get rid of all multiple choice tests in schools, and SAT's. We shouldn't make things so easy for the students. Let them use their heads.
Contrary to what the Democratic party's propaganda pages will have you believe, people in favor of vouchers aren't against public schools. Most people in favor of vouchers would continue to send their kids to public schools. The idea behind vouchers is that the increased competition from private schools - in that more parents now have the option of sending their kids to one - will force lazy public school teachers and administrations to do a better job of teaching kids.
Like Colin Powell said "There's nothing to lose from trying out vouchers". If the Teachers Unions and their friends in the Democratic party are so confident that kids who attend public schools in the ghetto are getting taught by competent teachers, then they have absolutely nothing to fear from the institution of vouchers, since they will have no effect on the status quo. If, however, the institution of vouchers results in children flocking to suburban schools (you can pay to go to another school district) and/or urban private schools, it will expose the corruption inherent in the system, and enable the system to reform itself (encourage inner city teachers to do a better job).
It's a win-win situation for everyone, except bad teachers - who shouldn't be allowed near kids in the first place - and the Democratic party of America - which I really couldn't care less for.
Like Colin Powell said "There's nothing to lose from trying out vouchers". If the Teachers Unions and their friends in the Democratic party are so confident that kids who attend public schools in the ghetto are getting taught by competent teachers, then they have absolutely nothing to fear from the institution of vouchers, since they will have no effect on the status quo. If, however, the institution of vouchers results in children flocking to suburban schools (you can pay to go to another school district) and/or urban private schools, it will expose the corruption inherent in the system, and enable the system to reform itself (encourage inner city teachers to do a better job).
It's a win-win situation for everyone, except bad teachers - who shouldn't be allowed near kids in the first place - and the Democratic party of America - which I really couldn't care less for.
- Oct 28, 1999
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<< And the ONLY argument against vouchers that carries any weight is the separation of church and state issue. If we could get past that barrier, public schools would be toast! >>
Not quite.
One MAJOR priviledge that private schools hold is the ability to reject people. They can maintain a healthy student poplulation. They don't have to worry about overcrowding.
A public school on the other hand can not reject anyone. If they start to overpopulate, tough.
So, the question stands, what happens when you have a mass exodus of students being yanked out of a "failing" public school and placed into a private school? Answer: you have a bunch of students not getting into a private school because it's full.
What happens now? They find another public school that is better than the one that they hopped out of. That public school can't reject these students. Now this public school is overcrowed. What happens now? You have overstressed teachers, undersized classrooms, understaffed schools, and are put in the same situation that you started with.
<< What happens now? You have overstressed teachers, undersized classrooms, understaffed schools, and are put in the same situation that you started with. >>
Chances are, that the schools these kids are leaving already have undersized classrooms, understaffed faculty, etc. The advantage of vouchers is that the teachers and the funds will go where the students are. The problems that you talk about aren't likely to happen.
<< What happens in places like this when the one private school is filled and the only place to go is to a public one? Anyone know? >>
Yes. You continue to do what you were doing under Clinton, go to public school.
The problem is that the people don't want school vouchers. In two elections (on a local level), school vouchers were defeated handily.
Bush should realize it's not what the people want. Another problem with politicians. They are supposed to work for what the people want. But they generally have their own agenda, regardless of what the people have said.
All that aside, vouchers won't work. If my public school district fails, and I get vouchers, they still won't be enough for me to send my kids to private school. The only people that will benefit are those who are already using private schools (i.e. the wealthier families). And us middle class families will be stuck with public schools, with even less funding.
"You continue to do what you were doing under Clinton, go to public school."
Except now, it has less funding.
Bush should realize it's not what the people want. Another problem with politicians. They are supposed to work for what the people want. But they generally have their own agenda, regardless of what the people have said.
All that aside, vouchers won't work. If my public school district fails, and I get vouchers, they still won't be enough for me to send my kids to private school. The only people that will benefit are those who are already using private schools (i.e. the wealthier families). And us middle class families will be stuck with public schools, with even less funding.
"You continue to do what you were doing under Clinton, go to public school."
Except now, it has less funding.
<< But they generally have their own agenda, regardless of what the people have said. >>
I cna vouch for that from experience. I worked for a politician for 4 years, until this past election when she did not make it back into office. She did nothing here constituents wanted, or what was in the best interest of the people, she did what she wanted, or what she thought was best for the people. Which you and I know can get scary when someone thinks they know what?s best for you.
<< Except now, it has less funding. >>
Funding has always been an issue nothing new.
Competition is a good thing. It is also the only reason liberals argue against vouchers; they don't have the stomache for it.
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
<< The only people that will benefit are those who are already using private schools (i.e. the wealthier families). And us middle class families will be stuck with public schools, with even less funding. >>
That?s not totally true. I had a co-worker when I worked for the state who sent here 2 kids to private school. Bud I agree, a lower class family would have a hard time sending there kids to private school.
I don?t consider myself upper class, but rather middle, and I know for a fact I could send my child to private school even without a voucher. I make enough to were I could put aside $8000 a year for my child?s education. That?s about how much it cost to send your child to a top private school in my State. Less for other private schools, which are all rated better then the best public schools.
NOX, but could you afford to send three kids to private school on a middle income?
"It is also the only reason liberals argue against vouchers; they don't have the stomache for it"
Nope there are more reasons (other than financial) to not like vouchers. Ok, so they set standards to meet as to keep the funding. Now teachers are teaching the kids to score well on said tests, instead of teaching kids in general. I want my kids to learn how to be intelligent, not how to take a specific test.
And why do you attack personally, when someone doesn't agree with your thoughts? Instead of attacking "liberals", why not offer something constructive like answering myputer's question.
While you view it as competition and Conservative vs. Liberal, I view it as what's best for my kids.
"It is also the only reason liberals argue against vouchers; they don't have the stomache for it"
Nope there are more reasons (other than financial) to not like vouchers. Ok, so they set standards to meet as to keep the funding. Now teachers are teaching the kids to score well on said tests, instead of teaching kids in general. I want my kids to learn how to be intelligent, not how to take a specific test.
And why do you attack personally, when someone doesn't agree with your thoughts? Instead of attacking "liberals", why not offer something constructive like answering myputer's question.
While you view it as competition and Conservative vs. Liberal, I view it as what's best for my kids.
Local Politics and Administration.
I mean look at the DISD. 5 Superintendents in 4 years, the last two getting $250,000+ a year. On top of that the DISD has $11million worth of stuff missing/stolen/unaccounted for. Including 11 portalable buildings, a bull dozer, several $100,000+ instruments. In short, they do not know what they have and what they don't have, so they waste tons of money because of it.
Another school district which will remain nameless, spent money adding onto the high school, for the cost of the add on they could have built a whole new school, larger than the one they ended up with. Then the press box was set on fire. What do they decided to do? The insurance money isn't enough for their plans, they build an expensive high tech press box, with an elevator. LOL. The district is POOR, because the district, makes its self poor because of the school board doing favors for friends.
Lastly, coachs(atleast in Texas) get paid $20,000-30,000 more than teachers. Coaches are typically the worst teachers(there are exceptions), you should be paid based on how well you teach. And if you aren't up to par you should be fired(with the Teacher Unions, its impossible to get bad teachers out of schools).
I mean look at the DISD. 5 Superintendents in 4 years, the last two getting $250,000+ a year. On top of that the DISD has $11million worth of stuff missing/stolen/unaccounted for. Including 11 portalable buildings, a bull dozer, several $100,000+ instruments. In short, they do not know what they have and what they don't have, so they waste tons of money because of it.
Another school district which will remain nameless, spent money adding onto the high school, for the cost of the add on they could have built a whole new school, larger than the one they ended up with. Then the press box was set on fire. What do they decided to do? The insurance money isn't enough for their plans, they build an expensive high tech press box, with an elevator. LOL. The district is POOR, because the district, makes its self poor because of the school board doing favors for friends.
Lastly, coachs(atleast in Texas) get paid $20,000-30,000 more than teachers. Coaches are typically the worst teachers(there are exceptions), you should be paid based on how well you teach. And if you aren't up to par you should be fired(with the Teacher Unions, its impossible to get bad teachers out of schools).
Vouchers are just another way to foster class warfare. The amount is not enough to cover even half the private school tuition, so no one from the lower income levels will be able to use them. But may of those who have kids or could afford to have kids in private schools already could use them, ending up with subsidized private education.
For real choice, let's have a program where the government pays 100% of the cost of any school a parent chooses. If the private schools get swamped, government could offer new school construction funds. To fill those classrooms, government could provide funds to hire new teachers. To administer all this, government would have to set up local districts and hire local administrators. Hmmm. This model seems familiar.
Bottom line is, a partial voucher scheme is a simple, thinly-disguised ploy to provide benefits to religious-based institutions and their clients/supporters. Anything less than covering the full cost is a sham. Then again, covering the full cost creates the same system we have, doesn't it?
For real choice, let's have a program where the government pays 100% of the cost of any school a parent chooses. If the private schools get swamped, government could offer new school construction funds. To fill those classrooms, government could provide funds to hire new teachers. To administer all this, government would have to set up local districts and hire local administrators. Hmmm. This model seems familiar.
Bottom line is, a partial voucher scheme is a simple, thinly-disguised ploy to provide benefits to religious-based institutions and their clients/supporters. Anything less than covering the full cost is a sham. Then again, covering the full cost creates the same system we have, doesn't it?
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