"The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
M: We live in a military industrial complex with the largest military in the world. We have nuclear weapons, poison gas, weaponized anthrax, sonic and laser weapons, aircraft carriers submarines and fleets of stealth bombers. Your hand gun doesn't mean shit.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
M: Join a well regulated militia, the army navy marines or air force.
"When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
M: Militia mob rabble because the well regulated part is out. Who are the well regulated militia should be the question.
"That the People have a right to keep and bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, composed of the Body of the People, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe Defense of a free state."
M: "Was" proper to the defense of the state, times change, and it was still referred to as trained in arms as a body that was regulated, not a bunch of gun religion nuts in their homes.
"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens."
M: Such an if will now never arise unless we are allowed to carry nukes, poison gas, sonic weapons, lasers etc. or hire an army from China.
"The said Constitution [shall] be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."
M: Gun regulation is attempted where the people aren't peaceful but are killing those who are and are prevented from doing so by the tyranny of a religious majority who worship a past that no longer applies.
"[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
They used to and now the horrible mischief results from those who have the guns.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
M: Crimes are created by law. Forbid law and there will be no crimes. Rural America has given way to large cities where the police perform this function. Times change.
"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves . . . and include all men capable of bearing arms. . . To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms... The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle."
M: Clearly the words of somebody who knew that a properly formed militia isn't in fact the people and wanted to pretend that is what was meant and another fool who wasn't being shot at by his own people.
The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to over-awe them."
M: Right, the army is terrified of hand guns because, some how, they can survive a nuke.
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American . . . . The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
M: We see again the obvious implication that the militia is not the people and the attempt to blur that fact.
"As the military forces which must occasionally be raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article (of amendment) in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
M: Occasionally arise? What a joke. We have a permanent military stationed here and all over the world, 24 7 for decades.
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power."
M: Right, except day by day we have become more a fascist state in spite of ourselves. This is a religious belief that has no bearing in reality at all. The people are asleep and there will be no revolution. Guns serve now to kill each other in the streets randomly.
In the last Supreme Court decision regarding the Second Amendment, UNITED STATES v. MILLER, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), the court stated this in their decision:
"The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense."
M: Good, that tells us that the individual gun owner in the personal use of his gun is not acting in concert with anybody for any defense of the nation and has no right to the use of a gun. You fail at reading comprehension.
A: As for your argument over the mention of a militia in the amendment:
First: The militia referred to in the Bill of Rights is every able bodied man able to take up arms. .
M: You mean, take up arms in concert with others in the common defense as in a mobilization of a citizen army. You fail at reading comprehension
A: What if this were an amendment?
"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the preservation of a free society, the right of the people to read and compose books shall not be infringed."
Would that mean only the well educated had the right to read and compose books???
Of course not. The right to read books applies to all so a well educated society could exist and preserve a free society (something that's failed you, obviously).
"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
M: What you fail to grasp is that to be well educated an individual effort must be made. To be well educated you have to educate yourself. But to be well regulated you have to be regulated by an external force. You need to be under command. Gun owners are under no body that regulates them or even unites them in some common defense. The time when that might have happened is gone. The only folk regulated now are the police and military. They can carry guns.
A: The Second Amendment CLEARLY applies to THE PEOPLE. Not a militia. It exists so a militia may be formed from amongst THE PEOPLE. And in EVERY other Amendment, "THE PEOPLE" are individual citizens. A militia is a collective. The PEOPLE are individuals.
M: Rubbish. The militia today doesn't use the guns it brings from home. The government buys they by the billions and equips them and does the training and regulating. The notion of gun ownership for common defense today is a total joke.
A: There is NO SUCH THING as a "collective right" nor is there ANY part of the Bill of Rights that grants rights to the government. No, the Bill of Rights exists to preserve INDIVIDUAL rights.
M: Have you been able to buy a nuke? If you can't own a nuke you have no right of self defense because only a nuke provide the MAD defense.
A: I want you to post ONE quote from a single founding father that shows otherwise. Just one.
Oh wait, you can't...
In short, you fail. Miserably. And so does the Author of the article you posted. "Dead heat" my ass.
M: I want you to show me one single quote from the founding fathers that supports the law where blacks are 2/3 rds of a person, or whatever it was.
You can take your quotes and shove them up your ass. I am not a religious person and do not worship the founding fathers. Times change and they would be sick if they could see how many folk in the ghettos die because of the stupid worship of a past that no longer has any reality. We are a military industrial state and you are nothing but a slave. You don't have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness because you don't even have the guarantee of a job and there's no free land to homestead. Money is now God and selling guns is all about money.
M: We live in a military industrial complex with the largest military in the world. We have nuclear weapons, poison gas, weaponized anthrax, sonic and laser weapons, aircraft carriers submarines and fleets of stealth bombers. Your hand gun doesn't mean shit.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
M: Join a well regulated militia, the army navy marines or air force.
"When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
M: Militia mob rabble because the well regulated part is out. Who are the well regulated militia should be the question.
"That the People have a right to keep and bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, composed of the Body of the People, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe Defense of a free state."
M: "Was" proper to the defense of the state, times change, and it was still referred to as trained in arms as a body that was regulated, not a bunch of gun religion nuts in their homes.
"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens."
M: Such an if will now never arise unless we are allowed to carry nukes, poison gas, sonic weapons, lasers etc. or hire an army from China.
"The said Constitution [shall] be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."
M: Gun regulation is attempted where the people aren't peaceful but are killing those who are and are prevented from doing so by the tyranny of a religious majority who worship a past that no longer applies.
"[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
They used to and now the horrible mischief results from those who have the guns.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
M: Crimes are created by law. Forbid law and there will be no crimes. Rural America has given way to large cities where the police perform this function. Times change.
"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves . . . and include all men capable of bearing arms. . . To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms... The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle."
M: Clearly the words of somebody who knew that a properly formed militia isn't in fact the people and wanted to pretend that is what was meant and another fool who wasn't being shot at by his own people.
The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to over-awe them."
M: Right, the army is terrified of hand guns because, some how, they can survive a nuke.
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American . . . . The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
M: We see again the obvious implication that the militia is not the people and the attempt to blur that fact.
"As the military forces which must occasionally be raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article (of amendment) in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
M: Occasionally arise? What a joke. We have a permanent military stationed here and all over the world, 24 7 for decades.
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power."
M: Right, except day by day we have become more a fascist state in spite of ourselves. This is a religious belief that has no bearing in reality at all. The people are asleep and there will be no revolution. Guns serve now to kill each other in the streets randomly.
In the last Supreme Court decision regarding the Second Amendment, UNITED STATES v. MILLER, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), the court stated this in their decision:
"The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense."
M: Good, that tells us that the individual gun owner in the personal use of his gun is not acting in concert with anybody for any defense of the nation and has no right to the use of a gun. You fail at reading comprehension.
A: As for your argument over the mention of a militia in the amendment:
First: The militia referred to in the Bill of Rights is every able bodied man able to take up arms. .
M: You mean, take up arms in concert with others in the common defense as in a mobilization of a citizen army. You fail at reading comprehension
A: What if this were an amendment?
"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the preservation of a free society, the right of the people to read and compose books shall not be infringed."
Would that mean only the well educated had the right to read and compose books???
Of course not. The right to read books applies to all so a well educated society could exist and preserve a free society (something that's failed you, obviously).
"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
M: What you fail to grasp is that to be well educated an individual effort must be made. To be well educated you have to educate yourself. But to be well regulated you have to be regulated by an external force. You need to be under command. Gun owners are under no body that regulates them or even unites them in some common defense. The time when that might have happened is gone. The only folk regulated now are the police and military. They can carry guns.
A: The Second Amendment CLEARLY applies to THE PEOPLE. Not a militia. It exists so a militia may be formed from amongst THE PEOPLE. And in EVERY other Amendment, "THE PEOPLE" are individual citizens. A militia is a collective. The PEOPLE are individuals.
M: Rubbish. The militia today doesn't use the guns it brings from home. The government buys they by the billions and equips them and does the training and regulating. The notion of gun ownership for common defense today is a total joke.
A: There is NO SUCH THING as a "collective right" nor is there ANY part of the Bill of Rights that grants rights to the government. No, the Bill of Rights exists to preserve INDIVIDUAL rights.
M: Have you been able to buy a nuke? If you can't own a nuke you have no right of self defense because only a nuke provide the MAD defense.
A: I want you to post ONE quote from a single founding father that shows otherwise. Just one.
Oh wait, you can't...
In short, you fail. Miserably. And so does the Author of the article you posted. "Dead heat" my ass.
M: I want you to show me one single quote from the founding fathers that supports the law where blacks are 2/3 rds of a person, or whatever it was.
You can take your quotes and shove them up your ass. I am not a religious person and do not worship the founding fathers. Times change and they would be sick if they could see how many folk in the ghettos die because of the stupid worship of a past that no longer has any reality. We are a military industrial state and you are nothing but a slave. You don't have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness because you don't even have the guarantee of a job and there's no free land to homestead. Money is now God and selling guns is all about money.