Can someone help me understand thinking that obesity is ok?

[SlitheryDee]

Why are you all so concerned about GeekDrew's weight? It doesn't affect you. I agree that being healthy is preferable to being fat, but you present the information and let people make their own choices about whether to follow it. You guys are like extreme Jehovah's Witnesses that absolutely refuse to take "no" for an answer. Some guy posts what I hope was a joke about "fatty labor camps" which has very obvious ties to the holocaust, GeekDrew mentions (correctly) that that sounds horrible, and he's wrong because you think fat people should be forced to be thin? The level of vitriol that some of you have for obese people is psychotic.

Yeah the fatty labor camp thing is stupid, but the concept is useful because basically no one will deny that such a thing would cause them to lose weight. Anyone can mentally put themselves in a hypothetical fat camp and come to their own individual conclusion that they would lose weight there. Conceivably that puts them on the path to formulating a plan that isn't that arduous, but may also work for them. If you want proof of concept go to the extreme example, then figure out what you can do short of that while still getting results.

The thing with Geekdrew isn't that anyone is all that worried about his weight. At least I'm not, but every time I see a post by him I want to reply to it. It's the particular excuses he uses to avoid dealing with it. Everything that might work is met with resistance that isn't really based in any kind of logical thinking. He throws up emotional barriers to all possible paths that frankly ring of nothing more than avoidance of discomfort, however momentary. It's a way of thinking that must be overcome.

We're males. All we know to do is try to come up with solutions to problems. We don't commiserate. We don't nod knowingly and pat you on the back. We worry away at the problem until the solution presents itself. Every time I read a post by him ALL I'm thinking is "What would be the way to inspire a person like this to get into shape". He wants that. He's never denied it, yet he has mental barriers erected at every step. That's evident in the way he resists all suggestions put forth to him.

 

[Safeway]

Agreed re: GeekDrew. I don't care that he is fat, but he has said multiple times that it is a miserable existence, that he doesn't want to be fat, etc. But, simultaneously, he lacks any and all motivation to change his weight, to change his outlook, to improve his life, etc. His counterarguments go against all logic, all reason, and, most importantly, all scientific literature. He is fat logic.

 

[disappoint]

oh gotcha. just what we need to do, take personal responsibility away from people yet again. it's not their fault they choose not to, it's everyone elses.

No I am not saying they are not responsible for their own well being. What I'm saying is some people are incapable of making the changes they want to make because they don't know how. If a solution doesn't address that then it is not a solution that works for everyone.

 

[TechBoyJK]

So, you're a closet fatty lover. Is this like people who are secretly gay but openly hate on gay people? :whiste:

I love all people. Even those who don't like what I have to say.

 

[TechBoyJK]

No I am not saying they are not responsible for their own well being. What I'm saying is some people are incapable of making the changes they want to make because they don't know how. If a solution doesn't address that then it is not a solution that works for everyone.

Many people are told how. They're given clear, accurate instructions on how to tackle their obesity, but they refuse to believe it will work, or try and make excuses as to why it won't work. It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't want to know.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

We're males. All we know to do is try to come up with solutions to problems. We don't commiserate. We don't nod knowingly and pat you on the back. We worry away at the problem until the solution presents itself. Every time I read a post by him ALL I'm thinking is "What would be the way to inspire a person like this to get into shape". He wants that. He's never denied it, yet he has mental barriers erected at every step. That's evident in the way he resists all suggestions put forth to him.

Fine, but at a certain point you also have to leave people free to make their own decisions, even if you think they are objectively bad ones. It's like convincing someone to join your religion. At a certain point, no matter how convinced you are that you are correct and offering good advice, you have to say, "fine, it's your choice," and let it be. And shaming, or telling people (even in a joking manner) that they need to be put in camps to fix them, is probably not the great motivator you're looking for. If you aren't willing to respect someone as a person, why should they bother taking your advice on anything? That's where the fat-shaming argument completely falls apart. It's not an effort to improve the lives of people who need help getting healthy, it's poking fun at people to feel better about one's self. So while there is an obvious truth about the need for obese people to lose weight to get healthier, and the truth in their ability to do so primarily being an issue of motivation and not genetics, taking the next step into mockery is self-defeating as an actual motivation strategy. But for plenty of people, these threads aren't about actually helping out people who need it, they're about an opportunity to make jokes about fatties. Being an asshole is a choice too, and it's arguably worse than being fat.

 

[Maximilian]

Many people are told how. They're given clear, accurate instructions on how to tackle their obesity, but they refuse to believe it will work, or try and make excuses as to why it won't work. It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't want to know.

They're too fucking stupid most of the time.

They cant count calories because they cant do basic math. They eat half a pie and never bother to look at the weight of the thing or the calories per 100g and work it out. Or they use dumbfuck logic like "bread is light so it probably only has a few calories" when its ~80-100 per slice. Or maybe lettuce and green foods "cancel out" calories from pizza and burgers etc... :whiste:

Its tough to blanket statement everyone but all of the fatties ive met are simply stupid as fuck. Or unwilling to learn, which is basically the same thing when you get down to it.

 

[Safeway]

They're too fucking stupid most of the time.

They cant count calories because they cant do basic math. They eat half a pie and never bother to look at the weight of the thing or the calories per 100g and work it out. Or they use dumbfuck logic like "bread is light so it probably only has a few calories" when its ~80-100 per slice. Or maybe lettuce and green foods "cancel out" calories from pizza and burgers etc... :whiste:

Its tough to blanket statement everyone but all of the fatties ive met are simply stupid as fuck. Or unwilling to learn, which is basically the same thing when you get down to it.

This quickly degraded from busting fat logic to falsely stereotyping all fat people as dumb fucks.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Fine, but at a certain point you also have to leave people free to make their own decisions, even if you think they are objectively bad ones. It's like convincing someone to join your religion. At a certain point, no matter how convinced you are that you are correct and offering good advice, you have to say, "fine, it's your choice," and let it be. And shaming, or telling people (even in a joking manner) that they need to be put in camps to fix them, is probably not the great motivator you're looking for. If you aren't willing to respect someone as a person, why should they bother taking your advice on anything? That's where the fat-shaming argument completely falls apart. It's not an effort to improve the lives of people who need help getting healthy, it's poking fun at people to feel better about one's self. So while there is an obvious truth about the need for obese people to lose weight to get healthier, and the truth in their ability to do so primarily being an issue of motivation and not genetics, taking the next step into mockery is self-defeating as an actual motivation strategy. But for plenty of people, these threads aren't about actually helping out people who need it, they're about an opportunity to make jokes about fatties. Being an asshole is a choice too, and it's arguably worse than being fat.

The problem with the #fatAcceptance movement is that it's greatly damaging to self motivation.

If you take a financially struggling person, and all they ever hear is 'its ok to be broke' 'you're fine the way you are', it works against their motivation to better themselves.

We don't need to fat shame people, but enabling them to stay fat by lying to them so their feelings don't get hurt is just as bad.

 

[Ackmed]

Calling someone a bigot for stating the fact that being morbidly obese is bad health, and puts a burden on tax payers is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on these forums.

 

[Safeway]

Calling someone a bigot for stating the fact that being morbidly obese is bad health, and puts a burden on tax payers is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on these forums.

Fat logic is the worst type of ATOT logic.

 

[nakedfrog]

So, 400+ posts later, I think we've pretty well answered Techboy's question.
Can someone help me understand thinking that obesity is ok?
The answer is a resounding "no, someone cannot".

 

[purbeast0]

No I am not saying they are not responsible for their own well being. What I'm saying is some people are incapable of making the changes they want to make because they don't know how. If a solution doesn't address that then it is not a solution that works for everyone.

wtf how is someone incapable of simply NOT eating way more than necessary?

newsflash - NOBODY is incapable of that. they CHOOSE not to do it.

but continue with the excuses.

 

[TechBoyJK]

wtf how is someone incapable of simply NOT eating way more than necessary?

newsflash - NOBODY is incapable of that. they CHOOSE not to do it.

but continue with the excuses.

 

[Kaido]

Yeah the fatty labor camp thing is stupid, but the concept is useful because basically no one will deny that such a thing would cause them to lose weight.

The problem is that fat is controlled by food, not exercise. There are plenty of the people at the gym who do hours of cardio every week & never lose a pound because they refuse to change their diet.

 

[ImpulsE69]

wtf how is someone incapable of simply NOT eating way more than necessary?

newsflash - NOBODY is incapable of that. they CHOOSE not to do it.

but continue with the excuses.

Moderation is not something everyone is capable of keeping at. This is why there are so many types of addiction, some peoples is food, some peoples is exercise, some peoples is penis.

Thus why I have little patience for people with narrow minds. Typically the people most vocally opposed to something that has so little impact on them have something someone else would oppose that they feel ashamed about, so its a bit of hypocrisy. No one is perfect.

For instance, I wasn't aware of any crusade of fat people until this thread called it out. Only someone with a problem with fat people would create a thread such as this, unless they were just looking to troll...which I think we've established that isn't what is going on here.

 

[TheGardener]

I'll bet if we replace the graduated income tax with a graduated weight tax, then everyone will want to look like a starving runway model.

 

[GeekDrew]

Yeah the fatty labor camp thing is stupid, but the concept is useful because basically no one will deny that such a thing would cause them to lose weight. Anyone can mentally put themselves in a hypothetical fat camp and come to their own individual conclusion that they would lose weight there. Conceivably that puts them on the path to formulating a plan that isn't that arduous, but may also work for them. If you want proof of concept go to the extreme example, then figure out what you can do short of that while still getting results.

The thing with Geekdrew isn't that anyone is all that worried about his weight. At least I'm not, but every time I see a post by him I want to reply to it. It's the particular excuses he uses to avoid dealing with it. Everything that might work is met with resistance that isn't really based in any kind of logical thinking. He throws up emotional barriers to all possible paths that frankly ring of nothing more than avoidance of discomfort, however momentary. It's a way of thinking that must be overcome.

We're males. All we know to do is try to come up with solutions to problems. We don't commiserate. We don't nod knowingly and pat you on the back. We worry away at the problem until the solution presents itself. Every time I read a post by him ALL I'm thinking is "What would be the way to inspire a person like this to get into shape". He wants that. He's never denied it, yet he has mental barriers erected at every step. That's evident in the way he resists all suggestions put forth to him.

Well, you almost hit the nail on the head. The question isn't so much "What would be the way to inspire a person like this to get into shape" as "What would be the way to prove to a person like this that there is a reason they should care?" That's the whole reason why I've said that it's deeper than merely a weight problem.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Well, you almost hit the nail on the head. The question isn't so much "What would be the way to inspire a person like this to get into shape" as "What would be the way to prove to a person like this that there is a reason they should care?" That's the whole reason why I've said that it's deeper than merely a weight problem.

Not only that, what can we say to someone who's taking on habits and lifestyle changes that will lead to them being obese? People like Tess Munster aren't helping. I can get fat and it doesn't matter! I can still be healthy! Who cares if I just put on 35 pounds of fat, it's ok!

But, it's not ok. #fatAcceptance is based on lies. Easily proven lies.

Part of the wisdom in rejecting #fatAcceptance is prevent future obesity. If it's socially acceptable to get shit faced drunk every night and drive around, and nobody is going to blame you for the consequences, far more people will be out drinking.

We shame drunk driving yet, IIRC, far more people die from obesity.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

We shame drunk driving yet, IIRC, far more people die from obesity.

We shame drunk driving because it has the potential to kill other people. If obese people tripping and crushing random passers-by was a common occurrence, it would make more sense to shame it (or make it illegal, like drunk driving).

 

[bradley]

The problem is that fat is controlled by food, not exercise. There are plenty of the people at the gym who do hours of cardio every week & never lose a pound because they refuse to change their diet.

I agree, but it's because they choose the wrong aerobic exercise. They wear down their bodies, eventually losing more muscle mass and water volume than fat in the process.

Do you want to lose body fat? You want to maximize your exercise and minimize the time. Go high intensity interval training three times a week, eat copious leafy green vegetables and veggies in general, lower or eliminate refined carbs, go higher on carbs on those active days, get .8 grams of protein per lb of body weight and never look back. Most importantly you want to train hard and then rest even harder.

Most days I fast for 6-8 waking hours before even taking the first bite of food. I hit the gym and complete all other activities on an empty stomach. Yet I always have plenty of energy, strength and vigor.

My body has adapted to burning body fat instead of carbs for fuel. Hit this point and change your lifestyle and suddenly eating supermarket faux-food deservedly becomes a repellent anathema.

Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

 

[TechBoyJK]

We shame drunk driving because it has the potential to kill other people. If obese people tripping and crushing random passers-by was a common occurrence, it would make more sense to shame it (or make it illegal, like drunk driving).

That's not just why we shame drunk driving. It's that you'll hurt yourself too. Or do damage to other people's property.

It's simply that you become a liability to society because you drink too much.

Obesity is no different, it just often takes much longer for the damages to become evident.

 

[bradley]

Obesity is no different, it just often takes much longer for the damages to become evident.

Your expressed opinion merely shows your own lack of discipline. The perceptible damage and active threat is all in your head. The mitigating factor is these overweight people consuming ten times the food average is an overall net positive the economy.

Capitalism was built on gluttony. More money is to be made on the illness than the cure, only the ignorant believe otherwise.

I personally don't like overconsumption of any kind. Just as men sitting on their asses all day playing violent video games, downloading porn and movies creates these hyperaggressive man-children stick figure bags of estrogen with pot bellies and fatty livers. I just choose to live my life otherwise.

 

[SlitheryDee]

The problem is that fat is controlled by food, not exercise. There are plenty of the people at the gym who do hours of cardio every week & never lose a pound because they refuse to change their diet.

Seems to me that one of the main reasons one would go to a fat camp is to give over control of your diet to the camp administrators for the time that you are there. You're stuck there, so you have to eat what they feed you. Otherwise why not just stay at home at night and go see a trainer that pushes you to work out during the day?

Of course that does little to teach someone how to form healthy habits on their own. Like I said, it only really has value as a kind of proof of concept for people who for some reason think they are physiologically incapable of losing the weight.

 

[GeekDrew]

Agreed re: GeekDrew. I don't care that he is fat, but he has said multiple times that it is a miserable existence, that he doesn't want to be fat, etc. But, simultaneously, he lacks any and all motivation to change his weight, to change his outlook, to improve his life, etc. His counterarguments go against all logic, all reason, and, most importantly, all scientific literature. He is fat logic.

Which of my statements directly counter scientific literature? Logic and reason is subjective - or, at least in this case, based upon a potentially faulty set of assumptions.