You?re kidding?.right?
- Using government resources for criminal activity (being a legitimate political party is not a basis for being bugged/wiretapped and burglarized; Nixon did it for inside information and dirt, plain and simple)
- Obstruction of justice as others have pointed out. Nixon had no basis for outright LYING to have any knowledge or connection to the Watergate burglars, and even went so far as to order his attorney general to remove the special prosecutor investigating Watergate. Although the AG resigned, an eventual replacement did fire the special prosecutor who was doing his JOB, and this later became known as the ?Saturday Night Massacre?. Not to mention the attempts at paying off the burglars to buy their silence....
To me, Nixon was a very astute politician and thinker, but his paranoia and obsession with secrecy and lying doomed him. And people who don't see the harm or danger in Watergate are either uninformed, or very very delusional.
As a sidenote, it's no secret that Nixon was racist, or at the very least spoke derogatory towards Jews and minorities.
listen to tape 33 conversation 108 where he makes reference to Jews.
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/fo...es/tape033/tape033.php
also bearing on nixon's character would be certain tapes played at the Watergate trial, such as conversation 428-19
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/fo.../trial/transcripts.php
note that these links are at the official presidential library of Nixon website, a National Archives and Records Administration site.
any more 'tainted source' complaints?
- Using government resources for criminal activity (being a legitimate political party is not a basis for being bugged/wiretapped and burglarized; Nixon did it for inside information and dirt, plain and simple)
- Obstruction of justice as others have pointed out. Nixon had no basis for outright LYING to have any knowledge or connection to the Watergate burglars, and even went so far as to order his attorney general to remove the special prosecutor investigating Watergate. Although the AG resigned, an eventual replacement did fire the special prosecutor who was doing his JOB, and this later became known as the ?Saturday Night Massacre?. Not to mention the attempts at paying off the burglars to buy their silence....
To me, Nixon was a very astute politician and thinker, but his paranoia and obsession with secrecy and lying doomed him. And people who don't see the harm or danger in Watergate are either uninformed, or very very delusional.
As a sidenote, it's no secret that Nixon was racist, or at the very least spoke derogatory towards Jews and minorities.
listen to tape 33 conversation 108 where he makes reference to Jews.
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/fo...es/tape033/tape033.php
also bearing on nixon's character would be certain tapes played at the Watergate trial, such as conversation 428-19
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/fo.../trial/transcripts.php
note that these links are at the official presidential library of Nixon website, a National Archives and Records Administration site.
any more 'tainted source' complaints?
He subverted democracy.
Spied on Americans.
Supported Dictators and Coups.
Alcoholic.
Kissinger was his SoS.
Liar.
The list goes on and on. Nixon was no idiot, he was probably our most intelligent President, but he was also paranoid and had a lot of inner demons.
I think he had the chance to be a great leader but he blew it.
Spied on Americans.
Supported Dictators and Coups.
Alcoholic.
Kissinger was his SoS.
Liar.
The list goes on and on. Nixon was no idiot, he was probably our most intelligent President, but he was also paranoid and had a lot of inner demons.
I think he had the chance to be a great leader but he blew it.
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
AnitaPeterson
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
- 6,022
- 561
- 126
Let's not forget some others of Nixon's greatest accomplishments, which should ring a bell for us today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian_Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian_Agreement
Are you describing bush - our current gem of a president?
[Except kissinger and the chance to be a great leader - there was never any possibility of this.]
He cut us off from the gold standard. He was as economically fiscal as any deadbeat friend you may have.
All right, you got me. I have no idea what you're referring to.
You really have been kidding or you're deep into a butterbean impersonation?
And my favorite color is green. Did you want to discuss this?
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
All those tapes were created via computers in an ongoing effort to disgrace this great Republican. The fact that it is maintained and hosted by the very government that orchestrated his downfall is a testament to this fact.
Onceler posted this thread for a purpose, to cut through the lies and slander about a president that any school child knows about. Everybody knows about Watergate and the ensuing coverup that brought down Nixon. Why not? It's embedded into every textbook in our schools and is ingrained in the citizen's minds through repeated references in popular media like TV, print, and movies. I think he came in here to get the real story. The story of an honorable God fearing man whose campaign to suppress global Communism was brought down by a complex intrigue orchestrated by the Democratic party. If the Democrats weren't a threat to the US and freedom, why would Nixon have them bugged in the first place?
How do you know this? Are you and Onceler working this thread in tandem?
What about the people who were alive when this took place? They didn't get it from text books. They got it from news outlets and people who worked in d.c. at the time. You have heard of g.gordon liddy, right? He doesn't deny any of it. In fact, he's made quite a bit of money as a result of it.
Now, this is so ridiculous that it makes me think you're kidding again.
The rest of this is just blathering idiocy. Take your god that people are supposed to be afraid of and your communist fantasies and disappear, please. Jesus fucking christ, just incredible.
I've long recognized that pretty much all history is subject to revisionism and distortion.
Remember back when Newt Gingrich put out his 'Contract with America' and had a huge electoral win, endorsing that agenda?
The fact is, only 30% of voters had even *heard* of the document- it was rather a brilliant political maneuver by Gingrich to get his agenda in place.
History has accomodated him by the document being a key element in why they won, and it was very effective at the time in taking the leadership of the natinal agenda out of the hands of Bill Clinton - as the press mused about his 'irrelevancy' and how the nation had 'moved past the president being that important a figure' - and while it checked to see which of his plan items had been passed or not.
Even something as clear as Nixon's shameful presidency is subject to revision. And so it's our duty as custodians of history, collectively, to battle the liars.
Born2bwire is an especially clumsy and transparent distorter, and easily brushed off. Not all are so obvious. There are always ongoing efforts to distort going on, like, say, the National Review, who build a niche base of people who are convinced that popular culture has terribly wronged people like Nixon.
Some are not so lazy, and read acccurate history and understand the errors of the false revionists (I don't simply say revisionists, as some revision is correct). Others who are that lazy post threads like this. What can we do but spend the time reciting accurate history which is usually wasted time, or pointing them to better history they ignore?
Most issues are more complex that popularly understood. You can read tens of thousands of things, which when selectively applie can paint all kinds of pictures.
But my view of Nixon includes the following:
- I've seen evidence suggesting he or his top people sabotaged the LBJ peace talks with Viet Nam, by promising the South Vietnamese things for refusing to agree. Reports say the LBJ administration was dumbfounded by the South Vietnamese response. If accurate, these actions are treasonous and murderous IMO.
- Nixon once said - after his presidency to David Frost - that he believed any action the president took by definition made that action legal. This is the very definition of 'above the law'. His administration's actions reflected that view, and many of his policies were IMO wrong.
- In particular, his police to overthrow democracy in Chile was horrific, leading to the installation of dictatorship, crushing economic policies (good for the US), and thousands of innocent people killed for maintaining the state of terror needed for the regime to keep control.
- There was a 'culture of corruption' during his presidency. His problems seemed to affect the nation, as group after group turned to violence and terror for their own means, while he used them for his. It was an era of official corruption as well, such as the Cointelpro operation. It was a bizarre time of Nixon having Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office broken into, while singer Grace Slick plotted to use an invitation to a White House event from having a coincidental connection to put LSD in the president's drink.
It was a time of top state and defense officials placing spies in one another's camps, of hyper-politicization and bureacratic paralysis.
It's not healthy when the president's top advisors regularly decide his orders are not ones that should be carried out and ignore them; Haig blocked the use of the nuclear suitcase at one point. There are reports during watergate of the president wandering the White House drunkenly talking to portraits - not just one time, repeatedly.
- There's a lot of corruption not well known any longer - read up on Nixon and his 'best friend' Bebe Robozo and BCCI for more.
But none of that was why he was removed (after having been re-elected by the biggest margin in history at the time, a big condemnation of our democracy.)
He did approve the Watergate break-in, an insider has confessed (see the PBS Documentary '25 years after Watergate' at the very end). He clearly participated in the cover-up. The issue was that the president abused the issue of national security to order the CIA to provide 'cover' for the break-in by getting the FBI to back off investigating it by saying it was a security matter - and of course lying about his doing so. He was getting away with it had there not been tapes proving his crimes, amazingly, made and exposed.
One of the lessons is just how much the president can get away with without any accountability, especially when the administration's standard operating procedure is to do all its wrongs with a requirement of 'plausible deniability' specifically to hide the president's role and let him say credibly he was not involved.
I once visited the Nixon Library, and made a point of using the men's room, specifically to send a symbolic statement.
It's sad for history that the family was able to destroy so much from the tapes. They're a great bit of insight into the 'real' oval office.
Perhaps the most mystrious bit of the story, though, is in how Nixon got the CIA to help him with the lie, as documented here.
Remember back when Newt Gingrich put out his 'Contract with America' and had a huge electoral win, endorsing that agenda?
The fact is, only 30% of voters had even *heard* of the document- it was rather a brilliant political maneuver by Gingrich to get his agenda in place.
History has accomodated him by the document being a key element in why they won, and it was very effective at the time in taking the leadership of the natinal agenda out of the hands of Bill Clinton - as the press mused about his 'irrelevancy' and how the nation had 'moved past the president being that important a figure' - and while it checked to see which of his plan items had been passed or not.
Even something as clear as Nixon's shameful presidency is subject to revision. And so it's our duty as custodians of history, collectively, to battle the liars.
Born2bwire is an especially clumsy and transparent distorter, and easily brushed off. Not all are so obvious. There are always ongoing efforts to distort going on, like, say, the National Review, who build a niche base of people who are convinced that popular culture has terribly wronged people like Nixon.
Some are not so lazy, and read acccurate history and understand the errors of the false revionists (I don't simply say revisionists, as some revision is correct). Others who are that lazy post threads like this. What can we do but spend the time reciting accurate history which is usually wasted time, or pointing them to better history they ignore?
Most issues are more complex that popularly understood. You can read tens of thousands of things, which when selectively applie can paint all kinds of pictures.
But my view of Nixon includes the following:
- I've seen evidence suggesting he or his top people sabotaged the LBJ peace talks with Viet Nam, by promising the South Vietnamese things for refusing to agree. Reports say the LBJ administration was dumbfounded by the South Vietnamese response. If accurate, these actions are treasonous and murderous IMO.
- Nixon once said - after his presidency to David Frost - that he believed any action the president took by definition made that action legal. This is the very definition of 'above the law'. His administration's actions reflected that view, and many of his policies were IMO wrong.
- In particular, his police to overthrow democracy in Chile was horrific, leading to the installation of dictatorship, crushing economic policies (good for the US), and thousands of innocent people killed for maintaining the state of terror needed for the regime to keep control.
- There was a 'culture of corruption' during his presidency. His problems seemed to affect the nation, as group after group turned to violence and terror for their own means, while he used them for his. It was an era of official corruption as well, such as the Cointelpro operation. It was a bizarre time of Nixon having Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office broken into, while singer Grace Slick plotted to use an invitation to a White House event from having a coincidental connection to put LSD in the president's drink.
It was a time of top state and defense officials placing spies in one another's camps, of hyper-politicization and bureacratic paralysis.
It's not healthy when the president's top advisors regularly decide his orders are not ones that should be carried out and ignore them; Haig blocked the use of the nuclear suitcase at one point. There are reports during watergate of the president wandering the White House drunkenly talking to portraits - not just one time, repeatedly.
- There's a lot of corruption not well known any longer - read up on Nixon and his 'best friend' Bebe Robozo and BCCI for more.
But none of that was why he was removed (after having been re-elected by the biggest margin in history at the time, a big condemnation of our democracy.)
He did approve the Watergate break-in, an insider has confessed (see the PBS Documentary '25 years after Watergate' at the very end). He clearly participated in the cover-up. The issue was that the president abused the issue of national security to order the CIA to provide 'cover' for the break-in by getting the FBI to back off investigating it by saying it was a security matter - and of course lying about his doing so. He was getting away with it had there not been tapes proving his crimes, amazingly, made and exposed.
One of the lessons is just how much the president can get away with without any accountability, especially when the administration's standard operating procedure is to do all its wrongs with a requirement of 'plausible deniability' specifically to hide the president's role and let him say credibly he was not involved.
I once visited the Nixon Library, and made a point of using the men's room, specifically to send a symbolic statement.
It's sad for history that the family was able to destroy so much from the tapes. They're a great bit of insight into the 'real' oval office.
Perhaps the most mystrious bit of the story, though, is in how Nixon got the CIA to help him with the lie, as documented here.
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
k. I can relate to transformative hermeneutics of quantum gravity. But, I usually delve into it with an itch that needs to be satisfied. What's yours?
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
As the twig is bent so grows the child is maybe the best way to describe Nixon. Or alternately that he was not human, but some foundling left by space aliens, seemingly human, but something was always clearly missing. With some what of a valid comparison with Tom Riddle of Harry Potter fame. And the Dumbledore lesson applies, Potter you have something the dark Lord lacks, the capacity to love being it.
Ever since his birth in Wittier, California, Nixon always acutely felt the inferiority his humble birth implied. And maybe a way of deception became his way to compensate when he should have used his intellectuals gifts instead. I have made somewhat of a study of Nixon and have to be quite impressed with his wide ranging knowledge, during the 50's and 60's, one could ask him a question about any country in the world, and set a 30 minute or longer time limit, and Nixon could rattle off all the statistics, who was who, what political movements had what sway, what the neighbors were doing, and finish a brilliant analysis with less than 30 seconds to spare. And that analysis would have no political spin.
Yet at the same time, he could visit fellow republican leaders in the hospital, do all the obligatory things, yet when he was in the hospital, not a single get well card did he receive.
The story of Richard Nixon almost makes one believe in Karma or Puritan predestination. If only Nixon did not lack humanity, he could have been a great human being.
Ever since his birth in Wittier, California, Nixon always acutely felt the inferiority his humble birth implied. And maybe a way of deception became his way to compensate when he should have used his intellectuals gifts instead. I have made somewhat of a study of Nixon and have to be quite impressed with his wide ranging knowledge, during the 50's and 60's, one could ask him a question about any country in the world, and set a 30 minute or longer time limit, and Nixon could rattle off all the statistics, who was who, what political movements had what sway, what the neighbors were doing, and finish a brilliant analysis with less than 30 seconds to spare. And that analysis would have no political spin.
Yet at the same time, he could visit fellow republican leaders in the hospital, do all the obligatory things, yet when he was in the hospital, not a single get well card did he receive.
The story of Richard Nixon almost makes one believe in Karma or Puritan predestination. If only Nixon did not lack humanity, he could have been a great human being.
And a nobel list it was.. :thumbsup:
Nixon's Enemies List included:- World renowned heart surgeon, Dr. Michael DeBakey, a pioneer in development of an artificial heart.
- Award winning chemist, novelist, and playwright, Carl Djerassi. President Nixon awarded him the National Medal of Science while he was on the Enemies List.
- Actor, Paul Newman, who used his good fortune to found Newman's Own Foods and gave 100% of the profits to charity. Newman stated that his inclusion on the list was one of his greatest accomplishments. :laugh:
- Award winning journalist, Daniel Schorr, who first learned he was on Nixon's list as he read the names on the air. Daniel Schorr is one of my personal heros.
Originally posted by: Harvey
Ahh.. yes. All them conservative, right wing cauzes.
But he made up for it as a racist and anti-semitic bigot and ethical turd who shredded the Constitution.
Get down on your knees and pray, Jewboy!
CallMeJoe
Diamond Member
- Jul 30, 2004
- 6,938
- 5
- 81
Making Nixon's enemies list was indeed a great honor to most of those listed; one irony of the time was the abject disappointment of those who found themselves not listed.Originally posted by: Harvey
And a nobel list it was.. :thumbsup:There are many more of that calibre, including accomplished legislators, entertainers, labor and business leaders One of my secret fantasies at the time was to be able to do something significant enough to make that list.
- World renowned heart surgeon, Dr. Michael DeBakey, a pioneer in development of an artificial heart.
- Award winning chemist, novelist, and playwright, Carl Djerassi. President Nixon awarded him the National Medal of Science while he was on the Enemies List.
- Actor, Paul Newman, who used his good fortune to found Newman's Own Foods and gave 100% of the profits to charity. Newman stated that his inclusion on the list was one of his greatest accomplishments. :laugh:
- Award winning journalist, Daniel Schorr, who first learned he was on Nixon's list as he read the names on the air. Daniel Schorr is one of my personal heros.
FWIW, I thought President Nixon among our best on foreign policy (with the one glaring exception of VietNam). His policy of Detente with the Soviet Union was crucial to the eventual collapse of the Eastern Bloc, and as Mister Spock so pithily stated, "Only Nixon could go to China".
His domestic policy, by contrast, ranks him among our worst, including domestic spying on a scale (so far as we now know) not equaled by even W and Company and his wage and price freeze that so warped the U.S. economy that we still felt effects of its "stagflation" through the Carter years.
I also note his disservice to the nation as a leader of HUAC during the McCarthy days, an infamous history of "Dirty Tricks" campaigning from his first Senate run (the "Pink Lady" campaign against Helen Gahagan Douglas) and his utter corruption of the justice department during his presidency.
Originally posted by: Harvey
And a nobel list it was.. :thumbsup:There are many more of that calibre, including accomplished legislators, entertainers, labor and business leaders One of my secret fantasies at the time was to be able to do something significant enough to make that list.
- World renowned heart surgeon, Dr. Michael DeBakey, a pioneer in development of an artificial heart.
- Award winning chemist, novelist, and playwright, Carl Djerassi. President Nixon awarded him the National Medal of Science while he was on the Enemies List.
- Actor, Paul Newman, who used his good fortune to found Newman's Own Foods and gave 100% of the profits to charity. Newman stated that his inclusion on the list was one of his greatest accomplishments. :laugh:
- Award winning journalist, Daniel Schorr, who first learned he was on Nixon's list as he read the names on the air. Daniel Schorr is one of my personal heros.
Don't forget John Kerry, who Nixon was personally aware of as a threat to him politically, and for whom he recruited someone to go around challenging Kerry everywhere.
Thst same guy who Nixon recruited was still falsely attacking Kerry as of the 2004 presidential campaign.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 403
-
Facebook
Twitter