Can someone explain homosexuality to me?

[FrodoB]

Everyone is talking about homosexual marriage. But it seems like many of us, myself included, don't really understand the nature of homosexuality. Is it a decision to be gay or is it in the genetics of a person? Have there been many studies done regarding this? I never made a decision to be straight. I've loved women (I'm a male) since I was a little kid. Do homosexuals start having homosexual feelings in their early childhood?
I think that IF it can be proven to be in the "genetics" of a person, all arguments about homosexuality being "against God" are illogical. Why would God create a person that is against God's nature? It doesn't make sense. Speaking of logic, it also doesn't make sense that God can be against any form of true love.

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
Everyone is talking about homosexual marriage. But it seems like many of us, myself included, don't really understand the nature of homosexuality. Is it a decision to be gay or is it in the genetics of a person? Have there been many studies done regarding this? I never made a decision to be straight. I've loved women (I'm a male) since I was a little kid. Do homosexuals start having homosexual feelings in their early childhood?
I think that IF it can be proven to be in the "genetics" of a person, all arguments about homosexuality being "against God" are illogical. Why would God create a person that is against God's nature? It doesn't make sense. Speaking of logic, it also doesn't make sense that God can be against any form of true love.

Bingo. You are enlightened by your higher power. Keep the faith!

BTW, do you think gays would put themselves through all this grief if they felt they could be happy as a hetrosexual? Not a chance. They have no choice in who they are. God may have made them to test the faith of all of us. Sit back and watch who shows compassion and the Love of Christ as you see the the answers to your post. Then you will know, grasshopper.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I think all these threads should start with "YAGT:" like ATOT does - except these would mean: "Yet Another Gay Thread" (or YAHT if you want to be a little more politically correct)

CkG

 

[TheBDB]

I've read about a theory that higher than normal levels of estrogen in the fetus during brain development can cause the brain to be wired more "feminine". I don't know if that is the cause or genetics or a combination of things, but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

 

[Tab]

Yes, but in no way does the bible approve of gay sex. You can be gay, just don't peform gay acts.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: TheBDB
but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

nature vs nurture.

is one genetically predisposed to be a murderer? how about a theif? what about a geek/nerd/dork?
my take on it is that our personalities are shaped by our concious and unconcious decisions, based on our surroundings, backgrounds, and how we were raised, not to mention our experiences all throughout life. one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.

but, seeing as how my view isnt accepted by a lot of members here, ill likely be called a bigot because i dont believe homosexuality is genetic [and thus cant be helped and should be accepted and tolerated]

 

[datalink7]

To me, it seems simple.

If homosexuality was a choice, I could go suck a guys dick right now and enjoy doing it.

I don't see that happening. I don't think I could choose to enjoy that.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
Everyone is talking about homosexual marriage. But it seems like many of us, myself included, don't really understand the nature of homosexuality. Is it a decision to be gay or is it in the genetics of a person? Have there been many studies done regarding this? I never made a decision to be straight. I've loved women (I'm a male) since I was a little kid. Do homosexuals start having homosexual feelings in their early childhood?
I think that IF it can be proven to be in the "genetics" of a person, all arguments about homosexuality being "against God" are illogical. Why would God create a person that is against God's nature? It doesn't make sense. Speaking of logic, it also doesn't make sense that God can be against any form of true love.

actually we are all "against God's nature". ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. the debate is still out on genetics and either way it is a moot point.

however we all have choice, one person may be predisposed toward alcoholism(even genetically) and still choose not to drink. as far as making sense of it all... there are many things i do not understand, but i do understand he thinks differently than i do, and that how he chose to make creation may not pass my "logic test" although it may make perfect sense to Him. the bible quotes God as saying "my ways are not your ways, my thoughts are not your thoughts." this was demonstrated by Jesus, the "savior" the "messiah" everyone thought(and some such as the orthodox jews still do) that he would be a mighty warrior that would come and save the nation of israel from it's enemies. everyone thought it would be the destruction/expulsion of the romans because the prophecies of daniel put the birth at the time Jesus was born. but God had a different idea, he sent Jesus(Himself) to die.. the enemy was sin, not the romans the "mighty savior" a carpenter whose ultimate puprose was to die a gruesome and tortorous death. many reject jesus as messiah because he was not what they expected. they make the same mistake many do...the same mistake i made for along time myself.

they think God sees things the way they do. and some reject God because they are angry god did not craft the universe they way they think he ought to ahve done it.

i know an EX-homosexual, many homosexuals tell you this is not possible, but for an impossibility there sure are alot of them.

that is an interesting phrase "true" love. is true love somehow objective? and if it is then also the truth of what love is would be absolute since it would be the standard by which all other forms of love would be compared and thus deemed "true" or untrue.

 

[NonSequiter]

If homosexuality was a choice, I could go suck a guys dick right now and enjoy doing it.

I don't see that happening. I don't think I could choose to enjoy that.

Don't see which part happening, the doing or the enjoying?

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB
but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

nature vs nurture.

is one genetically predisposed to be a murderer? how about a theif? what about a geek/nerd/dork?
my take on it is that our personalities are shaped by our concious and unconcious decisions, based on our surroundings, backgrounds, and how we were raised, not to mention our experiences all throughout life. one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.

but, seeing as how my view isnt accepted by a lot of members here, ill likely be called a bigot because i dont believe homosexuality is genetic [and thus cant be helped and should be accepted and tolerated]

I agree with some of what you say, so maybe you can help me understand why you diverge. People do have genetic dispositons and are affected by the environment they live in. People do need to resist temptations to steal, rape, and murder, because these things hurt other people and we cannot allow them. Where we diverge is one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.. I simply don't see why homosexuals need to seek help, or why you think they can't live normal, healthy, socially productive lives.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: datalink7
To me, it seems simple.

If homosexuality was a choice, I could go suck a guys dick right now and enjoy doing it.

I don't see that happening. I don't think I could choose to enjoy that.

many people who cannot stand the taste of apple do not comprehend how others enjoy them.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: TheBDB

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB
but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

nature vs nurture.

is one genetically predisposed to be a murderer? how about a theif? what about a geek/nerd/dork?
my take on it is that our personalities are shaped by our concious and unconcious decisions, based on our surroundings, backgrounds, and how we were raised, not to mention our experiences all throughout life. one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.

but, seeing as how my view isnt accepted by a lot of members here, ill likely be called a bigot because i dont believe homosexuality is genetic [and thus cant be helped and should be accepted and tolerated]

I agree with some of what you say, so maybe you can help me understand why you diverge. People do have genetic dispositons and are affected by the environment they live in. People do need to resist temptations to steal, rape, and murder, because these things hurt other people and we cannot allow them. Where we diverge is one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.. I simply don't see why homosexuals need to seek help, or why you think they can't live normal, healthy, socially productive lives.

so, because its not an outwardly destructive habit, its ok?

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: datalink7
To me, it seems simple.

If homosexuality was a choice, I could go suck a guys dick right now and enjoy doing it.

I don't see that happening. I don't think I could choose to enjoy that.

many people who cannot stand the taste of apple do not comprehend how others enjoy them.

lol!

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB
but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

nature vs nurture.

is one genetically predisposed to be a murderer? how about a theif? what about a geek/nerd/dork?
my take on it is that our personalities are shaped by our concious and unconcious decisions, based on our surroundings, backgrounds, and how we were raised, not to mention our experiences all throughout life. one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.

but, seeing as how my view isnt accepted by a lot of members here, ill likely be called a bigot because i dont believe homosexuality is genetic [and thus cant be helped and should be accepted and tolerated]

I agree with some of what you say, so maybe you can help me understand why you diverge. People do have genetic dispositons and are affected by the environment they live in. People do need to resist temptations to steal, rape, and murder, because these things hurt other people and we cannot allow them. Where we diverge is one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.. I simply don't see why homosexuals need to seek help, or why you think they can't live normal, healthy, socially productive lives.

so, because its not an outwardly destructive habit, its ok?

smoking and drinking are legal. one could EASILY make the case that BOTH smoking and drinking are greater threats to society than homosexuality EVER will be. so leaving aside your biblical arguments, what exactly is it about homosexuality that puts it ABOVE smoking and drinking on your agenda?

 

[sMiLeYz]

I have friends who are openly gay, I've asked them do you want to be straight? He said to me....

"Hell yes, things would be alot easier. Being gay is something I don't wish upon someone. You'll only understand if you have to live with hiding it from your parents, and your friends."

That speaks volumes more than what any scientific study or what some one "thinks" is the right answer.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB
but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

nature vs nurture.

is one genetically predisposed to be a murderer? how about a theif? what about a geek/nerd/dork?
my take on it is that our personalities are shaped by our concious and unconcious decisions, based on our surroundings, backgrounds, and how we were raised, not to mention our experiences all throughout life. one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.

but, seeing as how my view isnt accepted by a lot of members here, ill likely be called a bigot because i dont believe homosexuality is genetic [and thus cant be helped and should be accepted and tolerated]

I agree with some of what you say, so maybe you can help me understand why you diverge. People do have genetic dispositons and are affected by the environment they live in. People do need to resist temptations to steal, rape, and murder, because these things hurt other people and we cannot allow them. Where we diverge is one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.. I simply don't see why homosexuals need to seek help, or why you think they can't live normal, healthy, socially productive lives.

so, because its not an outwardly destructive habit, its ok?

smoking and drinking are legal. one could EASILY make the case that BOTH smoking and drinking are greater threats to society than homosexuality EVER will be. so leaving aside your biblical arguments, what exactly is it about homosexuality that puts it ABOVE smoking and drinking on your agenda?

i never advocated smoking and drinking being legal, now did i? im also not arguing that homosexuality be illegal. thats where youre getting away from the argument. responsible drinking is ok. i dont think there is such a thing as responsible smoking, but considerate smoking is fantastic! homosexuals should also be considerate to those of us who arent, and keep to themselves, much like us straight people do. you can do whatever the hell you want in the privacy of your own home [as long as its legal]. Just make sure that if youre going to divulge your private secrets that the audiance isnt going to be offended, otherwise youre being quite inconsiderate and rude.

 

[Shad0hawK]

no one has asked the obvious question.

if homsexuality is genetic, is it a genetic defect?

what about bi-sexuality? is there a gene for that too?

many gays say you are either gay or your not, but there are people who are turned on by other people no matter how they are equipped.

 

[happyhelper]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: TheBDB
but I certainly don't believe it is a conscious choice.

nature vs nurture.

is one genetically predisposed to be a murderer? how about a theif? what about a geek/nerd/dork?
my take on it is that our personalities are shaped by our concious and unconcious decisions, based on our surroundings, backgrounds, and how we were raised, not to mention our experiences all throughout life. one can choose to indulge in homosexuality, or one can choose to resist and seek help, and hopefully, live a normal, healthy, socially productive life.

but, seeing as how my view isnt accepted by a lot of members here, ill likely be called a bigot because i dont believe homosexuality is genetic [and thus cant be helped and should be accepted and tolerated]

There are (and have been since the existence of genes was discovered) all sorts of theories that say alcoholism, homosexuality, chronic depression and a myriad of other physical and mental illnesses are rooted in the genes that were passed on to a person by their parents. As yet, there has been no scientific evidence to prove all these theories (some of which are more plausible than others).

As recently as 30 years ago, the American Psychological Association classified homosexuality as a mental illness. They have changed their stance on that due to more information becoming available (in other words - discoveries that have been made in a scientific or pseudo-scientific way that disproved common myths and misconceptions about homosexuality that were prevalent in the past (and still are among many here, apparently)). Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness or defect of character by any legitimate, well-established phsychological or psychiatric institution or group.

But still, the idea that homosexuality is "genetic" is still only purely theoretical, still unproven and still can't be accepted as fact. A lot of people (mostly those who don't have a problem with other people being homosexual) have accepted "they were born that way" as fact. Neither you or I have accepted that, but I still don't have a problem with other people being homosexual. You imply that homosexuality is a disorder or mental weakness by saying a homosexual can "seek help [in order to] live a normal, healthy, socially productive life". You contradict what the majority of science believes and theorizes to be true. My view is that even if homosexuality is "a choice" (subconscious or conscious) rather than something "one is born with" it still doesn't mean that people who make that "choice" are abnormal, unhealthy or unproductive socially (whatever "unproductive socially" is supposed to mean) nor does it mean they are in need of "help", much less should they seek it.

Further, even if your opinion that "gays are defective" somehow manages to be proven true by science one day, does it matter? Are "defective people" not entitled to the same rights as "perfect people" (like you, right)? Should alcoholics not be allowed to marry until they have sought help for their drinking problems? Should people afflicted with cancer not be allowed to marry because they are "defective"? Should "defective" people have the right to acquire a marriage license? How about a driver's license?

 

[Shad0hawK]

ive done alot os searching, and so far the consensus is homosexuality is NOT genetic.

this is a good site

linky

 

[happyhelper]

If liberals had their way- the US would look like California. High taxes, businesses leaving, unaffordable living, soaring spending on social programs, entitlements for illegal immigrants and lack of development of energy resources.

that's what the US looks like already, dipshit

 

[Genesys]

They have changed their stance on that due to more information becoming available (in other words - discoveries that have been made in a scientific or pseudo-scientific way that disproved common myths and misconceptions about homosexuality that were prevalent in the past (and still are among many here, apparently)). Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness or defect of character by any legitimate, well-established phsychological or psychiatric institution or group.

or, perhaps it might have been due to te fact that public opinion on homosexuality has changed, and they didnt want to have any form of funding cut, loss of public support, loss of creitibility, etc... And, am I to take it that you think [or the psychiatric community at large] discredit or think less of those that view homosexuality as a mental defect/disease?

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: happyhelper

If liberals had their way- the US would look like California. High taxes, businesses leaving, unaffordable living, soaring spending on social programs, entitlements for illegal immigrants and lack of development of energy resources.

that's what the US looks like already, dipshit

not as bad as Kalifornia, which i think was his point, or were you looking forward to calling someone a "dipshit" so you could feel better about yourself?

oh well, it was a good thread for a while...time for some call of duty.

goodnight

 

[fjord]

Googled Resarch on homosexuality

News on homosexuality

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: happyhelper

If liberals had their way- the US would look like California. High taxes, businesses leaving, unaffordable living, soaring spending on social programs, entitlements for illegal immigrants and lack of development of energy resources.

that's what the US looks like already, dipshit

business arent leaving, taxes arent high, i live in affordable housing, and if we can ever drill for oil in alaska, the last one will be solved too.

 

[happyhelper]

Originally posted by: Genesys

They have changed their stance on that due to more information becoming available (in other words - discoveries that have been made in a scientific or pseudo-scientific way that disproved common myths and misconceptions about homosexuality that were prevalent in the past (and still are among many here, apparently)). Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness or defect of character by any legitimate, well-established phsychological or psychiatric institution or group.

or, perhaps it might have been due to te fact that public opinion on homosexuality has changed, and they didnt want to have any form of funding cut, loss of public support, loss of creitibility, etc... And, am I to take it that you think [or the psychiatric community at large] discredit or think less of those that view homosexuality as a mental defect/disease?

That's absurd. Public opinion is still obviously quite "anti-homosexual." You might have been better off arguing that the head honchoes in the APA and all these other institutions were gay or bribed by gays in order to change the "mental illness" label on homosexuality and to help sway public opinion, but you have to be off your rocker to think they changed their stance to be more "in tune" with public opnion. In fact, the psychological groups working with gay rights groups have changed public opinion considerably by showing what scientific evidence there really is on the subject, dispelling 30,000 year old myths and stereotypes, just as men in the field of science aided in the rights movements for blacks and women and in ending slavery by dispelling the (now) absurd bullshit myths and stereotypes about how those various groups were inferior and not worthy of the same rights as (white) men.

Maybe try reading what they have to say before saying they are wrong? That would be the, ahem, open-minded thing to do.
http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/answers.html

Can therapy change sexual orientation?

No. Even though homosexual orientation is not a mental illness and there is no scientific reason to attempt conversion of lesbians or gays to heterosexual orientation, some individuals may seek to change their own sexual orientation or that of another individual (for example, parents seeking therapy for their child). Some therapists who undertake this kind of therapy report that they have changed their clients' sexual orientation (from homosexual to heterosexual) in treatment. Close scrutiny of their reports indicates several factors that cast doubt: many of the claims come from organizations with an ideological perspective on sexual orientation, rather than from mental health researchers; the treatments and their outcomes are poorly documented; and the length of time that clients are followed up after the treatment is too short.

In 1990 the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works and that it can do more harm than good. Changing one's sexual orientation is not simply a matter of changing one's sexual behavior. It would require altering one's emotional, romantic and sexual feelings and restructuring one's self-concept and social identity. Although some mental health providers do attempt sexual orientation conversion, others question the ethics of trying to alter through therapy a trait that is not a disorder and that is extremely important to an individual's identity.

Not all gays and lesbians who seek therapy want to change their sexual orientation. Gays and lesbians may seek counseling for any of the same reasons as anyone else. In addition, they may seek psychological help to "come out" or to deal with prejudice, discrimination and violence.

Why is it important for society to be better educated about homosexuality?

Educating all people about sexual orientation and homosexuality is likely to diminish anti-gay prejudice. Accurate information about homosexuality is especially important to young people struggling with their own sexual identity. Fears that access to such information will affect one's sexual orientation are not valid.