Can SCSI and ATAPI RAID co-exist in one machine?

[Marine]

I have (had) an Ultra 320 RAID hard disk array with Win XP Pro installed for about four months. Recently, I ran out of storage and as CompUSA was having a sale, I bought two 120 GB Western Dig EIDE HDs and configured them in a RAID 0 install. No problem with that, but when I rebooted, my OS was gone. I think that the EIDE install overwrote the MBR on my SCSI array and I'm dead in the water.

I could install a new OS on the EIDE array as it prompts me to do, however, I have lots of data on the SCSI disks that I hate to lose. So...questions in this order:
Can I recover my SCSI disk data?
Can I have both SCSI and EIDE/ATAPI RAID intalls in the same machine? They don't seem to like each other. If so, which should I install first. I only want one OS, preferably on the SCSI U320 disks, with the EIDE/ATAPI RAID array for fast storage. Help???

 

[cleverhandle]

I'm having trouble visualizing this situation... some details about your hardware, RAID controllers/software, and procedures would be helpful.

Originally posted by: Marine
...I bought two 120 GB Western Dig EIDE HDs and configured them in a RAID 0 install.

What do you mean by "a RAID 0 install"? Did you configure them through the OS, BIOS, controller, or what?

No problem with that, but when I rebooted, my OS was gone. I think that the EIDE install overwrote the MBR on my SCSI array and I'm dead in the water.

Though I don't totally follow you, this seems highly unlikely and certainly recoverable in any event. It's much more likely that your disk addressing changed, either as it appears to your BIOS or to your boot loader.

Can I recover my SCSI disk data?

Yes, if you give us more details.

Can I have both SCSI and EIDE/ATAPI RAID intalls in the same machine?

Yes, certainly.

They don't seem to like each other. If so, which should I install first. I only want one OS, preferably on the SCSI U320 disks, with the EIDE/ATAPI RAID array for fast storage. Help???

What you were doing appears to be mostly correct - keep the OS on the SCSI RAID, and configure the IDE RAID afterwards. You're just getting mixed up on booting issues, I think.

 

[Marine]

Thanks for the response. The machine is built on an ASUS P4T533 baseboard with 3.06 processor; 1 GB RAMBUS.
This info isn't really germane to the problem. The SCSI array is built on Adaptec 320 host adapter and IBM 10K disks. The EIDE array is Promise on the Mobo.

The issue is simply that when I added the EIDE array to a stable fast working machine, I no longer can access the OS which is written to the SCSI RAID. I have tried to recover with both a boot disk and also with the WinXP CD. Neither can locate a Windows install.

So, again any recommendations to recover my existing OS would be best. Acceptable would be how to configure the machine to recognize both disk arrays in which case I'll just start from scratch. Thanks!

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: Marine
This info isn't really germane to the problem.

Not sure if that's directed to adapter/disk info, or to the mobo/RAM info. But if it's the former, I'd say that it's extremely relevant. People lump true hardware controllers, Promise/Highpoint hybrids, and Windows dynamic disks under the "RAID" label. But each of those is quite different as far an OS is concerned, especially for booting.

The SCSI array is built on Adaptec 320 host adapter and IBM 10K disks. The EIDE array is Promise on the Mobo.

OK, now I'm with you. So the "install" of the IDE array was the creation of array inside the controller BIOS after the machine POST'ed, correct?

The issue is simply that when I added the EIDE array to a stable fast working machine, I no longer can access the OS which is written to the SCSI RAID.

A couple things could be happening, I think. First off, both the Promise and the Adaptec arrays will appear to be SCSI devices, which could be confusing your boot order. Most RAID-capable mobo BIOS'es have a toggle to choose between a "true" SCSI controller and a Promise/Highpoint controller in cases where both are installed and the machine is set to boot to SCSI (your situation). See if your BIOS has such a toggle and make sure it is set to SCSI. Second, since both arrays will be seen as SCSI devices, they may appear differently to the boot loader when both are installed. But I think that that should be OK, provided that you set the boot order correctly. What happens if you turn off the Promise controller? Will it boot correctly, then? Finally, I've heard of rare situations where the expansion ROM's between two disk controllers just don't play well together. That's pretty unlikely, though. If you see boot-time messages for both the Adaptec and Promise cards, you should be fine. If not, you may need a different IDE RAID controller, or more black magic than I can provide.

I have tried to recover with both a boot disk and also with the WinXP CD. Neither can locate a Windows install.

That's odd - you should see the Windows install unless you accidently hosed your partition table. But I can't see why that would happen. Are you certain you've loaded necessary drivers (with F6) just after the CD starts up? I doubt XP has drivers for a U320 RAID card built-in, though I may be mistaken there.

So, again any recommendations to recover my existing OS would be best. Acceptable would be how to configure the machine to recognize both disk arrays in which case I'll just start from scratch. Thanks!

Again, I think you were going in the right general direction, but obviously something went wrong. I would install the base OS to the SCSI array with the Promise controller turned off in the BIOS. Then switch on the RAID controller in the BIOS, reboot, and ensure drivers are properly loaded before actually attaching the IDE drives and initializing the array. If it gets that far, but can't boot after attaching drives, then it's almost certainly a device ordering/addressing problem that can be fixed one way or another.

edit: clarified the last bit

 

[Marine]

Thanks again, but this is not any help. Your last para is exactly what I did when I installed the new drives. Thanks anyway, but it can't be fixed "one way or another".

 

[cleverhandle]

You're awfully dismissive of people trying to help you. Have some patience and some trust. Did you check for the BIOS toggle I mentioned? Do you see both the Adaptec and Promise messages at bootup? Have you tried turning off the Promise array? When the machine doesn't boot, what exactly do get? Just a blank screen after the POST and card initialization, or some kind of message?

At worst, you might have to buy another IDE controller - either a RAID card or just a plain old controller to use with Dynamic Disks. But it's not at all clear to me that that's necessary yet.

 

[Fuzznuts]

Originally posted by: Marine
Thanks again, but this is not any help. Your last para is exactly what I did when I installed the new drives. Thanks anyway, but it can't be fixed "one way or another".

I agree that your attitude need slight adjustment, i also agree that you have your boot order borked up. if you have changed nothing then how on earth can your bootloader have changed?.

when you say neither can locate a windows install are you loading the scsi drivers for your cards by pressing f6 when the dos part of the install first starts.

and in answer to your orignal question can scsi and ide co exist yes they can with no problems what so ever if configured correctly. maybe you should have looked into that before lumping stuff into your system.

i believe "look before you leap" would fit here

edit:spelling

 

[NogginBoink]

Your OS is not gone.

You now have 2 boot controllers and the order in which the system enumerates them is important.

If you haven't already screwed with things, remove the IDE card and see if you can still boot to the SCSI drives.

Then, tell us what the EXACT symtpoms were (error messages, etc) so we can help you.

Your system is quite recoverable if you don't go and do something rash.