Can Science and Religion coexist?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
I think you're trailing a bit off course.

Before science could prove many things, the "why" was the explaination for things that couldn't be. As we advance in technology, many "why's" were discarded as, well, BS.

Really? Which why's were discarded as BS?

Bear in mind, things like Creationism are not "why's", they are "how's".

 

[sillymofo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo I think you're trailing a bit off course. Before science could prove many things, the "why" was the explaination for things that couldn't be. As we advance in technology, many "why's" were discarded as, well, BS.

Really? Which why's were discarded as BS? Bear in mind, things like Creationism are not "why's", they are "how's".

Oh... there are many, many many many why's (keep in mind, religion != Christianity, but all). The Gods are angy.... does that ring a bell?

 

[SpecialEd]

everyone who has claimed they can disprove the existence of God using the scientific method has been laughed at by the legitimate scientific community.

Likewise, religious people trying to disprove scientific ideas such as evolution is equally ridiculous IMO.

Its all about initial assumptions. You can assume God exists or doesn't exist and arrive at the same conclusions.

But to answer your question, yes they can.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
Oh... there are many, many many many why's (keep in mind, religion != Christianity, but all). The Gods are angy.... does that ring a bell?

I don't know, I've never been into polytheisms.
But then again, who says that things like Mad Cow Disease aren't a sign of the gods' anger? I'm only part joking here, strange as it sounds. Back to the how and why, scientists may have an understanding as to how such things happen but they still have no idea as to the why.
It's only because such thinking of blaming the gods is unproductive in solving our problems that we as humans (thankfully) decided to discard it. And it's only because science has been more productive that people have accepted it.

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: MacBaine
Scientology is the scientific religion, isn't it?..

That's what I thought. I have never been able to find what the hell that religon actually is. It's a cult that takes your money. Starts off psudeo-psychology sort of makes sense by the end it is full blow weird.

 

[royaldank]

Originally posted by: matt426malm

Originally posted by: MacBaine
Scientology is the scientific religion, isn't it?..

That's what I thought. I have never been able to find what the hell that religon actually is. It's a cult that takes your money. Starts off psudeo-psychology sort of makes sense by the end it is full blow weird.

That is how I view most religions.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: matt426malm

Originally posted by: MacBaine
Scientology is the scientific religion, isn't it?..

That's what I thought. I have never been able to find what the hell that religon actually is. It's a cult that takes your money. Starts off psudeo-psychology sort of makes sense by the end it is full blow weird.

According to the story, some 30 odd years ago, the famous science fiction authors Robert A. Heinlen and L. Ron Hubbard were sitting down having a few drinks and a heated philosophical discussion when Hubbard proclaimed that he could build a new religion based on pure bullsh!t that could attract a million followers, all of whom would know that the religion was based on bullsh!t. Heinlein said he couldn't do it and made a bet. Heinlein lost.

Scientology is not the scientific religion, it is the science fiction religion.

 

[sillymofo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: matt426malm

Originally posted by: MacBaine Scientology is the scientific religion, isn't it?..

That's what I thought. I have never been able to find what the hell that religon actually is. It's a cult that takes your money. Starts off psudeo-psychology sort of makes sense by the end it is full blow weird.

According to the story, some 30 odd years ago, the famous science fiction authors Robert A. Heinlen and L. Ron Hubbard were sitting down having a few drinks and a heated philosophical discussion when Hubbard proclaimed that he could build a new religion based on pure bullsh!t that could attract a million followers, all of whom would know that the religion was based on bullsh!t. Heinlein said he couldn't do it and made a bet. Heinlein lost. Scientology is not the scientific religion, it is the science fiction religion.

:camera:? or :video;?

So you mean to tell me that if you're shown the truth, you're still clinging to what you believe in? Or will you not attract to this truth?

 

[rubix]

religion can exisit with anything because it's made up and always changing to cover it's ass. everytime science finds something that completely shows how made up religion is people just say everyone before was interpreting it wrong and now it means this or that new thing. plus, there's new religions made up all the time and of course the morons who like to take an exisiting religion and then modify it themselves and claim they are above organized religous ways or whatever.

the real question is can morons and science coexist. i have my doubts.

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: rubix
religion can exisit with anything because it's made up and always changing to cover it's ass. everytime science finds something that completely shows how made up religion is people just say everyone before was interpreting it wrong and now it means this or that new thing. plus, there's new religions made up all the time and of course the morons who like to take an exisiting religion and then modify it themselves and claim they are above organized religous ways or whatever.

the real question is can morons and science coexist. i have my doubts.

poor soul

I think that science brought and can bring people closer to God. When i took astronomy and microbiology within a semester of each other, my mind was blown away...and as i was learning all the intracacies and systems of life, the miracle became more and more prevalent, and radomnimity kind lost its power. so much beauty, and life and passion...science allows us to get closer to our deity. We get to see all the details

IMHO

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
So you mean to tell me that if you're shown the truth, you're still clinging to what you believe in? Or will you not attract to this truth?

In my experience, most people live in denial and will happily stick to their lies if given the chance.

However, before you get excited, science cannot disprove religion. Only fools say that science proved that "God is dead"... because science has done no such thing and almost certainly never will.

There is one more very important thing about religion that virtually all "atheists" refuse to accept in their arguing over God and science. That is that most religions include a strict moral code, usually one that is very beneficial to societies as a whole, and provides much greater incentive to an individual to be a righteous person than any set of laws by any government ever could. IMO, the Bible would be a great book even if science somehow miraculously disproved God (which will never happen anyway), surely on the basis of its moral teachings alone. For anyone who has never read it, I strongly recommend the Gospels, or the first 4 chapters of the New Testament. Belief in God is unimportant, just read for the philosophical wisdom. Amazing.
There is a story in the Talmud of Judaism that a wealthy ambassador from a foreign land visited a respected rabbi sometime about 100 AD. The ambassador told that rabbi that he would convert to Judaism as long as the rabbi could teach him the Torah while the ambassador stood on one foot. The rabbi said, "That which is hateful to you, do not unto your fellow man, for this is the Torah and all else is commentary." The ambassador was converted.

btw, these are the "why's" I am talking about.

 

[rubix]

yeah "our deity." how funny. so how many deities do you recognize exactly? how much respect do you have for the egyptian god osiris? or every little lame greek god there was . what a sham. there are so many dumb little gods that are forgotten over time and yours is no different, it's just one of the popular ones right now.

so only you and the ones who believe in your god go to whatever made up afterlife it has? or do all people? how would you even know that you chose the right god when you don't even know the finer details of all the 1000s of religions and gods throughout history? you just picked whatever was right there in front of you in the time period you just happened to be born in. what a joke. do you even bother to think about such things? or do you prefer a nice happy thought served up with lies.

or perhaps you happen to think that every dumb little god or religion is correct despite the fact many completely conflict with each other. gotta love people trying to be all pc and try to make everything coexist somehow.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The most science can ever do is prove that God or Gods are not necessary for the existence and functioning of the universe. It's only possible to disprove specifc claims from, for example, people believing the Earth was created 50,000 years ago, science can never disprove the existence of higher being(s) that are not bound by the laws of this universe.

So science and religion can coexist from the scientifc viewpoint.

From the religious viewpoint it depends on the level of fundamentalism and intolerance, since someone who takes the bible as literal truth to the point of thinking "7 days" were in fact 24-hour days is forced to reject the existence of physics, astronomy, chemistry, and probably other disciplines. Others who are less extremist (like the Catholic church) will accept even natural selection and understand those "days" were likely billions of years.

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
So you mean to tell me that if you're shown the truth, you're still clinging to what you believe in? Or will you not attract to this truth?

In my experience, most people live in denial and will happily stick to their lies if given the chance.

However, before you get excited, science cannot disprove religion. Only fools say that science proved that "God is dead"... because science has done no such thing and almost certainly never will.

There is one more very important thing about religion that virtually all "atheists" refuse to accept in their arguing over God and science. That is that most religions include a strict moral code, usually one that is very beneficial to societies as a whole, and provides much greater incentive to an individual to be a righteous person than any set of laws by any government ever could. IMO, the Bible would be a great book even if science somehow miraculously disproved God (which will never happen anyway), surely on the basis of its moral teachings alone. For anyone who has never read it, I strongly recommend the Gospels, or the first 4 chapters of the New Testament. Belief in God is unimportant, just read for the philosophical wisdom. Amazing.
There is a story in the Talmud of Judaism that a wealthy ambassador from a foreign land visited a respected rabbi sometime about 100 AD. The ambassador told that rabbi that he would convert to Judaism as long as the rabbi could teach him the Torah while the ambassador stood on one foot. The rabbi said, "That which is hateful to you, do not unto your fellow man, for this is the Torah and all else is commentary." The ambassador was converted.

btw, these are the "why's" I am talking about.

nicely put, there is merit in having faith, being kind and giving, and respecting others. There are other texts that are beneficial as wel...the 4 noble truths and 8 fold path of buddhism are very similar...about living by a strict moral code that is beneficial...

I used to be an atheist and grew up in a Godless home, such despair, and unkindness, judgement and selfishness. i learned that moral codes of religion are all fundamentally beneficial in the treatment of yourself and others

JC

 

[sillymofo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo So you mean to tell me that if you're shown the truth, you're still clinging to what you believe in? Or will you not attract to this truth?

In my experience, most people live in denial and will happily stick to their lies if given the chance. However, before you get excited, science cannot disprove religion. Only fools say that science proved that "God is dead"... because science has done no such thing and almost certainly never will. There is one more very important thing about religion that virtually all "atheists" refuse to accept in their arguing over God and science. That is that most religions include a strict moral code, usually one that is very beneficial to societies as a whole, and provides much greater incentive to an individual to be a righteous person than any set of laws by any government ever could. IMO, the Bible would be a great book even if science somehow miraculously disproved God (which will never happen anyway), surely on the basis of its moral teachings alone. For anyone who has never read it, I strongly recommend the Gospels, or the first 4 chapters of the New Testament. Belief in God is unimportant, just read for the philosophical wisdom. Amazing. There is a story in the Talmud of Judaism that a wealthy ambassador from a foreign land visited a respected rabbi sometime about 100 AD. The ambassador told that rabbi that he would convert to Judaism as long as the rabbi could teach him the Torah while the ambassador stood on one foot. The rabbi said, "That which is hateful to you, do not unto your fellow man, for this is the Torah and all else is commentary." The ambassador was converted. btw, these are the "why's" I am talking about.

Granted that science can neither prove nor disprove that your God is dead or exist, because God is essentially a theoretical deity, which likes any other theory, can neither be right or wrong. Because you believe that certain deity exist doesn't mean that deity does exist. And that rabbi in your story would make a good salesman.

Even though I don't really believe in any God, but I do my part of upholding the morally concious duty of being a human being.

 

[nmcglennon]

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: rubix
religion can exisit with anything because it's made up and always changing to cover it's ass. everytime science finds something that completely shows how made up religion is people just say everyone before was interpreting it wrong and now it means this or that new thing. plus, there's new religions made up all the time and of course the morons who like to take an exisiting religion and then modify it themselves and claim they are above organized religous ways or whatever.

the real question is can morons and science coexist. i have my doubts.

poor soul

I think that science brought and can bring people closer to God. When i took astronomy and microbiology within a semester of each other, my mind was blown away...and as i was learning all the intracacies and systems of life, the miracle became more and more prevalent, and radomnimity kind lost its power. so much beauty, and life and passion...science allows us to get closer to our deity. We get to see all the details

IMHO

I couldn't agree more.

 

[stormbv]

They don't need to coexist, because organized religion doesn't need to exist. Your relationship with God should be of a more personal nature. I just organized my own religion. It's the most selective cult on Earth, and I'm it's only member.

 

[arcenite]

I asked god this question once... He just looked at me funny...

Bill