Question Can routers go bad over time?

[z1ggy]

Over the past week or so, my pings have spiked up a lot while gaming, I'm lagging like crazy and most of my videos are buffering. I can barely watch anything in 1080p without constant buffering during the video. I've reset my modem and router at least 10x and checked my connection speeds, which vary from 13-25mbps.

If the ISP says nothing looks unusual on their end, I'd suspect maybe my router is going bad? It's about 4-5 years old now and does get pretty hot to the touch while in use. Could it be anything else? I haven't changed anything with my games or hardware.

 

[mxnerd]

I don't have Netflix and don't know exactly how much bandwidth Netflix really uses while streaming Ultra HD (they probably do it dynamically) to your different devices. If they recommend 25Mbps for Ultra HD, that means in some cases it might just use as much.

You need to upgrade your plan or limit your wife's addiction of Ultra HD video while you are playing game. No way around it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Go into your Netflix account and set it to normal hd only, she won't even notice

Under Account > My Profile > Playback settings > set it to regular hd

you're welcome

 

[z1ggy]

Go into your Netflix account and set it to normal hd only, she won't even notice

Under Account > My Profile > Playback settings > set it to regular hd

you're welcome

haha I will but even yesterday when she was gone for a while, the ping I got while using the router's wifi was still very bad. It was lower ping than when she is using Netflix but I still lagged and the game was still not very playable.

It's like the router is choking my bandwidth... it's just less data available while she's using it as well.

 

[ch33zw1z]

haha I will but even yesterday when she was gone for a while, the ping I got while using the router's wifi was still very bad. It was lower ping than when she is using Netflix but I still lagged and the game was still not very playable.

It's like the router is choking my bandwidth... it's just less data available while she's using it as well.

Ok, I would not rely on WiFi in general. Wifi is fine for things that don't require low latency and highest possible speeds.

 

[z1ggy]

Ok, I would not rely on WiFi in general. Wifi is fine for things that don't require low latency and highest possible speeds.

Well... part of the issue is that my desk is moving pretty soon into a different room than the router and modem. This is b/c this bedroom is being used for the baby that's coming in July, so PC got a wifi card (bedroom has router).

The wifi adapter says it's rated for welllll over the speeds my internet is even running right now. Even when I use the router as a switch and hardwire into the PC, I still had this issue. I've basically tried all variables at this point, and the only time I didn't lag, is right into the PC hard wire from modem. All other scenarios = horrible lag.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well... part of the issue is that my desk is moving pretty soon into a different room than the router and modem. This is b/c this bedroom is being used for the baby that's coming in July, so PC got a wifi card (bedroom has router).

The wifi adapter says it's rated for welllll over the speeds my internet is even running right now. Even when I use the router as a switch and hardwire into the PC, I still had this issue. I've basically tried all variables at this point, and the only time I didn't lag, is right into the PC hard wire from modem. All other scenarios = horrible lag.

Right, so back to the router as the potential problem, and the modem potentially limiting speed upgrades in the future.

Baby you say? Leave the wifi adapter....games are done.

 

[z1ggy]

Right, so back to the router as the potential problem, and the modem potentially limiting speed upgrades in the future.

Baby you say? Leave the wifi adapter....games are done.

Haha, well.... With the lock down here for who knows how long I think it will get very limited but not totally done done. A lot of my gaming friends have kids and they still find an hour or two per week to play.

 

[mxnerd]

What should I do if internet speed is slow when the device is connected to the router’s wireless network | TP-Link

What should I do if internet speed is slow when the device is connected to the router’s wireless network

www.tp-link.com

use Nirsoft WifiInfoView to see which channel has least WiFi routers on it in your neighborhood and then config your router to use that channel.

Scans wireless networks in your area

Tool for Windows that scans wireless networks in your area and displays extensive information, including: SSID, MAC Address, PHY Type (802.11g or 802.11n), RSSI, Signal Quality, Frequency, Channel Number, and more...

www.nirsoft.net

 

[mxnerd]

Also run tracert command from your PC to game server IP address while no one else is using the internet.

 

[VirtualLarry]

when my wife isn't on Netflix it's still slow, but when she goes on it... my pings are going up over 100ms,

We have Optimum 25/5 I'm pretty sure

Honestly, if she's watching 4K streams (do you have a 4K TV or Roku?) off of Netflix, that's going to take basically ALL of your downstream bandwidth, more or less, at that internet WAN speed. I think that you need to bump up your plan, my friend.

I too, am surviving on 25/3, thanks to Comcast recently bumping up their cheapest internet plan, but I'm the only person living here, and I only watch an occasional YouTube or so, no constant streaming, so that's (barely) enough for me these days. (My mining and F@H rigs take a good chunk of BW too.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's like the router is choking my bandwidth...

This can happen if your node is congested (and with COVID-19 stay-at-home orders, and everyone on the internet, who's cable internet node ISN'T congested these days), and you don't have enough channels supported in your modem to "Spread the load around". (Find an uncongested channel that you're locked on to, to send you the data from the head-end.)

If you don't believe me that this is an issue, ask around on the Comcast, or if there's an Optimum forum, on dslreports.com . It's a real thing. You have an obsolete modem, too, that also needs replacement.

In lab conditions, sure, it will give you 172Mbit/sec down, but in the real world, on a real, congested, cable plant, you won't get squat. Get at least a 16x4, or a 24 or 32x8 modem. Or just go for a DOCSIS 3.1 modem, and be future-proofed for gigabit downstream.

and the only time I didn't lag, is right into the PC hard wire from modem.

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong about the modem. I've got a 16x8 or 24x8 TP-Link gateway, which is pure overkill for a 25/3 plan, but I took those comments I read about having more channels, making nodes "work better", by more evenly spreading the load around, seriously.

And I generally don't get slowdowns at all. Then again, my LAN is wired.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Yeah, Amazon is the way to go then.

My opinion is, no it's not. It could take a week or more to get the product even with prime. And the way they are treating their employees is another reason to avoid them. Meanwhile Best Buy is doing right by their employees through this crisis, and is offering curbside pick up. Buy the router online, drive there, use the curbside pick up, never leaving the vehicle, bring it home same day. #shoplocal

And 25/5 is questionable in 2020 for a couple that streams and games simultaneously. But I would use the Quality of Service feature to give yourself priority. If she starts complaining about PQ of the shows? Gee honey, I guess Netflix is throttling here now, like they were forced to do in Europe. <devilish grin>

 

[VirtualLarry]

But I would use the Quality of Service feature to give yourself priority.

That only works for congested upload. Won't do a dang thing for ingress. OP needs a bigger pipe.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

That only works for congested upload. Won't do a dang thing for ingress. OP needs a bigger pipe.

School me here: You are saying that if he sets up QoS priority for his gaming rig with a priority of let's say, 70 percent, that when they are both on and maxing out their connection, he will not get priority and hence a better experience than without it?

 

[VirtualLarry]

School me here: You are saying that if he sets up QoS priority for his gaming rig with a priority of let's say, 70 percent, that when they are both on and maxing out their connection, he will not get priority and hence a better experience than without it?

Yes. The dirty little secret of "QoS" settings in routers, is that, they really only work for upstream congestion. Implementing downstream QoS, would require your ISP router's help, as that is where it would be implemented, and most customers DON'T have any sort of access to their ISP's concentrators, etc.

Edit: For example, if you have a 100Mbit/sec symmetrical pipe to your ISP, and you are consuming 120Mbit/sec worth of incoming data, what is the ISP to do with that data? Either dump the additional 20Mbit/sec, and require re-transmits, or buffer, and increase latency that way. (They usually dump, btw. Buffer-bloat is often worst than re-transmits.)

If the ISP upstream router implemented QoS, then it could decide, for example, that your gaming packets coming in, should have higher priority than someone's (*buffered) Netflix stream data, or bulk torrent data. But without that feature at the ISP level, and coordinating it with your consumer router, it doesn't work. It can't. Your router can only deal with the data coming off of the downstream pipe, in the order it receives it from the ISP. If the ISP doesn't implement downstream QoS (and most don't), then you don't get it.

Edit: I suppose, one could implement some sort of prioritization of packets, AS LONG AS THE TOTAL BANDWIDTH STAYS WITHIN THE DOWNSTREAM LIMITS. But that's generally NOT the condition that most people try to use QoS for, they generally have a "stuffed pipe" problem. In which case, the only solution is QoS on the upstream ISP's end, or a bigger pipe.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Edit: I suppose, one could implement some sort of prioritization of packets, AS LONG AS THE TOTAL BANDWIDTH STAYS WITHIN THE DOWNSTREAM LIMITS. But that's generally NOT the condition that most people try to use QoS for, they generally have a "stuffed pipe" problem. In which case, the only solution is QoS on the upstream ISP's end, or a bigger pipe.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Haha, well.... With the lock down here for who knows how long I think it will get very limited but not totally done done. A lot of my gaming friends have kids and they still find an hour or two per week to play.

In gaming terms, 1-2 hours per week is done

 

[VirtualLarry]

Thanks for clarifying.

The thing is, too, with downstream - if your pipe is stuffed, you need QoS to mitigate that issue, or a bigger pipe, but it has to be done on the ISP end. If your pipe isn't stuffed full of data, then you hardly need the overhead of the QoS engine, which usually (Ubicom or Qualcomm or whomever's StreamEngine hardware notwithstanding) runs on the router's CPU, and while it may offer more "regular" latency, it also can limit your maximum bandwidth through the router, and is generally thus pointless.

IOW, if you have gigabit FIOS (Gig up/down), there's really no need for QoS to "shape" your traffic. If you enable it, on most routers, other than possibly the most recent crop of quad-core AX routers, you'll limit your bandwidth to nearly 300Mbit/sec doing packet-processing in software on the router's (dual-core, in the case of my AC68U-class router) CPU.

About the only way that I would actually "recommend" running QoS on your router, is if: 1) You have DSL, or certain cable plans, and limited (congested) upstream bandwidth, and that can interfere with getting the full download bandwidth, if certain packets like ACKs aren't prioritized in the up-stream, or 2) you run services or clients for something like SIP / VoIP, that need a bounded latency, so as not to negatively affect service, and don't need maximum bandwidth from your connection.

Edit: I should mention, that bandwidth of certain TCP streams can be somewhat "controlled" incoming, depending on how the TCP/IP stacks are written on both ends, and "playing with" the ACK rate. But this is not guaranteed to work in all cases. (Edit: And can increase latency.) Also, UDP cannot be easily rate-controlled at all. (Edit: Without upstream router help.) Most gaming, AFAIK, uses UDP.

 

[extide]

Here's a snap of my router page data
View attachment 19219

Those numbers are not great. The Downstream signal to noise ratio is on the low side, and also your upload channels are a bit hot. I would call your ISP -- if they came out and saw those values on an analyzer they would make some adjustments to improve it.

You are also only bonding 4 channels -- which isn't particularly great these days. Even if your particular connection is well within the bandwidth capability of the 4 channels it still helps to bond more because then you are essentially pulling from a larger pipe. You would need to upgrade to a newer cable modem though.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You are also only bonding 4 channels -- which isn't particularly great these days. Even if your particular connection is well within the bandwidth capability of the 4 channels it still helps to bond more because then you are essentially pulling from a larger pipe. You would need to upgrade to a newer cable modem though.

That's basically what I was suggesting. I don't quite have the way with words that you did, I guess.

 

[SamirD]

This is a pro tip. Never use the routers as switches.

I think a mesh network with a 8 or 16 port switch is the way to go.

I actually buy cheap routers used for the switch. An unmanaged switch is a switch, and the switch component in a router is the same as a standalone switch.

Mesh is a consumer marketing abomination to extract max money from consumers. A good ubiquiti setup will match or exceed the performance of consumer mesh.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I actually buy cheap routers used for the switch. An unmanaged switch is a switch, and the switch component in a router is the same as a standalone switch.

Mesh is a consumer marketing abomination to extract max money from consumers. A good ubiquiti setup will match or exceed the performance of consumer mesh.

There is a term known as load. It pertains to the amount of computational power needed by the processing unit inside cheap routers. The switch aspect adds to the load. If you have only one or two devices connected to the router. You probably will not notice a difference. The standalone switch reduces the load on the router. Most people do not use managed switches. The standalone 8 port switch is not only cheap but inexpensive much like the cheap router.

 

[mxnerd]

According to Wondernetwork's fiber network stats,

New York (OP's city) to Texas' Austin average ping time is already 41 ms while not downloading / streaming.

Ping time between New York and other cities - WonderNetwork

wondernetwork.com

Open command prompt and use "ping -t server_ip_address (or server_dns_name) to test 4 conditions. -t means ping continuously. ctrl+c to stop.

1. No one is downloading/streaming
2. Only you playing games
3. Only your wife watching Netflix
4. You playing game and your wife watching Netflix.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There is a term known as load. It pertains to the amount of computational power needed by the processing unit inside cheap routers. The switch aspect adds to the load. If you have only one or two devices connected to the router. You probably will not notice a difference. The standalone switch reduces the load on the router. Most people do not use managed switches. The standalone 8 port switch is not only cheap but inexpensive much like the cheap router.

The LAN switch-ports, if they are just going to another LAN switch-port, don't involve the router CPU, AFAIK, at all. Thus, no "load". There's no reason that you cannot use an old router as a switch, that I am aware of, other than you should disable DHCP on it, just to be safe.

 

[z1ggy]

Guys thanks very much for input. I just want to ask @VirtualLarry though: I didn't know my ISP can make my pipe bigger... thought they made pills for that now a days... lol.

According to Wondernetwork's fiber network stats,

New York (OP's city) to Texas' Austin average ping time is already 41 ms while not downloading / streaming.

Ping time between New York and other cities - WonderNetwork

wondernetwork.com

Open command prompt and use "ping -t server_ip_address (or server_dns_name) to test 4 condictions. -t means ping continuously. ctrl+c to stop.

1. No one is downloading/streaming
2. Only you playing games
3. Only your wife watching Netflix
4. You playing game and your wife watching Netflix.

So I just tested condition 3 and I'm ranging betyween like... 69 and.... 651ms, when it continuously pings the server IP that I usually game on in TX. Obviously, if I were to start playing, I would assume the min and max both go up.
Tomrrow when wife is working, I want to ping the server again but hardwired directly from the modem just to see what results are. I may start with just replacing the router because I was able to game on about a 50ms ping just fine the other day like I had said before.