Can memory controller problems kill RAM?

[openwheelformula1]

those "lapped edges" are normal. I"d seen that from way back, and I only buy retail CPUs. I see nothing wrong from what the original poster described. Monarch shouldn't get flamed. Go the the following link and look at the CPUs. The 3800+ clearly has "lapped" edges more prominent than the 3200+. They are both retail CPUs.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2112450889

 

[Absolute0]

Monarch is great, i have gotten a LOT of CPUs from them, all have come new, undamaged, etc, fedex shipping and tracking provided, always good prices. Honestly, every CPU i've gotten from them (five 146s, a 148, and 2 165s) all have been past 3 Ghz and I got all of them stable in the 2.9 to 3.2 Ghz region on water.

 

[Zebo]

You must be on thier prefered customer list.

1) ordered a Video card for my son ~ dec 2... sat "in warehouse" for two weeks so I called thinking my son would miss his x-mas present and they said they have no stock. Cancelled, ordered same card from ZZF, was here at the house next day.
2) ordered a videocard no shrink wrap, broken seal on ESD bag card was in, worked but still..sold card to freind.
3) Already mentioned 165 order.

PS all these orders were in last 4 months.. I've never used monarch before bacuse thier database and site always seemed sux to me..amatuerish. So I don't know if this is just a recent problem or I just got unlucky.

 

[furballi]

Just like the dozen resoldered joints on the back of my NEW OEM Abit AX8 board? They were so sloppy, they didn't even take the time to remove the soldering flux. Course Monarch said the board was supposed to be NEW from Abit. Yeah...crooks!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Shimmishim
would you be complaining if your chip overclocked well? would you be saying the same things about monarch if one or both of those chips did 3 ghz?

i think not.

But I did. The two "suspicious" chips I got... one of them passes Prime at 2.7GHz default voltage and I haven't had a chance to test it farther. The other one last night spontaneously rebooted at 2.24GHz. If they were used/lapped I would return BOTH of them.

Originally posted by: Absolute0
Accusing Monarch of selling you a used CPU is just low man... Not their fault the 144s you got don't clock well...

What does overclocking have to do with thinking I got used parts when I paid for new parts?

I have owned CPUs that didn't clock well. I just suck it up because overclocking is the luck of the draw. That's my opinion and I've mentioned it here at Anandtech forums many, many times over the years. However, regardless of how well or not something overclocks, if I purchased something that's supposed to be new and it's used then it's a whole different story. In my original thread I was having problems with the first Opteron... nowhere did I mention that I deserved, wanted or was even thinking of returning it. That never crossed my mind. Instead I was thinking of using it either in my HTPC or SFF gaming case where I would not even be able to run huge overclocks, thus no biggie if it can't.

Now, some are saying that my CPUs look lapped and some are saying that they don't. Besides quite a few Intel CPUs with IHS over the years and a number of A64 and socket 754 Semprons, these are the first two IHS that have looked this way. Is it any wonder that I think them lapped? I posted about that here along with the pictures even before I tested the CPUs.

So far, not counting my opinion...

5 - lapped
3 - not lapped

I'm still waiting to see if Monarch replies to my attempts at communication.

 

[Absolute0]

Dude, did you even read my post? You can call it a lapped IHS all you want, the fact of the matter is, it isn't lapped, IHSs are made by different machines in the factories, and not all of them look the same.

The edges on yours are slightly curved. That's not lapped! Lapping involves progressing through a series of sandpapers, going all the way to > 1000 grit. After the CPU first touches any sandpaper, there are huge gashes all over it, and after a lapping, the stepping has been wiped off.

Those CPUs are not lapped
You are overreacting
Read my previous post again
Quit bothering Monarch

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Absolute0
Dude, did you even read my post? You can call it a lapped IHS all you want, the fact of the matter is, it isn't lapped

Yes I read your post. Did you read mine? I clearly stated that I have never seen any IHS like this, and suspected them, so that is why I posted here. Lemme quote what I previously wrote: "Is it any wonder that I think them lapped?" Get it? I "think" they are lapped, that's why I post here with my pictorial evidence and ask you guys. So far, five forum members also "think" they are lapped and three forum members (your opinion included) "think" they are not lapped.

"After the CPU first touches any sandpaper, there are huge gashes all over it, and after a lapping, the stepping has been wiped off. "
That's a good point, however does lapping always start off with coarse sandpaper? What if someone started off with the finest sandpaper just to take the harsh edge off the IHS?

"Those CPUs are not lapped "
My purpose in asking was to ascertain whether or not they were. Thank you for your comments.

"You are overreacting"
Perhaps. However, would you not also react if you thought you were sold something other than what you paid for?

"Read my previous post again"
No need to. I understood it perfectly and indeed even saw the picture that you offered up as a lapped IHS. Yes, that one is very obvious.

"Quit bothering Monarch"
I've sent them a total of... one message. It was concise and explained my concerns. I did not cuss at them, nor did I make any unreasonable demands. I don't think my post here is of any bother to them because they don't have a presence here, unlike at HardForums.

Absolute0, you're getting too worked up. Your posts were helpful but... a bit virulent. Here's an example of a post that supports exactly what you said, but toned down a bit:

Originally posted by: openwheelformula1
those "lapped edges" are normal. I"d seen that from way back, and I only buy retail CPUs. I see nothing wrong from what the original poster described.

Thank you openwheelformula1 for your input.

 

[Absolute0]

Can't help but get worked up after i post enough screenshots to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly what openwheelformula1 said, and then you don't believe me.

Sorry for being virulent... i've done my part here, i just don't want Monarch's name getting schmeared, because there's a lot of users who view these threads, and i don't want them getting any wrong ideas, so i view it as my job to clear their name, because i've had nothing but great CPUs from Monarch @ Great prices...

 

[Shimmishim]

yes. i am with absolute0 on this one.

I've made 4 purchases so far from monarch. zero problems. shipping was delayed a day or two before but i don't blame them when they are selling opteron 146's for $150 bucks.

 

[furballi]

Just because you don't see a cockroach doesn't mean that the house is bug-free. I'm 100% sure that Monarch sold me USED GOOD labeled as OEM. Is this an isolated incident? Absolutely NOT! There are some users who have legitimate gripes about this vendors. The forum is designed to exchange ideas and information.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Absolute0
Can't help but get worked up after i post enough screenshots to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly what openwheelformula1 said, and then you don't believe me.

Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

Yes, I did not take what you said as the Gospel of Truth. However, I also did not say that I didn't believe you. In my first post in response to your first post, I called the chips "suspicious." I stated that my statements were my opinion (twice). I stated that "I think them lapped" and not "I know they are lapped." Nowhere did I say "I don't believe you" or "you are lying."

I do thank you for your take on this matter and your links to pics.

 

[Bull Dog]

If you CPU had been lapped then the writing would have been ground off. They look nice and new to me. Sure one looks different....so what?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Absolute0
Dude, did you even read my post? You can call it a lapped IHS all you want, the fact of the matter is, it isn't lapped

Yes I read your post. Did you read mine? I clearly stated that I have never seen any IHS like this, and suspected them, so that is why I posted here. Lemme quote what I previously wrote: "Is it any wonder that I think them lapped?" Get it? I "think" they are lapped, that's why I post here with my pictorial evidence and ask you guys. So far, five forum members also "think" they are lapped and three forum members (your opinion included) "think" they are not lapped.

"After the CPU first touches any sandpaper, there are huge gashes all over it, and after a lapping, the stepping has been wiped off. "
That's a good point, however does lapping always start off with coarse sandpaper? What if someone started off with the finest sandpaper just to take the harsh edge off the IHS?

"Those CPUs are not lapped "
My purpose in asking was to ascertain whether or not they were. Thank you for your comments.

"You are overreacting"
Perhaps. However, would you not also react if you thought you were sold something other than what you paid for?

"Read my previous post again"
No need to. I understood it perfectly and indeed even saw the picture that you offered up as a lapped IHS. Yes, that one is very obvious.

"Quit bothering Monarch"
I've sent them a total of... one message. It was concise and explained my concerns. I did not cuss at them, nor did I make any unreasonable demands. I don't think my post here is of any bother to them because they don't have a presence here, unlike at HardForums.

Absolute0, you're getting too worked up. Your posts were helpful but... a bit virulent. Here's an example of a post that supports exactly what you said, but toned down a bit:

Originally posted by: openwheelformula1
those "lapped edges" are normal. I"d seen that from way back, and I only buy retail CPUs. I see nothing wrong from what the original poster described.

Thank you openwheelformula1 for your input.

On the other hand I have seen the "concave" IHS where the person who was lapping the IHS was merely doing the edges so the HS would sit more flush...They are trying to level out the surface. Not all lapping is done to smooth cpu out. most IHS are lapped well enough in those respects and the thermal paste we use effectively fills those microscopic cavaties. I have seen many cases where the heatsink clearly does not sit evenly on the IHS...In almost NO case have I ever seen a convexed shaped one...So my fix on any of those would be to knock down the edges...like what is shown....

This very well could be a LAPPed cpu....ONly problem is, it may not be as well...factories may do this on their own..I would need a factory representative to verify that...

So....Is the evidence refutable??? NO!!! Is aboslute0 a naive fool??? Yes!!!! Anyone who can so blanketly say it isn't, obviously doesn't know much about it...

 

[Duvie]

By the way for the record I have bought stuff from the big 3 retailers we all use here and had a sinking feeling I was getting a used, preopened, returned product, etc....Monarch is oneof them and newegg is another....

I trust none of them...

I buy retail chips for the most part in sealed cases...harder to dupe...

Motherboards are the ones I have had the sketchiest luck with...I had one with ziploc bags holding the cables and then ordered a similar board later and they used shrink fit bags. I have had what clearly looks like the static bag was opened and tape was repositioned....I have had bent metal plates for back of the case...even had a stain on a manual page...

I had a video card I knew was open and I complained and newegg took it back...

I think most of them do it...I was told by someone that most all returns where buyer says its defective is actually a problem by the user (competence, compatability, etc), they were just returning it cause it wouldn't oc far enough, or they changed their mind cause a better part came out....They do a quick test and try to sell it at same price...

 

[Absolute0]

for the last time, it's not lapped. Calling me a naive fool is low man, i know what i'm talking about, and when you come to terms with the truth you'll regret doubting me.

And when you stop accusing people and think about it for a second, even it it were lapped (which isn't the case i assure you), what does that mean? Better contact? It's definitely not used.

If a CPU has been used, look at it closely, it will have a grease spot on the IHS where the thermal paste was first applied. How do i know this? I've gone through more CPUs in the last 3 months than most people have in their lives. Naive fool? Your post count doesn't make you right.

OP:
Thank you for changing the title, i can understand your suspicion, but i am only asking that you trust me for this case. The source of my frustration is merely the fact that i have had experience with many CPUs and IHSs and know what i have said to be true.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Absolute0
for the last time, it's not lapped. Calling me a naive fool is low man, i know what i'm talking about, and when you come to terms with the truth you'll regret doubting me.

And when you stop accusing people and think about it for a second, even it it were lapped (which isn't the case i assure you), what does that mean? Better contact? It's definitely not used.

If a CPU has been used, look at it closely, it will have a grease spot on the IHS where the thermal paste was first applied. How do i know this? I've gone through more CPUs in the last 3 months than most people have in their lives. Naive fool? Your post count doesn't make you right.

OP:
Thank you for changing the title, i can understand your suspicion, but i am only asking that you trust me for this case. The source of my frustration is merely the fact that i have had experience with many CPUs and IHSs and know what i have said to be true.

hey dip wad!!! I at least have an open enough mind to say it could be either or....AND...It could be...I have lapped one just that way...P4 northwood that had a unlevel top of an IHS....

Dont threaten me pee-on!!!

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Absolute0
for the last time, it's not lapped. Calling me a naive fool is low man, i know what i'm talking about, and when you come to terms with the truth you'll regret doubting me.

And when you stop accusing people and think about it for a second, even it it were lapped (which isn't the case i assure you), what does that mean? Better contact? It's definitely not used.

If a CPU has been used, look at it closely, it will have a grease spot on the IHS where the thermal paste was first applied. How do i know this? I've gone through more CPUs in the last 3 months than most people have in their lives. Naive fool? Your post count doesn't make you right.

OP:
Thank you for changing the title, i can understand your suspicion, but i am only asking that you trust me for this case. The source of my frustration is merely the fact that i have had experience with many CPUs and IHSs and know what i have said to be true.

1) Dont threaten me...

2) No one is complaining that the chip is not working or showing any benefits from whatever may have happened...whether the surface was lapped by the manufacturer or another user...

3) If you are a fool you leave a mark...I never use the tape that comes with retail HSF and those usually are harder to clean up...I can clean up my Artic silver so you wouldn't ever know it was on there....Not much of an argument...


Again I am not saying it is a used product...I am saying it could be and there is no definitive proof one way or another...

SO GET OVER IT!!!

 

[Absolute0]

ok ok, i'm not trying to become mortal enemies with anyone. So there is a possibility that the CPUs from Monarch are used... so? There's no real evidence. The only evidence is that the sides of the IHS are curved, and i have already provided indisputable evidence that MANY IHSs come like that, it's just the way some are made, therefore there is 0 evidence and it is a waste of time to entertain this extremely remote possibility.

and don't interpret my post as a threat, i was saying that you would feel bad (ie regret it) when (a few pages later) this thread comes to the conclusion that i presented in my post yesterday.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Absolute0
ok ok, i'm not trying to become mortal enemies with anyone. So there is a possibility that the CPUs from Monarch are used... so? There's no real evidence. The only evidence is that the sides of the IHS are curved, and i have already provided indisputable evidence that MANY IHSs come like that, it's just the way some are made, therefore there is 0 evidence and it is a waste of time to entertain this extremely remote possibility.

and don't interpret my post as a threat, i was saying that you would feel bad (ie regret it) when (a few pages later) this thread comes to the conclusion that i presented in my post yesterday.

Enough said...

 

[zenzog]

I think the first question that you should ask yourself is 'Who the hell would lap their CPU without at least trying to know what they're doing?' and then 'Who would, for whatever reason, decide to *lap* the corners of the IHS?' Do the corners make any contact with the heatsink? Does this in any way assist heat transfer?

Once you've come to the conclusion that 'No, this can't possibly be a lame attempt at lapping,' that brings you to a more serious question, 'Why am I concerned about a cosmetic characteristic that has very little if any effect on the overall performance of the cpu?'

Monarch may sell used cpu's, but your observation is hardly evidence of it.

 

[openwheelformula1]

this whole thread is just a waste of time imo. There is no evidence either way. Just people complaining about a etailer with great prices. Simply put, you guys buy too many CPUs. Give me your money instead.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: zenzog
I think the first question that you should ask yourself is 'Who the hell would lap their CPU without at least trying to know what they're doing?' and then 'Who would, for whatever reason, decide to *lap* the corners of the IHS?' Do the corners make any contact with the heatsink? Does this in any way assist heat transfer?

Once you've come to the conclusion that 'No, this can't possibly be a lame attempt at lapping,' that brings you to a more serious question, 'Why am I concerned about a cosmetic characteristic that has very little if any effect on the overall performance of the cpu?'

Monarch may sell used cpu's, but your observation is hardly evidence of it.

Obviously you are not paying attention...I have had northwood cpus that were so concaved the heatsink was only resting on a few corners and the gap in the center you could pull out a strip of paper...So I kocked down 2 of the corners and a spot on one of the edges and it sat more flush on the real key spot the center of the IHS!!! So it can happen...



I agree with absolute0 this coule be just a factory job...I dont know for sure...I can just attest I have seen where ppl have done this or the need to just knock the corners down...

Like I said I find little advanatge in resurfacing the iHS unless it is about a level pad...

Without a doubt, Monarch in the past has sold a used product as new...I gaurantee it...I also gaurantee many of them have done it...Did they do it here??? I dont know for sure...Did they do it for one of my mobos?? I think so, but have no proof....


I think the OPs title is more in line with the actual proof he has...

 

[Zebo]

The IHS was lapped. Just because it was'nt lapped down to the core does'nt mean it was'nt lapped. IHS do not look like that. A64's are completly matte finish with sharp factory edges when new. I don't care how many CPU you claim you have Absolute Zero, I think you are FOS primarly because you claim you can not remove grease from IHS which can be done trivially without a trace with acetone or ethanol. Posts some pics of these dozen processors you claim to have, lets see if your edges have been lapped. Maybe you suffer a case of "I don't wanna admit I got a used CPU since I will have monarchs baby syndrome?"

All I buy are retail box and I've never seen this. I never seen this at any reviews site of thier CPUs PICS. I never seen this for many freinds CPU's we build together.

 

[Zebo]

And Zap - Just because it's used does'nt nessesary mean I'd return it. i kept a video card monarch sent me used because it was such an excellent clocker. Unlocked all pipes to x850xt for a $145 card a few months ago.. Sold it in forums for profit. Good CPU/GPU's - even if used - command a premium.

 

[Absolute0]

Now Skeeter, we don't want no trouble around here...

I've said it a thousand times, there are two kinds of IHSs from the factory. You dont even need to own 20 CPUs like me to admit it. Let me show you some screenshots

So you are saying that all of these are used
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/absolute035/Opty%20Dual/f3fa5f3c.jpg
Save for the one in the upper left? And little mischevious Gnomes slipped into Monarch's warehouse, and sanded all the edges down on the other ones, and craftily repackaged them...

This CPU, look at the upper left corner, you think they sanded that of course
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/absolute035/Opty%20Dual/c524d581.jpg

Another new 165 from Monarch
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/absolute035/Opty%20Dual/90385491.jpg
The Gnomes strike again!

My brand new 3000+ Venice still sealed in teh box, look at the bottom right corner
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/absolute035/Computer/30002.jpg
These Gnomes have been striking since the dawn of Venice processors, and they use magic to repair the AMD stickers on the retail boxes!

Another retail box CPU, top edge looks sanded?
http://www.importjdm.com/upmw1.JPG

I could find these all day long, but it's a waste of my time, just like it's a waste of my time to talk logic into you guys when you'd sooner believe, that people get CPUs, lap the edges down, and RMA them (though they work fine) to Monarch, who resells them to you (looking spotless), and that you should then have reason to complain, rather than accept the simple fact that SOMETIMES the IHSs from AMD are a little more curved than other times.


Here are some more from Google. Now let me ask again, what is more likely?
That AMD makes some CPUs with curved IHSs, or that there are thousands of people that grind the edges off their CPU, return it in good condition, and the company sells it as new?
Look over some pics as you ponder this
http://www.composter.kiev.ua/images/reviews/a64vsp4ee/a64fx_chip.jpg
http://www.chilehardware.cl/usuarios/juanflaiter/sacando.JPG
http://hardvision.ru/articles/editorial...2004_2005_analize/amdathlon64naked.jpg
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/athlon939/64/64%20001.jpg
^^ That's a very good one, perfect picture...
http://www.hardwareoc.at/xpspacer/Athlon%2064%20X2%204800+-008.jpg
^^also pretty good shot
http://prohardver.hu/html/proci/athlon64_x2/picz/4800.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/zh/0/0b/Athlon-64-Lenara-CG.jpg
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/athlon64-3000/a64-top.jpg



In conclusion, the edges are not lapped. As it happens, some come from AMD with slightly shaved edges, some have very sharp edges. In the end, all AMD 64s are fun and happy