Can Islam get along with others?

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
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I've heard that Islam is supposed to be a beautiful religion that teaches tolerance of other religions. But I've also noticed that in almost every part of the world, countries with large concentration of Muslims are experiencing problems with radical extremists Muslims wanting to succeed from the rest of the country.

For example in Asia, we have China and the Philipines. Muslims rebels are a major problem in the Philipines. They terrorize civilians and routinely hold hostages (I think they beheaded an American recently). I read in the Washington Post that China has a province that has a large percentage of Muslims that is growing more restless. They too are concerned with terrorist attacks.

In Russia, they have problems with radical separatists Muslims in Chetna(sp?) who recently have bombed apartment buildings in Russia costing many lives. And, of course, we had Yugoslavia where the root of the problem was that the radical Muslims wanted to separate from the rest of Yugoslavia. In that situation, many innocent Muslims were the victims of "ethnic cleansing" as the former government of Yugoslavia tried to eliminate the Muslim radicals once and for all.

In this article it tries to explain Bin Ladin's motives:

Bin Ladin's Motives

Basically, it gives me an impression that Islam is incompatible with other cultures. Their goal is to create a perfect Islamic state -- free from the "corrupt influences of Western culture". They fear our culture because it is too appealing. Most young people, when exposed to our culture and lifestyle, like it. They like our music, movies, clothing, etc. The Islamic Fundamentalists are scared of this. Since our culture is so appealing, they have to isolate themselves from us -- in other words, separate from us. That's why all these countries with large amounts of Muslims are having problems. The Muslims want to separate and form their own worlds -- because they can't and don't want to live with us.

 

RanDum72

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2001
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The problem with Islamic Fundamentalism is that they want to establish an Islamic state with Islamic law and this runs counter to democratic principles. Islam as a religion is not a problem, only the extremists within it.

You also forgot to mention East Timor. When this predominantly Christian island in Muslim Indonesia tried for autonomy (later independence), goons started hacking every non-Muslim inhabitant.
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
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Of course Islam can get along with others! The problem is the muslim extremists, but they are no different from christian extremists, jewish extremists, hindu extremists...

All kinds of religious extremism is BAD! Unfortunately all religions has it's share of extremeists.
 

Psychoholic

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
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It would seem that Islam has an unusally high number of people who take it to the extreme. However remember that is not represenative of the religon itself. If Catholics started acting in the same manner would that mean that Catholics can't get along with others???

The problem is the extremists, not the religon itself.
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
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<< The problem is the extremists, not the religon itself. >>



The extremists warp the wording of the Koran to help brainwash their 'soldiers', much like many cults warp the Bible to manipulate a group of people. These extremists are not Muslims, they are a mockery of what religion should be.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
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If you really want the answer to your question try these books.

POLITICAL ISLAM -ESPOSITO
ISLAMIC THREAT (3E 99) -ESPOSITO
ISLAM & DEMOCRACY -ESPOSITO


Or check this out

Link
 

kyutip

Golden Member
Jul 24, 2000
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I'm not siding with any religion as I don't have religion.

but I'd say Islam can not get along with others.
it does not have to be extremist.
I think sometimes ago in Indonesia churches are burned and people of other religions are being abused for practicing their religion.
You rarely heard other religion doing the same thing to Islam.
 

sgopal2

Senior member
Mar 11, 2001
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Islam is NOT a religion that preaches tolerance and acceptance of other faiths.

It is written in the Koran that people who are non-believers "Kuffars" should be persecuted and shown the path to Islam. There are many incendiary passages in the Koran that fundamentalist muslims take literally. Where is it written in the Christian Bible, the Jewish Torah or the Hindu Bhagavad Gita that one should forcibly convert others to your own religion??

The difference with Islam is that fundamentalism and religious extremism is tolerated, even rewarded. Families of suicide bombers are revered and treated with great honor in these countries. The very basis of Islamic religion is that there is only one god (Allah) and all others who don't believe in Allah should be dealt with VERY harshly. Muslims tout around the globe that their religion is one that promotes harmony and love of other cultures-- but ONLY if those people are muslim. Muslims in general are VERY intolerant of non-muslims.

Muslims can't get along with 'non-believers'. This has been proven over and over again throughout history:

  • The Crusades during the early 11th century
    Serbia & Bosnia
    Afghanistan & Russia
    The occupation of Indian Kashmir by muslim rebels
    Palestine/Israel
Everywhere around the world where there are muslims, there are problems.

I have very many non-extremist muslim friends but cannot understand how a religion that promotes love and harmony can also be tolerant of religious extremists. There are religious extremists within every religion but only the ISLAMIC extremists take their religious beliefs to another level.

May the souls of those who performed this dastardly act burn forever in hell.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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"Everywhere around the world where there are muslims, there are problems."

We have a large population of Muslims in the US, and outside of foreign terrorists we don't have problems. Even with Farrakahn's hateful preaching we still don't deal with the kind of violence, religious violence at least, that others do.

The Nazi part was composed largely of "Cathloics". For US specific groups, the KKK is made up of mainly "Protestants". There are whackos in every religion and whacko atheists. The MAJORITY of Muslims are good people, as is the case with every religion and even atheists.
 

Aelus

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2000
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<< Muslims can't get along with 'non-believers'. This has been proven over and over again throughout history:

  • The Crusades during the early 11th century
    Serbia & Bosnia
    Afghanistan & Russia
    The occupation of Indian Kashmir by muslim rebels
    Palestine/Israel
Everywhere around the world where there are muslims, there are problems.
>>



The israeli conflict isn't between islam/judaism, it's inbetween israelis and palestines. religion is just an excuse.

serbians are orthodox catholics, who slaughtered countless muslims in bosnia.
Crusades were by fanatic christians, who wanted to go slaughter the filthy muslims.
atheist russia invaded the peaceful muslims in afghanistan.
oh, and you forgot to mention northern island, where people have been blowing up innocents in the last few centuries, oops, there are no muslims there, only peaceloving catholics.

religion doesn't lead to terrorism, anger does.

Aelus


 

Aelus

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2000
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Benskywalker, while most of the soldiers in the army were christian, and the civilians were too. The true nazis, the SS, weren't, they invented a special religian around old germanic elements. And used that religion to justify their actions.

Aelus
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
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<<
Muslims can't get along with 'non-believers'. This has been proven over and over again throughout history:

The Crusades during the early 11th century
>>



Caused by europeans. What's your point?



<< Serbia & Bosnia >>



Nationalistic serbians butchered them while trying to create "greater Serbia", what were they supposed to do?



<< Afghanistan & Russia >>



Russia invaded their country, they fought back, what's the problem?



<< The occupation of Indian Kashmir by muslim rebels >>



Kashmir is a disputed area, you could also say "Occupation of Kashmir by Indian troops"



<< Palestine/Israel >>



Israel is to blame just as much as Palestinians are, check your history
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Islam preaches tolerance and love, much the same as many other religions. And like any other religion (as people have said already) there are those who take it too far and misinterpret Quran as a way to subjugate people. The Taliban, for example, consists of relatively few people WRT the total Afghan populace. However, the populace is both devout in their Islamic faiths and scared to death of being beaten or worse by Virtue/Vice cops. Think of it as a religious dictatorship. A few people can keep an entire population in check if they can break their spirits.

Another key point has been the mistranslation of the word "Jihad" these days to be synonymous with "Terrorism". It's been a good 4 years since my last class on this matter, but there are many words in Arabic that don't have any direct analog in English. My teacher 4 years ago, a Persian national and a Muslim said that of messing around with his knowledge of French, English and Arabic, he decided that the best English translation of Jihad is "Struggle." His contention was that while extremists use Jihad as an excuse for terrorism, to the average Muslim, "Jihad" refers to life's struggles to hold onto faith and to try to walk in the footsteps of god and the Prophet (Allah and Muhammad) and to uphold all the pillars of Islam.
He pointed out that this struggle against temptation and abandoning your faith is pretty similar to the one taught in Judaism, Christianity and other major religions.

Indeed, the history of Islam and the history of western religion share the same roots. The same Abraham mentioned in the book of Genesis (I think it's Genesis) is widely held to be the self-same man as Ibrahim who comes up in Islamic/Eastern histories. Islam also does not dispute the existence and exploits of Jesus. What it does not believe is that Jesus was the incarnation of God, but was one of God's prophets.

Other misconceptions of Islam is that it also embraces violence against women and subjugation of women--it does not. The Prophet's own wife, in fact, was a prominent, rich and powerful businesswoman in Medina, I believe it was. Wearing of veils and burqa by women is defined as something that can be done as a sign of respect, but not an offense punishable by Shariyah, and many countries with Islamic governments don't do that to their populations. Likewise, the practice of female genital mutilation (female circumcision) in many areas of Subsaharan Africa is not and was never endorsed by Islam. The practice probably predates the arrival of Islam in those regions, but no matter when it began, it's really just a tradition that has carried for centuries, encouraged by a society that just happens to be Islamic.

Check out the books above...I have read some of Esposito's texts, myself. Also check out a book called "Women in Islam." I don't recall the author. My apologies.


 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,584
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<< I read in the Washington Post that China has a province that has a large percentage of Muslims that is growing more restless. They too are concerned with terrorist attacks. >>

I've been there. It's Xinjiang, the desert country highlighted in the movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. The people have Turkish-like features, with some having Chinese-ish features as well. The religion is Muslim, and the language is both Chinese and their own form of Persian as I understand it. I found it kind of interesting to be in a place where most of the people were Caucasian, but which also could speak Mandarin to me.

I totally disagree with their methods, but I can understand their feelings of helplessness causing them to resort to it. Some Chinese there are quite racist, and rule with an iron fist. I decided to forego the tour group and went around myself in a taxi. We passed by a shopping mall which had been teargassed because some local was screaming and armed with a knife, and I snapped photos of Chinese soldiers armed with machine guns. In some ways it's worse there than in Tibet, yet since Tibet is more fashionable to the Hollywood types and the like, they have absolutely no press coverage.



<< Islam is NOT a religion that preaches tolerance and acceptance of other faiths. >>

Well, I have not read the Koran, but I have searched parts of it and spoken with devout Muslims. The ones I met are taught that if one from another religion is not harming them, then they should not harm them. Funnily enough my searches of the Koran state the exact the same thing, at least in some parts. By the way, the Bible is a holy book in Islam. Unfortunately, there are some sects of Islam which do preach hatred. These are where the problem lie, but please do not put all of Islam in the same light.

BTW, in case you're wondering, I am not Muslim.
 

teddymines

Senior member
Jul 6, 2001
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I, for one, would not have a problem with fundies isolating themselves from the rest of the world. I'm sure we can find a location, perhaps central Asia, that will accomodate them.

What could they gain by wiping out others? Do the fundy leaders fear strict rules are not enough for their sheep, and they need to eliminate the temptation?

And the palestinians shooting their guns in the air celebrating our crisis: they should have been firing horizontally, not vertically.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81


<< It would seem that Islam has an unusally high number of people who take it to the extreme. However remember that is not represenative of the religon itself. If Catholics started acting in the same manner would that mean that Catholics can't get along with others???

The problem is the extremists, not the religon itself.
>>


What do you call the IRA? They are a bunch of political/religious extremists.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
I just read that article. the final paragraph is scary.

<< But Bin Laden and his followers are alarming because they don't want anything from us. They don't want our sympathy. They want no material thing we can offer them. They don't want to participate in the community of nations. (They don't really believe in the nation-state.) They are motivated by religion, not politics. They answer to no one but their god, so they certainly won't answer to us. >>



<<shudder>>

This is why it is, as Bush calls it, a new kind of war.
 

Optimus

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2000
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The extreemists under any guise - any religion, aptriotism, love, etc - are the ones who cannot live with others. They do not represent peaceful people who believe, peaceful people who love thier country, or peaceful people who love others.



<< The Nazi part was composed largely of "Cathloics". >>


No, not at all - quite the opposite. Catholics and homosexuals were the other 2 groups the Nazis loved to send to death camps. It was VERY dangerous to be Catholic under Nazi occupation.