Can I upgrade the CPU and vid card on this old rig to play HL2?

[Quick1]

A budget gaming rig upgrade is what I?m looking to do, I guess. But I?d like to be able to play HL2 with more than just the ?Minimum Settings?. I was considering upgrading my P4 1.8 400Mhz Northwood to a used P4 2.8 533Mhz Northwood. Oh?and by the way, my 1.8 is not stable at 2.4, I?ve already tried it. Also considering getting a new Geforce 6800 128MB 256-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card. I think this card will run in my old 2x/4x m/b. I emailed Gigabyte asking the same question, no response yet. Could find some used memory and go to 1Gb of ram also. Would this work, or am I just pissin? in the wind?

Old gaming rig
P4 1.8 400/FSB 478 N-wood
GigaByte GA-8IEXP vers 2.0
512 ram
GeForce Ti-4400
WD 80Gb/8mb 7200
SB Live
450w p/s 24pin
Win98SE

 

[dguy6789]

From the technical profile of your motherboard, it looks like it does support 533Mhz FSB cpus as well as PC2100 memory.

My recommendation would be to purchase a Pentium 4 3.06Ghz w/HT for your cpu. This would not only give you a dramatic increase in processing power, but it would also give you HT, which is basically the only real reason to own an Intel cpu at this point in time. A quick look on pricewatch shows this cpu running for under $220.

I would also upgrade your memory. Purchase another 512 stick or two of ddr. This would cost around $35(get the one from Rosewill, they are the trusted cheap memory company) on newegg for a stick of PC3200(which I reccomend should you consider an Athlon 64 or even higher model P4 in the future)

Next, look for either a used 9800 Pro or a 6600GT with the latter being the preferable option. Both of them would allow you to play Half Life 2 at 1280X960 maximum settings with 4xAA and 16Xaf on the ati, not sure on the maximum af for the 6600GT. Newegg has 6600GTs for as low as $145(Do not get the lower priced 6600GTs as they have slower clocked memory and that could reduce performance). You can buy a 9800 Pro from newegg for $126 brand new. I would honestly say that the price difference between the two cards is quite relative to the difference in their respective performance. Purchase whichever you can afford.

If you are budget limited, you want to get the video card first, memory second, then cpu.

 

[Quick1]

dguy6789: Good info, thanks! Yes this m/b will do 400 & 533/FSB speeds.

I thought you had to be running WinXP to go with the H/T option?

 

[dexvx]

You must run either Win2K or WinXP for SMT/Dual Procs. Its rather rare seeing a Windows98 machine these days, though.

I'd just get any 533FSB chip, from 2.4 - 3.06, depending on how cheap you can get it. Best to buy second hand from eBay or the AT FS/T forums. Videocard wise, all 8X cards should be backwards compatible with 4X slots, but they will not work on 2X slots (they are 1.5V).

 

[Steve]

Yes, you will need Windows 2000 or XP to take advantage of HT as Windows 98 doesn't support dual CPUs, real or virtual. May want to look up that board's BIOS update history in case HT wasn't added until a newer BIOS release.

 

[Some1ne]

It would probably work for what you want (playing HL2), but it's not really cost effective in the long run.

 

[Quick1]

Thanks guys! Yeah' the 3.06 is not going to happen($). But I could easily pick up a used 2.8 or 2.66 533/FSB for less than $100.

Some1ne: Agreed! It problably makes more sense (dollar-wise) to chuck the m/b, RAM, CPU and vid card and start from scratch I guess. But I doubt that's what I'll do.

If I can get one upgrade out of this m/b, I'll be happy.

***Should I get the GeForce 6800 or the 6600GT?*** I thought the 6800 was about as fast and runs much cooler with a smaller GPU.

I was looking at this 6800, I think it will run in my m/b.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130202

Or should I go with this 6600GT?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130220

 

[Sniper82]

Was you buying another 512mb stick even with the 6800? If not I would recommend the CPU,another 512 stick and the 6600GT. Or if you can afford it CPU,memory and the 6800.

Either way if you want to play HL2 at 1024x768 or higher at max settings your gonna need 1gb of memory if you want little to no slowdown. Get the CPU and memory then decide whether you can afford the 6800 or 6600GT.

 

[Quick1]

I've been out of hardware for years and I didn't realize you could pick up another DDR 512mb stick for only $40. I'm going with the cpu, memory and vid card for sure! I just may not be able to buy all three at once. I've heard you've gotta have a gig of RAM to play HL2. Probably a used P4 2.53/533, 2.66/533 or 2.8/533, depending on which one I can get the best deal on.

Now....somebody give me some details about the difference between the 6600GT and 6800 GPU's. Considering my older m/b, should I go with the hotter (faster?)6600GT or the 6800?

Also, If my updated rig looks like the one below, could I run HL2 at 1024x768 with 4xAA enabled?

Less Older Gaming Rig
P4 2.66 533/FSB
GigaByte GA-8IEXP vers 2.0
1024 ram
GeForce 6600GT or 6800
WD 80Gb/8mb 7200
SB Live
300watt p/s
Win98SE

 

[Some1ne]

***Should I get the GeForce 6800 or the 6600GT?*** I thought the 6800 was about as fast and runs much cooler with a smaller GPU.

My understanding was that the plain 6800 performs only slightly better than the 6600 GT under most circumstances, and costs about $50 more on average. You might want to consider a 6800 GS if they exist in AGP flavors, it'll perform much better than either a 6600 GT or plain 6800, and the price on the 6800 GS cards is fairly reasonable.

 

[Quick1]

The two eVGA boards I have linked above, (6600GT-vs-6800) there is only a $25 difference. The only reason I was leaning towards the 6800 was because the GPU is less voltage hungry is supposed to run cooler. I thought that might help with my older m/b.

***Also, If my updated rig looks like the one below, could I run HL2 at 1024x768 with 4xAA enabled?***

Less Older Gaming Rig
P4 2.66 533/FSB
GigaByte GA-8IEXP vers 2.0
1024 ram
GeForce 6600GT or 6800
WD 80Gb/8mb 7200
SB Live
300watt p/s
Win98SE

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: Quick1
The two eVGA boards I have linked above, (6600GT-vs-6800) there is only a $25 difference. The only reason I was leaning towards the 6800 was because the GPU is less voltage hungry is supposed to run cooler. I thought that might help with my older m/b.

***Also, If my updated rig looks like the one below, could I run HL2 at 1024x768 with 4xAA enabled?***

Less Older Gaming Rig
P4 2.66 533/FSB
GigaByte GA-8IEXP vers 2.0
1024 ram
GeForce 6600GT or 6800
WD 80Gb/8mb 7200
SB Live
300watt p/s
Win98SE

Yes, you could run 4XAA at 1024 with relative ease. If you purcahsed the 6800, you may even be able to unlock the vertex processors and pixel pipelines.

This is assuming there is no big performance flaws with Windows 98 or the drivers for 98. If it were up to me, I would rather upgrade to Windows XP Home Edition than get a new processor. A P4 1.8 with 1GB of ram and a 6600GT with Windows XP would be preferable to a 2.66 with 98 in my book.

 

[Quick1]

dguy6789: "you may even be able to unlock the vertex processors and pixel pipelines."

Would you please explain what this means? So you would also go with the 6800 over the 6600GT?

Hmmm.....that's an interesting thought, spend the cpu money on an OS upgrade to WinXP instead.

***Ok....now what's my max. resolution available in HL2?***

Even Less Older Gaming Rig
P4 1.8 400/FSB
GigaByte GA-8IEXP vers 2.0
1024 ram
GeForce 6600GT or 6800
WD 80Gb/8mb 7200
SB Live
300watt p/s
WinXP Home Edition

 

[Some1ne]

dguy6789: "you may even be able to unlock the vertex processors and pixel pipelines."

Would you please explain what this means?

The the chips used non-ultra 6800 cards come with 4 additional pixel pipelines (and I think one additional shader unit) disabled in software. It is possible to use various utilities to enable these, which essentially gives you a free upgrade to a 6800 ultra (if you also overclock). There's no gurantee that the unlock will be successful (it's possible that the disabled pipelines are either damaged or defective), but from what I recall the success rate for this is actually fairly high.

***Ok....now what's my max. resolution available in HL2?***

Probably 1024x768, although possibly 1280x1024 if you don't need heavy AA/AF.

 

[dguy6789]

I would think that you could run 1280 max settings with a 6600GT or 6800 even with a Pentium 4 1.8.

The guy above nailed it. The AGP version of the 6800 has the ability to unlock the extra pipelines and vertex pipelines if you use certain software of which I am not certain of having never owned a 6800. Theoretically, if the mod works, your video card would be a good deal faster than unmodded. If the mod didn't work, you would still have a really good card.

Just for clarification, the Geforce 6800 is faster than the Geforce 6600GT.

 

[zagood]

I was in a similar situation about a year ago, mainly used my machine for web work and then got hooked on KOTOR...and realized what a video game junkie I could be. I spread out my upgrades since I was on a budget as well.

Once you start with one upgrade, you're going to find that you'll need other upgrades. With your "current" specs, you'll also need to upgrade your power supply. Any 6xxx series vga needs a solid 350watts, you should be looking around 400 watts. You do NOT need dual +12v rails. Should be able to find a decent one for around 50 bucks or less. Just make sure you get 25+ amps on the +12v rail.

Looking at your motherboard specs, for it's time that thing was badass. I'm thinking you might actually get a stable overclock with a new power supply and your same processor, that chip should get up to 2.6 no problem with an aftermarket heatsink. Make sure you use a multiplier in your BIOS settings so the ram stays at 266mhz until you replace the old ram.

Driver support for Win98 is pretty much non-existent these days, so WinXP should definitely be on your list.

WinXP has a little thing built into it where it takes a snapshot of your hardware. When you change too many pieces of hardware it actually won't load, and you have to call in to their customer service line to get a new vaildation code. Just make sure you're not switching too many things out after you've loaded XP...processor has the most "points" attributed to it, so if you switch out say, processor, hard drive and ram at the same time you'll probably have to call.

That being said, at some point you'll want to upgrade your processor anyway. Just be ready for that to happen. When you do get around to upgrading your processor, upgrade the motherboard as well. That way you won't be stuck with socket 478 choices. Even if you stick with 478 you should still upgrade the mobo if only to get AGP8x, SATA capability, and 800mhz FSB.

Should also put serious consideration into new heatsinks and fans. For about 60 bucks you can get a Zalman 7000b-AlCu or XP-90 for the processor and 700-AlCu for the VGA. Quieter and more efficient than stock and will get you a better OC.

Anyway, I'd suggest you split your current upgrade into 2 parts so you don't have to dump all the money at once. You can also put parts from upgrade #2 on your Christmachanukwaanzica list.

Upgrade #1
- New power supply
- 512mb ram pc3200
- 6800nu
(Approx. $250)

Upgrade #2
- Trade out your old ram for another 512mb ram pc3200
- New processor heatsink
- New VGA heatsink
- WinXP
(Approx. $200)

Later on down the line get the processor and mobo, and all of the new pieces you've bought will transfer directly over!

-z

 

[zagood]

Oh, also, to unlock the 6800nu use this thread

And this guide to tweak.

-z

edit: wrong link!

 

[Some1ne]

WinXP has a little thing built into it where it takes a snapshot of your hardware. When you change too many pieces of hardware it actually won't load

Only XP Home does that. If you use XP Pro that won't happen, which is good because I've upgraded just about every peice of hardware in my PC at least once without ever having to touch the Win XP install.

 

[zagood]

Originally posted by: Some1ne

WinXP has a little thing built into it where it takes a snapshot of your hardware. When you change too many pieces of hardware it actually won't load

Only XP Home does that. If you use XP Pro that won't happen, which is good because I've upgraded just about every peice of hardware in my PC at least once without ever having to touch the Win XP install.

Pretty sure the WPA is only inactive in copies of XP that come with pre-configured systems, where they use BIOS locking instead.

-z

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
From the technical profile of your motherboard, it looks like it does support 533Mhz FSB cpus as well as PC2100 memory.

My recommendation would be to purchase a Pentium 4 3.06Ghz w/HT for your cpu. This would not only give you a dramatic increase in processing power, but it would also give you HT, which is basically the only real reason to own an Intel cpu at this point in time. A quick look on pricewatch shows this cpu running for under $220.

I would also upgrade your memory. Purchase another 512 stick or two of ddr. This would cost around $35(get the one from Rosewill, they are the trusted cheap memory company) on newegg for a stick of PC3200(which I reccomend should you consider an Athlon 64 or even higher model P4 in the future)

Next, look for either a used 9800 Pro or a 6600GT with the latter being the preferable option. Both of them would allow you to play Half Life 2 at 1280X960 maximum settings with 4xAA and 16Xaf on the ati, not sure on the maximum af for the 6600GT. Newegg has 6600GTs for as low as $145(Do not get the lower priced 6600GTs as they have slower clocked memory and that could reduce performance). You can buy a 9800 Pro from newegg for $126 brand new. I would honestly say that the price difference between the two cards is quite relative to the difference in their respective performance. Purchase whichever you can afford.

If you are budget limited, you want to get the video card first, memory second, then cpu.

$220 for a P4 3.06ghz? For that price, he could get a faster athlon 64 cpu/motherboard combo. (and for games, even a cheap sempron combo is faster)

 

[Some1ne]

A cheap sempron combo is faster than a P4 for games? Since when? As much as I like AMD, the P4 is better than the sempron...although the sempron is much better than Intel's celeron.

 

[zagood]

^^^^^^
I agree.

-z

 

[Quick1]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys! Didn?t realize there is still some gaming life in my old P4 1.8. Sounds like I?ll be getting the 6800 over the 6600GT. Also, I?ll postpone the cpu purchase and use that on an OS upgrade.

Zagood: You?re right, in the day this m/b was hot sh#t! Thanks for the detailed feedback! I actually do have an after-market cooler on the cpu. It?s a Vantec AeroFlow. It?s the one with the fan driven magnetically. I was able to o/c the 1.8 to 2.4 for a few days, but started to get lock-up?s and h/d corruption errors. I even tried bumping up the voltage several steps. Maybe, if I chuck it and get a newer one, an o/c back to 2.4 could be in the cards. I also have an after-market Thermaltake cooler on my Ti-4400 core and memory, which is still working great.

Uncle Bill?s hardware validation scheme was one of the things that turned me off to XP. But, I guess I?ve put the OS upgrade off as long as I can.

 

[zagood]

Remember, you're going to need a new power supply with that vid card. Also that heatsink should be fine for the 1.8, you can replace it if you want but not necessary as long as the fan's not slowing down or getting too loud. You can find the Zalman 7000's or Thermalright XP-90's for around 30 bucks. Either of those would be perfect for that chip.

-z

 

[Quick1]

What about this one, it's rated a 22A on +12V?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182008