Can I Upgrade my Processor?

[JosephBAdams]

Hello, I have a question about upgrading my computer's processor. My PC is a Dell Dimension 8400 that I purchased a few years ago, and I am generally quite satisfied with its performance. For the purposes of my question, I am interested in upgrading my processor because I want my system to run games better.

The Basics:

I have made only a few changes to my system since purchasing it in 2004/2005:
- Added a backup hard drive
- Upgraded to 2 GB RAM (533 MHz Corsair Select)
- Upgraded to nVidia 7800 GTX 256 MB
- Upgraded to an Antec 600W power supply unit that totally rocks

My current processor is an Intel Pentium IV Prescott 3.4 GHz (Socket 775 I'm pretty sure). Based on my own experience and research, I have come to the conclusion that this processor is pretty crappy. If I have researched this issue correctly, my current motherboard is the J3492 Dell mobo.

My Question:

Can I upgrade to a better processor while keeping my current motherboard and RAM? What are my options? Would it be more prudent (and cost-efficient) to upgrade both the motherboard and the processor [which would also mean I would have to buy a new case]?

Thanks for your help! If I've left out any information pertinent for any of you guys to answer, please let me know and I'll fill in the gaps.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

I seriously doubt it. Your Pentium 4 is probably a socket 478. Also, if you bought a new motherboard, the same RAM would work.

BUT! If the Pentium is a socket 775, you can upgrade.

Download CPU-Z and check.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Hi Joseph,

You have a Socket 775 processor on the 925X Express chipset (source).

Newer CPUs (Core 2 series) use LGA 775, so they're physically compatible, but you will probably need a new BIOS.

You need to find out the manufacturer and model number of your motherboard (use a program such as PC Wizard). Then go to the manufacturer's website to see what that mobo supports, and if you can flash the BIOS to support newer processors.

Good luck!

 

[JosephBAdams]

Thanks for your quick replies! I've posted some additional information so that maybe you can help me more.

In response to Blue Acolyte's question about the socket of my processor, it's definitely a Socket 775 [according to both InflatableBuddha (citing Dell) and CPU-Z (neat program, thanks for recommending it, Blue!)]

In response to InflatableBuddha's note about my motherboard and checking for BIOS compatibility with Core 2 processors, here's what I have determined: it's a Dell manufactured motherboard (Product 0U7077) running BIOS A09; for what it's worth, BIOS is flashable and not socketed.

From what I have just found on Dell's forums, it sounds like Core 2 processors do not work with my motherboard. Moreover, it sounds like the highest I can upgrade is to the 6xx Intel series...right now my processor is the Prescott 3.4 GHz 550.

Based on this information, doesn't it sound like upgrading my CPU is pointless and I should just look into the new mobo/processor direction so that I can run a Dual Core?

Best,

Joseph

 

[JosephBAdams]

After looking at some stuff in PC Wizard, I have a second question: is my RAM running like it should? I don't really know much about RAM, so I've just copy-pasted everything PC Wizard told me:

General Information :
CHANNEL A DIMM 0 ( ) : 512 MB - DIMM
CHANNEL B DIMM 0 ( ) : 512 MB - DIMM
CHANNEL A DIMM 1 ( ) : 512 MB - DIMM
CHANNEL B DIMM 1 ( ) : 512 MB - DIMM

Information SPD EEPROM (CHANNEL A DIMM 0) :
Manufacturer : Corsair
Part Number : VS512MB533D2
Serial Number : Unspecified
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-4300 (266 MHz) - [DDR2-533]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 512 MB (1 ranks, 4 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs, Self Refresh
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : 2000
Supported Frequencies : 200 MHz, 266 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 9 clocks @200 MHz, 12 clocks @266 MHz
Min TRC : 11 clocks @200 MHz, 15 clocks @266 MHz

Information SPD EEPROM (CHANNEL B DIMM 0) :
Manufacturer : Samsung
Part Number : M3 78T6553BG0-CD5
Serial Number : 43096CDE
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-4300 (266 MHz) - [DDR2-533]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 512 MB (1 ranks, 4 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : Week 48 of 2004
Supported Frequencies : 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 266 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @266 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 8 clocks @200 MHz, 11 clocks @266 MHz, 11 clocks @266 MHz
Min TRC : 11 clocks @200 MHz, 15 clocks @266 MHz, 15 clocks @266 MHz

Information SPD EEPROM (CHANNEL A DIMM 1) :
Manufacturer : Corsair
Part Number : VS512MB533D2
Serial Number : Unspecified
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-4300 (266 MHz) - [DDR2-533]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 512 MB (1 ranks, 4 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs, Self Refresh
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : 2000
Supported Frequencies : 200 MHz, 266 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 9 clocks @200 MHz, 12 clocks @266 MHz
Min TRC : 11 clocks @200 MHz, 15 clocks @266 MHz

Information SPD EEPROM (CHANNEL B DIMM 1) :
Manufacturer : Samsung
Part Number : M3 78T6553BG0-CD5
Serial Number : 43016CC2
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-4300 (266 MHz) - [DDR2-533]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 512 MB (1 ranks, 4 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : Week 48 of 2004
Supported Frequencies : 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 266 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @266 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 8 clocks @200 MHz, 11 clocks @266 MHz, 11 clocks @266 MHz
Min TRC : 11 clocks @200 MHz, 15 clocks @266 MHz, 15 clocks @266 MHz

Memory Controller Information :
Memory Controller : System Memory
Location : Mainboard
Error Correction Capability : Single-bit ECC
Number of connectors : 4
Max. Module Size : 4096 KB

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: JosephBAdams
Thanks for your quick replies! I've posted some additional information so that maybe you can help me more.

In response to Blue Acolyte's question about the socket of my processor, it's definitely a Socket 775 [according to both InflatableBuddha (citing Dell) and CPU-Z (neat program, thanks for recommending it, Blue!)]

In response to InflatableBuddha's note about my motherboard and checking for BIOS compatibility with Core 2 processors, here's what I have determined: it's a Dell manufactured motherboard (Product 0U7077) running BIOS A09; for what it's worth, BIOS is flashable and not socketed.

From what I have just found on Dell's forums, it sounds like Core 2 processors do not work with my motherboard. Moreover, it sounds like the highest I can upgrade is to the 6xx Intel series...right now my processor is the Prescott 3.4 GHz 550.

Based on this information, doesn't it sound like upgrading my CPU is pointless and I should just look into the new mobo/processor direction so that I can run a Dual Core?

Best,

Joseph

Yep, sounds like a new Core2/mobo (and case) are in order. Luckily, you can reuse all your other components, including your RAM and graphics card.

Check the General Hardware forum for some ideas on what motherboard/CPU/case to get. There are a bunch of "new build" threads. Also consider whether to go quad-core, or stick with dual-core.

As for the RAM, I'm not much of an expert on that, sorry.

 

[JosephBAdams]

Do you guys think this would be a good option:

Intel E2200 plus ECS 945GCT-M motherboard for $80???

http://shopping.dallasnews.com...5&subid=19625334&type=

 

[o1die]

The price is right, but it may not fit in your dell case. If your dell warranty is expired, and you have some experience with changing boards, you might pull it off. But some dell boards are proprietary, meaning btx or other unusual form factor. Look at the back of the case for the board port configuration. See if the backplate is built into the board, or separate and removable. Check for a special case connector going to your old dell board. You might have to do some splicing to get it to fit the new board. Also, be sure your dell windows copy will boot up to a non dell motherboard. Some will not. The good news is that Fry's will give you 15 days to return the board and cpu, as long as you have all the packing materials and receipt, and nothing is damaged. I've never had any problems returning items to Fry's.

 

[Mondoman]

First, the RAM in you old system could in theory be reused in a new system, but there are two practical problems:
1) It's too slow to support a decent CPU FSB speed of 1333MHz (which would require 2 DDR2-667 or faster DIMMs).
2) It's a low-quality line, unlike Corsair's excellent XMS2/TWIN2X lines.j
You can buy 2x1GB of good DDR2-800 XMS2/TWIN2X RAM from newegg for $30 or so after rebate.

Second, stay away from ECS motherboards -- they're cheap (in both senses), which is why they're often thrown in for free in MB+CPU bundles.

Finally (seemingly paradoxically), I think you'll be better off with an e2160 CPU than an e2200:

The Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L is a great quality board that will allow you to run a 1333MHz FSB and easily overclock an e2xxx CPU, as well as (almost certainly) being able to upgrade to future 1600MHz CPUs. You can get it for $90 or so from newegg.com.
CPU-wise, your safest overclocking bet IMHO is something like an e2160. The final limit on OCing one of the e2xxx CPUs is most likely going to be the core, not the FSB. It's pretty clear that the e2xxx series (like other Core2Duo CPUs) can handle a 3GHz core speed pretty easily. Also, 1333MHz is now a "standard" FSB speed for a number of Intel CPUs, and the motherboard is designed for it, so you should be able to run your e2xxx at 1333MHz FSB *as long as that doesn't raise the core speed too high*. You're pretty much stuck with the built-in multipliers on the e2xxx series, so here's what you get running them at 1333MHz FSB datarate (333MHz FSB clock):
e2140 (8x multiplier) 2.67 GHz
e2160 (9x multiplier) 3.0 GHz
e2180 (10x multiplier) 3.33 GHz
e2200 (11x multiplier) 3.67 GHz
Of these, the e2180/e2200 would be running at speeds likely too fast for successful easy overclocking (stock CPU cooler, stock CPU voltage), while the e2160/e2140 should be fine. You could run the e2180/e2200 at slower FSB clocks, but then why not just buy an e2160, since you're targeting the same CPU core speed anyway?

 

[JosephBAdams]

oldie, yeah, I'd definitely go to a new case.

Mondoman thanks for your advice! Sounds like the DS3L plus an E2160 might be a good fit for me.

 

[krnmastersgt]

What I find funny is that sometimes my local Fry's has special deals on mobo+cpu combos and they're worth getting since you get the cpu for less money than buying an OEM one

 

[JosephBAdams]

Duplicated post; stupid server errors!

 

[JosephBAdams]

Mondo, any advice on a case if I went with the DS3L and the e2160/2180?

Also, if I got an e2200 for $50 would that be considered a really good deal that makes it worth picking over the e2160?

 

[Mondoman]

krn - you're so right. That's how I got my e6420 last year. I was at least able to make use of the "free" ECS MB with an old Pentium 805D to start experimenting with Ubuntu.

 

[JosephBAdams]

Mondoman, I'm taking your advice and shooting for a DS3L + e2160 (or e2180) setup. Should I definitely upgrade my RAM too?

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Yea, that's a really good deal you got there. If you can get a free motherboard, just go put some stuff in it and sell it. or skip the putting stuff in it.

CPU-Z is pretty standard issue for a system builder.

Some other good programs are

GPU-Z (video card)
CoreTemp (CPU)
Speedfan (system monitoring)
Rivatuner (video card)
AtiTool (video card)
Memtest86+ (memory test)
Prime95/Orthos (stress test)

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: JosephBAdams
Should I definitely upgrade my RAM too?

You'll need to, if you're wanting to overclock past 2.4 Ghz. Also, overclocking with 4 sticks of RAM is never as good as it is with only two sticks.

 

[JosephBAdams]

Bump, added new question to topic thread.

 

[Greg04]

Joe,

I was in your situation about 6 months ago and found that resale values on Dells were actually quite good. I sold my 3.2ghz 8400 for more than $300 on ebay and bought a C2D system from the ground up with the proceeds - total system cost back then was $625 including Vista Premium. Now, iI have a CD2 e4500 at 3.3ghz...never looked back. Just another option.

Greg