Can I audio record my upstairs neighbor being loud af?

[Torn Mind]

I've never lived where there's a HOA, but my sister does and she's having a problem with a neighbor downstairs who smokes on his porch. He's also acted menacingly to some tenants. They have recently engaged in hearings in an effort to control or expel the guy (he lives with his mother, apparently has a criminal record). Sister is optimistic they can get him removed from the condo complex (sister owns with her partner).

I'd think that the evidently documented case of your neighbor vandalizing your LEDs and solar panels would be enough to get them kicked out. I'm surprised that hasn't happened already.

I doubt any HOA has the power to evict as they do not possess the property a resident is in nor even own it. They can send certain violations many other things depending on the bylaws, such as fines.

Leased apartments are the same. The lease holds power even if the dude gets jailed for a few days or months.

 

[Muse]

I doubt any HOA has the power to evict as they do not possess the property a resident is in nor even own it. They can send certain violations many other things depending on the bylaws, such as fines.

Leased apartments are the same. The lease holds power even if the dude gets jailed for a few days or months.

Makes me think I don't want to live where there's an HOA. I haven't lived in many shared apartment buildings and it's been a real long time. I figure I don't want to live in a condo. I have problems enough with my neighbors that border my property. Loud parties, TV watchers who don't GAF, same with their stereos, don't manage their overhanging trees and weeds, fabric softeners' annoying smells coming from their washes... one guy used to have his older car idling interminably next to my house, just upwind of me and the smell of his exhaust drove me nuts when I was in my yard. I talked to him. He was hard headed and evidently totally unsympathetic, but the talk seemed to help and he finally moved. There's a house about 70 yards upwind of me that has a totally deteriorated blue tarp on the roof that's lost all effectiveness some 5 years ago. I see strands from it all the time on my lot. I complained to the city around 3 months ago but nothing's been done. I'll have to complain again if they don't remove it. Guy behind me, his big lab dog (that he never exercised) would bark incessantly. We, on both sides, complained. He finally, after pressure from the city, bought a collar that shocked the dog when he barked. The dog was usually pretty quiet after that, died recently I'm told (something I was praying HARD for 4-5 years ago). The neighbor on the opposite side and I, both, fantasized about poisoning that dog! 3 of my neighbors have had very bright annoying outside lights at times. I don't have a next door neighbor that hasn't annoyed me at some point.

 

[pmv]

as the famous Zen aphorism goes,

"if a neighbor makes a sound,
but the cops show up and kill you
leaving noone to hear it,
does he still make a sound?"

Even if they show up and shoot the neighbor, what does it profit a man to gain a quiet apartment but lose a quiet conscience?

The general principle, though, to me, is if they aren't reasonable enough not to be making anti-social levels of noise in the first place, why would one expect them to react reasonably to being asked to keep it down?

 

[Torn Mind]

Makes me think I don't want to live where there's an HOA. I haven't lived in many shared apartment buildings and it's been a real long time. I figure I don't want to live in a condo. I have problems enough with my neighbors that border my property. Parties, TV watchers who don't GAF, same with their stereos, don't manage their overhanging trees and weeds, fabric softeners' annoying smells coming from their washes... one guy used to have his older car idling next to my house, just upwind of me and the smell of his exhaust drove me nuts when I was in my yard. I talked to him. He was hard headed, but the talk seemed to help and he finally moved. There's a house about 70 yards upwind of me that has a totally deteriorated blue tarp on the roof that's lost all effectiveness some 5 years ago. I see strands from it all the time on my lot. I complained to the city around 3 months ago but nothing's been done. I'll have to complain again if they don't remove it. Guy behind me, his dog would bark incessantly. We, on both sides, complained. He finally, after pressure from the city, bought a collar that shocked the dog when he barked. The dog was usually pretty quiet after that, died recently I'm told (something I was praying HARD for 4-5 years ago). The neighbor on the opposite side and I, both, fantasized about poisoning that dog!

HOAs are inherently inefficient and not cost effective for the residents because the Board gets certain legal protections and the legal obligation favors the Board and the entity. Where not paying dues can be a legit means of protest in many scenarios, it not the case with the HOA. With that said, some might enforce maintenance better than a municipal government.

Furthermore, as they are companies and private entities, there are no FOIA obligations to outsiders to check their work. Only insiders of the community can participate, and even there, the law can give them leeway to drag their feet regarding giving out documentation. Oftentimes, the Board will take advantage of the legal defaults and dare the member to sue via the courts or other appropriate government entity to determine the outcome.

In practice, HOAs are a way for municipalities and counties to offload the burden of enforcing maintenance(although the HOA can still bring them in if needed) and misconduct to private individuals who volunteer to work for the HOA "company".

Those Surfside, FL residents will likely still have to pay their dues even if the building is uninhabitable or no longer existent because the law is mechanical like that.

The reason the legal defaults favor the HOA and not the residents is simple. Homeowners are presumed to be money-loaded and thus easy pickings to extract said money.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

HOAs are inherently inefficient and not cost effective for the residents because the Board gets certain legal protections and the legal obligation favors the Board and the entity. Where not paying dues can be a legit means of protest in many scenarios, it not the case with the HOA. With that said, some might enforce maintenance better than a municipal government.

Furthermore, as they are companies and private entities, there are no FOIA obligations to outsiders to check their work. Only insiders of the community can participate, and even there, the law can give them leeway to drag their feet regarding giving out documentation. Oftentimes, the Board will take advantage of the legal defaults and dare the member to sue via the courts or other appropriate government entity to determine the outcome.

In practice, HOAs are a way for municipalities and counties to offload the burden of enforcing maintenance(although the HOA can still bring them in if needed) and misconduct to private individuals who volunteer to work for the HOA "company".

Those Surfside, FL residents will likely still have to pay their dues even if the building is uninhabitable or no longer existent because the law is mechanical like that.

The reason the legal defaults favor the HOA and not the residents is simple. Homeowners are presumed to be money-loaded and thus easy pickings to extract said money.

I agree with you in the sense of the part - where HOAs own your balls too much, where you can't even protest by withholding your dues. They just put a lien on your house and you're pretty fucked.

However, HOAs do have their place, and it's up to you if you want to avoid them or not. Personally, I'll put up with an occasional eye roll for sending me a letter for not bringing my trash can in for a day over having morons park their shitty trailers, have overgrown weed lawns, oil spills all over the driveway, etc.... bringing down the value of the neighborhood.

 

[Torn Mind]

I agree with you in the sense of the part - where HOAs own your balls too much, where you can't even protest by withholding your dues. They just put a lien on your house and you're pretty fucked.

However, HOAs do have their place, and it's up to you if you want to avoid them or not. Personally, I'll put up with an occasional eye roll for sending me a letter for not bringing my trash can in for a day over having morons park their shitty trailers, have overgrown weed lawns, oil spills all over the driveway, etc.... bringing down the value of the neighborhood.

My experience with some local HOAs is that the maintenance is the bare minimum they give and the rest is pocketed. Once was so badly run a fucking charismatic criminal tenant(they would leave eventually and in their new, out of community place, he would wind up buried by his corrupt ass fat mulatto pass-for-white wife-- he's a registered sex offender now but wasn't during is "President" fraud) was allowed to fraudulently act as "President" and lord over the rest of the place. The property management cabal was fully on board as well. So much money was stolen even trash pickup had to be stopped for months...and they did the roofs even though that was the owner's responsibility and not their's just to cover up the swindling.

 

[nakedfrog]

Before I bought my new place within an HOA, I looked for complaints on social media (didn't find any, something I did find with a different HOA), and then I got hold of the last couple years of newsletters, looked over meeting minutes, budgets, etc. Certainly sounds like a YMMV kind of thing.

 

[Iron Woode]

as far as I am concerned, if you are recording the noise from inside your apt then it is perfectly legal.

If they are worried about being recorded then they shouldn't be making so much noise.

 

[Muse]

Even if they show up and shoot the neighbor, what does it profit a man to gain a quiet apartment but lose a quiet conscience?

The general principle, though, to me, is if they aren't reasonable enough not to be making anti-social levels of noise in the first place, why would one expect them to react reasonably to being asked to keep it down?

My thought is just that this isn't scientific. A person, family, unit makes a certain amount of noise on a spectrum of time (7AM, 9PM, midnight, 2AM, etc.), they hear what it's like from where they are, not where YOU are. I play a stereo in my kitchen. I do give some thought to the possibility of it bugging my neighbors. But how do I know how it sounds to them, or even if they can hear it at all? I sometimes leave it on and go outside, for whatever purpose and listen and imagine what it might sound like inside the apartment building next to me. If they were to complain, that's a data point I can't ignore. I've never gotten a complaint, which is no proof I'm not bugging someone. I am self monitoring, but there are times I turn up the music because, damn, it's great. I don't leave it turned up, though.

 

[z1ggy]

Sounds like this woman understands extrajudicial justice is a legit avenue to getting what she wants no matter how much people's feelings' get hurt. Would not be surprised if she's running a front for less than savory activities based on her paranoia and her willingness to destroy property.

How exactly are the living quarters configured? Can this neighbor annoying another around her? Again, where I'm at, it's either the police deal with it in progress or two parties have to write a complainant.

It's going to be an uphill battle for you, because these tenants know they have their own legal protections and being an annoying POS is their way of making a moat for themselves. Someone will leave and oftentimes it's the better behaved person...

These are condo's where each living unit has a small one car driveway, and they are almost built to be... like a Tetris puzzle. Said neighbor is to my left, and has a mirror image of our unit, except it goes upstairs. Where we have a hallway from our garage, she has a flight of stairs. Where our 1st floor patio is, she has one also, directly above (basically an outdoor Deck). If she stomps and jumps up and down in her bedroom... it's basically like stomping on our heads.

I talked to the HOA president today, who happens to be a friend now. Really not much she can do she said, I can just "mount some evidence" that she's disturbing the peace and I could call the cops if I wanted. Like others mentioned, I don't think an HOA can evict, but they can fine you. I feel like if I went on record, with just cause (recordings of the noise during quiet times, a log of all disturbance events) and she continued to make such noise and I was able to record it, they could start levying fines on her. To me, she currently has NO motivation to stop and NO consequences for her actions. I sent the cops to her place after I "suspected" she vandalized and trespassed to my property, but without the video records or a confession, she gets nothing.

Oh and FWIW, I am a renter but she owns her unit. And yes, the HOA is basically useless. They are quick to send out emails for things like, "you put your trash cans out too early, failure to follow HOA guidelines will result in a fine" but if you have a literal crazy person above you performing the Hakka at 1am, they don't do shit.

 

[pmv]

My thought is just that this isn't scientific. A person, family, unit makes a certain amount of noise on a spectrum of time (7AM, 9PM, midnight, 2AM, etc.), they hear what it's like from where they are, not where YOU are. I play a stereo in my kitchen. I do give some thought to the possibility of it bugging my neighbors. But how do I know how it sounds to them, or even if they can hear it at all? I sometimes leave it on and go outside, for whatever purpose and listen and imagine what it might sound like inside the apartment building next to me. If they were to complain, that's a data point I can't ignore. I've never gotten a complaint, which is no proof I'm not bugging someone. I am self monitoring, but there are times I turn up the music because, damn, it's great. I don't leave it turned up, though.

In my experience people don't make excessive noise because they aren't aware that it bothers the neighbours, they do so because they don't care about the neighbours, or because they are deliberately being aggressive (it's a way of dominating your "territory", it seems, for some). That's happened twice in my life, in neither case did politely asking for them to stop playing their stereo at furniture-shaking volume all night long for 12 hours at a stretch several weeknights a week, have any positive effect.

The obvious truth is anyone who does that in the first place, does it because they don't care about anyone else.

I don't know about the circumstances of the OP, or the nature of their neighbours, so I'm really just projecting from my own past stressful situations, and that might not be relevant. I just think in general people under-estimate how unreasonable 'neighbours' often are (I had a friend once who kept getting burgled - every time he replaced stolen stuff with the insurance, he got burgled again...eventually turned out it was his neighbours who were the burglars...neighbours are often pretty vile).

 

[z1ggy]

My thought is just that this isn't scientific. A person, family, unit makes a certain amount of noise on a spectrum of time (7AM, 9PM, midnight, 2AM, etc.), they hear what it's like from where they are, not where YOU are. I play a stereo in my kitchen. I do give some thought to the possibility of it bugging my neighbors. But how do I know how it sounds to them, or even if they can hear it at all? I sometimes leave it on and go outside, for whatever purpose and listen and imagine what it might sound like inside the apartment building next to me. If they were to complain, that's a data point I can't ignore. I've never gotten a complaint, which is no proof I'm not bugging someone. I am self monitoring, but there are times I turn up the music because, damn, it's great. I don't leave it turned up, though.

In my experience people don't make excessive noise because they aren't aware that it bothers the neighbours, they do so because they don't care about the neighbours, or because they are deliberately being aggressive (it's a way of dominating your "territory", it seems, for some). That's happened twice in my life, in neither case did politely asking for them to stop playing their stereo at furniture-shaking volume all night long for 12 hours at a stretch several weeknights a week, have any positive effect.

The obvious truth is anyone who does that in the first place, does it because they don't care about anyone else.

I don't know about the circumstances of the OP, or the nature of their neighbours, so I'm really just projecting from my own past stressful situations, and that might not be relevant. I just think in general people under-estimate how unreasonable 'neighbours' often are (I had a friend once who kept getting burgled - every time he replaced stolen stuff with the insurance, he got burgled again...eventually turned out it was his neighbours who were the burglars...neighbours are often pretty vile).

Well let's put it this way regarding my situation and the neighbor: She's lived here for well over a year, and the evidence points to her both not caring about how her actions affect others and this being deliberate.

When she first moved in, what was the first thing she did? Immediately started construction on the unit that lasted MONTHS because it was done by this one random guy. Wasn't to code likely either. We actually complained on that one because... Who drills and power saws right above their neighbor at 7am? One day the guy was cutting tile outside and the dust was spraying all over my car. Only when I walked outside randomly did it suddenly become an, ooops so sorry, for her.

After that, things were totally fine. We never heard banging, stomping, dropping of stuff and so on. All of a sudden, we have this little altercation and what happens? Literally every day for the last 2 weeks or so, there's been LOUD banging and stomping, particularly at night in the bedroom (remember, we have mirror image units, hers on top of ours). Who has the room to jump, stomp/run in their bedroom? Has she suddenly discovered her joy of Irish step dance?? I believe it's now intentional.

 

[snoopy7548]

This one's for you, OP!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

New upstairs neighbor stomps around and sounds like she's literally sprinting around up there and rolling 50lb boulders around. Cops told us (because she also likely damaged our property recently) to keep a log of all events, but I also want to record this so I have a lot of evidence for when I file a complaint against her.

1) I live in NJ which is a One Party consent state, so... is that legal?
2) If it's legal, what device can I use? My cell phone can't really get the "full effect" of this wall rumbling

I am not a lawyer but to me recording something in your own living space that captures someone else obviously being extremely loud in their living space would be perfectly fine.
The recording rules are typically geared towards phone calls.
I think someone making so much noise it leaves thier private space wouldn’t be protected.

 

[Torn Mind]

My thought is just that this isn't scientific. A person, family, unit makes a certain amount of noise on a spectrum of time (7AM, 9PM, midnight, 2AM, etc.), they hear what it's like from where they are, not where YOU are. I play a stereo in my kitchen. I do give some thought to the possibility of it bugging my neighbors. But how do I know how it sounds to them, or even if they can hear it at all? I sometimes leave it on and go outside, for whatever purpose and listen and imagine what it might sound like inside the apartment building next to me. If they were to complain, that's a data point I can't ignore. I've never gotten a complaint, which is no proof I'm not bugging someone. I am self monitoring, but there are times I turn up the music because, damn, it's great. I don't leave it turned up, though.

Dealing with individuals is a case-by-case basis, with the realization that anyone and everyone can be somewhere on the spectrum of behavior, including extremes. A person living a normal life will never be able to draw a truly scientific sample and even so, every data requires attention simply because extreme behavior still requires practical methods to deal with.

And it's not totally unscientific. The same genetics that made our ancestors tribal are still there. It's just that the current system rewards the aggressive 4d-chessers rather than the brazen warpath blazers.

Furthermore, there have been crises and there behavior of the commoner during and after diasters is a reflection of how much "I" matters more than "we" in the USA, such as the looting after Katrina. Compare that to the relative restraint of the Japanese in general (but some individuals might have taken advantage still) after a crisis can be explained by the unwritten rules of caring for those with in the group and shaming.

And in actual fact, there have been just enough instances of Americans getting wrecked by strangers to have caution when dealing with them, indicating that someone who you don't know can very well harm you. From scammers to murderers, the stranger can be capable of great harm and planning for such a contingency is no condemnation of the character of the person.

 

[Muse]

Dealing with individuals is a case-by-case basis, with the realization that anyone and everyone can be somewhere on the spectrum of behavior, including extremes. A person living a normal life will never be able to draw a truly scientific sample and even so, every data requires attention simply because extreme behavior still requires practical methods to deal with.

And it's not totally unscientific. The same genetics that made our ancestors tribal are still there. It's just that the current system rewards the aggressive 4d-chessers rather than the brazen warpath blazers.

Furthermore, there have been crises and there behavior of the commoner during and after diasters is a reflection of how much "I" matters more than "we" in the USA, such as the looting after Katrina. Compare that to the relative restraint of the Japanese in general (but some individuals might have taken advantage still) after a crisis can be explained by the unwritten rules of caring for those with in the group and shaming.

And in actual fact, there have been just enough instances of Americans getting wrecked by strangers to have caution when dealing with them, indicating that someone who you don't know can very well harm you. From scammers to murderers, the stranger can be capable of great harm and planning for such a contingency is no condemnation of the character of the person.

Yes, I lock my doors and windows, don't leave stuff outside my house I'd hate to discover was removed by strangers perusing my lot. I try to be situationally aware, I lock my car. I don't answer the phone these days unless I'm expecting a call or I see on the LCD that it's a legit caller (it's usually not). The USA these days IMO more than in previous decades is problematical. I wish I could say I expect things will get better. At least Trump is out of office.

 

[Zorba]

I agree with you in the sense of the part - where HOAs own your balls too much, where you can't even protest by withholding your dues. They just put a lien on your house and you're pretty fucked.

However, HOAs do have their place, and it's up to you if you want to avoid them or not. Personally, I'll put up with an occasional eye roll for sending me a letter for not bringing my trash can in for a day over having morons park their shitty trailers, have overgrown weed lawns, oil spills all over the driveway, etc.... bringing down the value of the neighborhood.

Not paying your HOA dues in protest is like not paying your property taxes or mortgage in protest. You agree to pay for the upkeep of the common areas when you buy the house, just like property taxes.

The difference being, if you don't like the dues it's nice easier to get involved and try to change it. I've dealt with many homeowners that came to board meetings convinced we were wasting money, 6 month later they were bitching that there dues were too low to properly maintain the neighborhood (we actually raised dues 20% this year with 60% of the members voting yes and only a handful of noes).

 

[Zorba]

These are condo's where each living unit has a small one car driveway, and they are almost built to be... like a Tetris puzzle. Said neighbor is to my left, and has a mirror image of our unit, except it goes upstairs. Where we have a hallway from our garage, she has a flight of stairs. Where our 1st floor patio is, she has one also, directly above (basically an outdoor Deck). If she stomps and jumps up and down in her bedroom... it's basically like stomping on our heads.

I talked to the HOA president today, who happens to be a friend now. Really not much she can do she said, I can just "mount some evidence" that she's disturbing the peace and I could call the cops if I wanted. Like others mentioned, I don't think an HOA can evict, but they can fine you. I feel like if I went on record, with just cause (recordings of the noise during quiet times, a log of all disturbance events) and she continued to make such noise and I was able to record it, they could start levying fines on her. To me, she currently has NO motivation to stop and NO consequences for her actions. I sent the cops to her place after I "suspected" she vandalized and trespassed to my property, but without the video records or a confession, she gets nothing.

Oh and FWIW, I am a renter but she owns her unit. And yes, the HOA is basically useless. They are quick to send out emails for things like, "you put your trash cans out too early, failure to follow HOA guidelines will result in a fine" but if you have a literal crazy person above you performing the Hakka at 1am, they don't do shit.

HOAs are limited to enforcing what is spelled out in their covenants, some are very broad, some are very narrow. I get asked about barking dogs all the time, but we have nothing in our covenants, so nothing we can do. I tell them to try talking to their neighbor and if that fails give the city ordinance and instructions on how to contact code enforcement.

 

[pauldun170]

- Get super sensitive mic and record her during peak times.
- Create a "best of".
- Try and figure out when she goes to sleep
- Buy big old speaker and and mount to the ceiling facing up.
- Play best of noisy neighbor soundtrack on loop
- Move out and buy a house. Live there
- Every St Patricks day, mail her a USB containing the sound file along with a picture of Carl Sagan.
- Report back to us and invite us over for cake

 

[z1ggy]

HOAs are limited to enforcing what is spelled out in their covenants, some are very broad, some are very narrow. I get asked about barking dogs all the time, but we have nothing in our covenants, so nothing we can do. I tell them to try talking to their neighbor and if that fails give the city ordinance and instructions on how to contact code enforcement.

Yeah the property manager just informed us this morning to contact a lawyer. Landlord is aware now and contacted his lawyer, too. Essentially 2, if not 3 different attorney might get involved.

Not sure exactly what this process will be, but I am still nervous about having to serve this person who lives ya know... like at certain points just a few dozen feet from us with legal papers. Especially somebody who is clearly irrational.

You don't know what people are dealing with and what their mental state is. I don't want to live in fear but I think I'm extra concerned because we have a child. Hopefully if some kind of official notice is served to her, this just goes away and we can get on with our lives.

 

[z1ggy]

- Get super sensitive mic and record her during peak times.
- Create a "best of".
- Try and figure out when she goes to sleep
- Buy big old speaker and and mount to the ceiling facing up.
- Play best of noisy neighbor soundtrack on loop
- Move out and buy a house. Live there
- Every St Patricks day, mail her a USB containing the sound file along with a picture of Carl Sagan.
- Report back to us and invite us over for cake

Honestly, this is absolutely epic. I'm not the super vindictive type, but I might have to be now.

 

[Torn Mind]

Yeah the property manager just informed us this morning to contact a lawyer. Landlord is aware now and contacted his lawyer, too. Essentially 2, if not 3 different attorney might get involved.

Not sure exactly what this process will be, but I am still nervous about having to serve this person who lives ya know... like at certain points just a few dozen feet from us with legal papers. Especially somebody who is clearly irrational.

You don't know what people are dealing with and what their mental state is. I don't want to live in fear but I think I'm extra concerned because we have a child. Hopefully if some kind of official notice is served to her, this just goes away and we can get on with our lives.

Is there a nuisance code in your locality? Based on the NJ gov site regarding noise, a nuisance code doesn't operate under an objective, hard decibel number that is needed for noise enforcement.

Oh, and retaliation? Don't be surprised. Your car's tire's sidewalls might have a hole in the near future, given that she already cut your LED lights.

Also, the appearance of irrationality might actually pure and rational vindictive retaliation with the "crazy" being a façade. The legally savvy also will not be afraid to push the limits of bad behavior because they know the rules can't adequately protect the victims.....There is a gap between the written word and what actually can be enforced by the agents of law(courts/cops, etc) with hard proof.

I say people like her are rational because understanding law at a de facto level requires understanding of rules, consequences, and the logic of how to build a case and then poke holes in a case. People like her are not at a lack of understanding, but rather have a greater understanding than most laypeople regarding the law and how punishments/benefits are systemically conferred.

NJDEP-Office of Local Environmental Management
August 2008

Noise Ordinance versus Nuisance Code

Introduction
This is an overview of the New Jersey laws governing noise control, with an
emphasis on which laws may be enforced by county and municipal agencies. This
summary should not be construed as legal advice, but rather serve as guidance to
understand the extent of authority provided to local governments.

Noise Ordinance
The Noise Control Act of 1971, N.J.S.A. 13:1G-1 et seq. authorizes the New Jersey
Department of Environmental Protection (NJDEP) to establish sound level standards,
which are codified in the Noise Regulations at N.J.A.C. 7:29. These regulations apply to
stationary commercial and industrial properties. The statewide sound level standards are
50 decibels during nighttime (10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m.) and 65 decibels during daytime,
which applies to sources of noise specified in N.J.A.C. 7:29-1.2. A noise ordinance
adopted by a county or municipality must be approved by NJDEP to verify that the
ordinance is consistent with the statewide strategy for noise control and that the
ordinance is more stringent than the State’s noise regulations. A noise ordinance
establishes standards that are measurable by a certified noise investigator using a
calibrated sound meter.

NJDEP has developed a model noise ordinance for use by municipalities to address
nonresidential and residential sources of noise; however, there is no requirement that a
municipality uses the model. A municipality must submit the adopted noise ordinance to
NJDEP for approval prior to its use.

Nuisance Code
Nuisances may be addressed as a public health nuisance under authority provides by the
statute known as Health and Vital Statistics (N.J.S.A. 26:3-45 et seq.), which is enforced
by the local health agency, or under the Code of Criminal Justice as a disorderly persons
offense (N.J.S.A. 2C: 33-12), which is enforced by the local police. Anything injurious to
public health may be considered a nuisance, and in the case of noise, this means sounds
that are “unreasonably or unnecessarily loud.” A nuisance code cannot establish
measurable noise standards, since such standards are governed by the Noise Control Act
and thus, trigger a review by NJDEP.

If there are any questions about whether a municipality should adopt a noise ordinance or
nuisance code, please contact NJDEP’s Office of Local Environmental Management at
(609) 292-1305.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Even if they show up and shoot the neighbor, what does it profit a man to gain a quiet apartment but lose a quiet conscience?

The general principle, though, to me, is if they aren't reasonable enough not to be making anti-social levels of noise in the first place, why would one expect them to react reasonably to being asked to keep it down?

I sometimes listen to music a bit on the loud side.
I think most people sometimes do this.

If my neighbor knocked on the door and said "hey, thats too loud, turn it down" i would turn it down and ask if its ok, or if i need to turn it down more.

 

[pmv]

I sometimes listen to music a bit on the loud side.
I think most people sometimes do this.

If my neighbor knocked on the door and said "hey, thats too loud, turn it down" i would turn it down and ask if its ok, or if i need to turn it down more.

That's because you are a reasonable type. I'm just saying people underestimate just how many unreasonable people there are out there. In any case, I doubt you, being reasonable, would listen to music on the loud side in the middle of a weekday night. When people make unreasonable levels of noise at unreasonable times, that's probably a sign that they are not reasonable people.

The ironic thing is, I once had a TV that had a broken volume control (that meant you couldn't turn the volume down below a certain, loud, level). I used to try and watch it while pressing a telephone directory over the speaker, to muffle it. When that directory fell off, as it sometimes did, the volume became excessive. My neighbour at the time didn't ask me to turn it down, they just took to posting anonymous obscenity-laden death-threats through my door, leaving me to figure out what the issue was (I'm still not entirely sure, though my best guess is it was that over-loud TV they were upset about - I got rid of it, and in fact haven't had a TV at all since).

I used to be of the opinion that it's a function of how wealthy you are, as housing is heavily segregated on the basis of house-prices and hence wealth. The less well off end up having to live next door to the seriously-troubled/mentally-unwell or criminal classes (not to mention going to the same schools as them) while the affluent get to live in the 'nice' areas where people behave well (or at least save their anti-social behaviour for their professional life, as bankers and politicians and the like).

But then one day I ran into a guy who, though working as a gardener, had inherited a big house in a posh area, and had startlingly similar problems to me. His neighbour was a senior member of the judiciary, who, notwithstanding his very-high-social-status, was prone to having incredibly noisy parties at all hours of the day and night, with open drug use and sexual activity.

It actually seems as if you get very similar anti-social behaviour at the top and bottom end of the social-scale. And while the rich can afford larger homes with more sound-proof walls, their anti-social neighbours compensate by buying louder sound systems and having bigger parties.

 

[pmv]

The ultra-wealthy and the criminal underclass do seem to have a great deal in common. That's probably why the two groups often seem to admire and attempt to imitate the other.