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Can God (if there is one) make something so.......

P

phr0m

Senior member
If there is a God and he (better yet it) has all this unlimted power (because after all he created everything) could it make a mountian so heavy that God couldnt even move it?

Another question:
Could time be consider God? Because everything revolves around time. Time is the basis of everything and effects everything. Anything can happen over time. Is time God?
 
if he made a mountain with infinite mass in a space where gravity doesn't exist.. then even i could lift it.

time is a property.. not an entity. so.. no, time can not be considered God.
 
only the living can know the ammount of time you have been dead. if there is a creator, a single creator, then this means that the creator was not created and therfore not made of matter, and time only effects matter.
 
As a slightly more 'serious' answer (at least to your first question; the second is badly phrased and hard to understand):

"God" is generally defined as something with the property of omnipotence -- that is, the ability to do anything. Such a being would not be bound by the normal rules of logic (since, if it were, that would create situations like this where there were things it couldn't do, thus invalidating the property of omnipotence). Thus, an omnipotent being could indeed create an object so massive heavy it could not move/lift the object -- but, paradoxically, it would also be able to move/lift the object at the same time, since it is omnipotent. Such are the situations you run into when logic no longer applies and a statement can be both true and false simultaneously.

That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.
 
God would be part of the rock as much as he is any existence outside of the rock, the idea of God causing any verb to occur to any noun is only a function of God acting on what he empowers to exist.
 
Originally posted by: phr0m
If there is a God and he (better yet it) has all this unlimted power (because after all he created everything) could it make a mountian so heavy that God couldnt even move it?

Another question:
Could time be consider God? Because everything revolves around time. Time is the basis of everything and effects everything. Anything can happen over time. Is time God?
Click to expand...

Your first statemet has been covered by a Simpsons episode (series 13: Weekend at Burns) "Could Jesus Microwave a buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it"
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
As a slightly more 'serious' answer (at least to your first question; the second is badly phrased and hard to understand):

"God" is generally defined as something with the property of omnipotence -- that is, the ability to do anything. Such a being would not be bound by the normal rules of logic (since, if it were, that would create situations like this where there were things it couldn't do, thus invalidating the property of omnipotence). Thus, an omnipotent being could indeed create an object so massive heavy it could not move/lift the object -- but, paradoxically, it would also be able to move/lift the object at the same time, since it is omnipotent. Such are the situations you run into when logic no longer applies and a statement can be both true and false simultaneously.

That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. The problem comes when one tries to constrain a divine being by the laws of logic. When you take a step back from logic, the answer is pretty simple.

God is omnipotent, meaning God can do anything, thus:

Can God create a mountain so heavy he cannot lift it? YES
Can God lift said mountain? YES
 
this question is often asked by people who dont understand the power of God. you cant relate his power to tangible things or regular logic. he is all powerful, all knowing, and above reason and logic.

this question is also proposed by people out to disprove God or argue against his power. im not saying you are either way, just that it is commonly used in that manner.

this is also how Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. He did things that ONLY men do and also things that ONLY God does. it isnt for us to completely understand because we just cant. we are just like mice, frogs, turkeys, etc. we have a cap on our logic and reasoning skills, and unfortunately it is too low to allow us to think on that level.
 
Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
this question is often asked by people who dont understand the power of God.
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in other words, everyone on the planet?

If God could create a mountain so massive God could not move it, then God could will that God become powerful enough to move it. But in order to create the massive mountain so huge that God couldn't move it, God would have to will God not to be able to move it. So God could create a mountain so massive God could not move it but then would be able to move it whenever God wanted.
 
When you say god can do anything, you really mean that he can do anything logically possible. For example, God cannot find the corner of a circle, or other things that logically don't make sense. Hense the question in it's many forms "Can god create an X so Y that even he can't Z. Doesn't make any sense because it doesn't logically make sense.
 
this is also how Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. He did things that ONLY men do and also things that ONLY God does. it isnt for us to completely understand because we just cant. we are just like mice, frogs, turkeys, etc. we have a cap on our logic and reasoning skills
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Or perhaps its that we actually have reasoning skills...religions have been trying to put the kibosh on those for just about ever, what with the fact that those skills make said religions look silly.
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.
Click to expand...

Excellent, yet another totally useless example of philosophy!

On a more useful note though: God doesn't, (and I'm pretty sure about this next bit) and will never exist, so why bother debate?
 
Originally posted by: MetalStorm
Originally posted by: Matthias99
That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.
Click to expand...

Excellent, yet another totally useless example of philosophy!

On a more useful note though: God doesn't, (and I'm pretty sure about this next bit) and will never exist, so why bother debate?
Click to expand...

you have got to be kidding me. that is such an arrogant/idiotic statement. who are you to say he does or doesnt exist? prove it.
 
Originally posted by: Gilby
this is also how Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. He did things that ONLY men do and also things that ONLY God does. it isnt for us to completely understand because we just cant. we are just like mice, frogs, turkeys, etc. we have a cap on our logic and reasoning skills
Click to expand...

Or perhaps its that we actually have reasoning skills...religions have been trying to put the kibosh on those for just about ever, what with the fact that those skills make said religions look silly.
Click to expand...

if you deny the fact that our reasoning skills have limitations you are simply ignorant to facts. we are just like any other organism. we have limits to what we can understand.
 
Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
Originally posted by: MetalStorm
Originally posted by: Matthias99
That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.
Click to expand...

Excellent, yet another totally useless example of philosophy!

On a more useful note though: God doesn't, (and I'm pretty sure about this next bit) and will never exist, so why bother debate?
Click to expand...

you have got to be kidding me. that is such an arrogant/idiotic statement. who are you to say he does or doesnt exist? prove it.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I have a better idea, how about you first prove he exists. Once you've done that, I will be more than happy to try to disprove it, otherwise you can sit down and shut up.

To give you a little insight in to why I said what I did though, let me go back to a paradox called the "chicken and the egg" I'm pretty sure you all know what that is, so I'll show you how it applies here. If "god" does exist, where did he come from? I'll let you mull that one over for a minute, then you can consider the real reasons why people thousands of years ago, and I stress, much less advanced than we are today, came up with the whole "god" idea.
 
Hmm, I have a better idea, how about you first prove he exists. Once you've done that, I will be more than happy to try to disprove it, otherwise you can sit down and shut up.
Click to expand...

Well, granted, you did posit first that God doesn't exist, which -- to be fair -- you have no proof for, either.

To give you a little insight in to why I said what I did though, let me go back to a paradox called the "chicken and the egg" I'm pretty sure you all know what that is, so I'll show you how it applies here. If "god" does exist, where did he come from? I'll let you mull that one over for a minute, then you can consider the real reasons why people thousands of years ago, and I stress, much less advanced than we are today, came up with the whole "god" idea.
Click to expand...

Well, I've got one for you -- how about the Watchmaker's Paradox? You're walking down the street and find a pocket watch. This is an extremely complex, interrelated system. It must have been designed by an intelligent being -- how else could it have come to exist?

We live in an extremely complex, interrelated universe, and even here in our one infinitesmal corner of it is an enormous variety of incredibly complex, well-designed organisms, each far more complex than a pocketwatch. Doesn't this imply the existince of an intelligent creator at some level?

Note: this is getting way OT from the original question, and this is probably not the right thread to be having a discussion like this in.
 
Originally posted by: MetalStorm
Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
Originally posted by: MetalStorm
Originally posted by: Matthias99
That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.
Click to expand...

Excellent, yet another totally useless example of philosophy!

On a more useful note though: God doesn't, (and I'm pretty sure about this next bit) and will never exist, so why bother debate?
Click to expand...

you have got to be kidding me. that is such an arrogant/idiotic statement. who are you to say he does or doesnt exist? prove it.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I have a better idea, how about you first prove he exists. Once you've done that, I will be more than happy to try to disprove it, otherwise you can sit down and shut up.
Click to expand...

lack of evidence of god, is not evidence there is no god. otherwise neither you, nor i, nor anyone can actually *prove* or *disprove* any type of god. the argument is, at best, an interesting waste of time, and at worst.....an uninteresting waste of time.

Originally posted by: blahblah99
Enough with this crap in this forum already.
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i agree, there's enough of this garbage in off-topic.
 
Originally posted by: MetalStorm

Hmm, I have a better idea, how about you first prove he exists. Once you've done that, I will be more than happy to try to disprove it, otherwise you can sit down and shut up.
Click to expand...

:roll: good one. really.
 
Originally posted by: xSauronx


lack of evidence of god, is not evidence there is no god. otherwise neither you, nor i, nor anyone can actually *prove* or *disprove* any type of god. the argument is, at best, an interesting waste of time, and at worst.....an uninteresting waste of time.
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Precisely. Lets all be agnostics and be done with this 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Well, granted, you did posit first that God doesn't exist, which -- to be fair -- you have no proof for, either.
Click to expand...

Well, I've got one for you -- how about the Watchmaker's Paradox? You're walking down the street and find a pocket watch. This is an extremely complex, interrelated system. It must have been designed by an intelligent being -- how else could it have come to exist?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

To be honest, the only thing that could possibly need a god is the creation of the universe, however, it's just short sighted and lazy to say that a god is what caused that event to happen not only from the point of view of what created the god, but in respect to science it's self, because we don't have the answer right now doesn't mean we have to try and console ourselves with the ridiculous concept.

I'm not going to discuss the origins of the universe as there are people who know far more about it than I or you ever will, but in time I'm sure there will be an explanation, and that explanation will have a proof.

What really annoys me though is this: Don't you think that for some people to believe so whole heartedly in such an object they'd require some sort of definitive proof that it exists? It's beyond me why people would be willing to believe in a figment of someone's imagination made thousands of years ago just to make them feel better!
 
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