Can E15 Gasoline Really Damage Your Engine

[BUTCH1]

Interesting story from PM, our local news did some random testing of gas and found some were between 10-13% already, mechanics saying it greatly reduces upper cylinder lubrication among other problems. I sure as hell hope the E-15 proposal gets turned down..http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/e15-gasoline-damage-engine

 

[LTC8K6]

I thought it was already passed.

 

[BUTCH1]

I thought it was already passed.

It has, but has to be labeled for certain vehicles only, really what they want is to force E15 to all grades eventually and that's gonna suck..

 

[Bartman39]

I thought it was already passed.

I thought so too...? With that much Ethanol in the gas it is sure to develop water in the tank which is bad news for everything in the fuel system besides cylinder issues...

Also with the 15ppm ultra low sulfer diesel there is almost no lube properties in it either which is why we see so many injector issues with late model diesels with high pressure rail systems which all have now... (most add 2 stroke oil or other additives to help)


Damned either way (gas or diesel)...

 

[LTC8K6]

E15 will also affect mileage enough for most people to notice it.

 

[BUTCH1]

I guess it's gonna cost gas stations a huge pile of $$ to make sure their pumps, tanks, ect, can handle it.

 

[HarryLui]

Interesting story from PM, our local news did some random testing of gas and found some were between 10-13% already, mechanics saying it greatly reduces upper cylinder lubrication among other problems.

How exactly does gasoline lubrication upper cylinder?

 

[Jumpem]

I wish they would stop adding ethanol.

 

[BUTCH1]

How exactly does gasoline lubrication upper cylinder?

I would guess that since it's refined from crude oil the residuals left from combustion but I'm just quoting a mechanic that was on TV explaining the issues..

 

[BUTCH1]

I wish they would stop adding ethanol.

X2, corn prices have been high since all that shit started and with the energy required to harvest and produce the ethanol the net energy savings are none..

 

[Bartman39]

How exactly does gasoline lubrication upper cylinder?

Gasoline is oil based to start with... But a bit of history the old leaded gas we used to get was rich in lead which served as a lubricant for both valves and cylinder walls... Then came unleaded gas which they had to change valves and seats because they were the first affected by the change... But it was also found it was very dry which meant it would allow the piston rings to wear rather quickly as well... So just as with the valves changes in material and method of design was changed to help with this problem... Now with Methanol being introduced the fuel is getting even dryer and as I said water will factor into this as well which does not lube much in an engine... Back to the basics gasoline is an oil plain and simple and with the newer additives of unleaded gas engines for now will run on it but its sure alot tougher on them and will only get worse...

About the same for diesels but their higher compression just compounds the problem...

A side note... AVgas or aviation fuel is known as LL100 the LL part means low lead but dont let that fool you... It contains over 4X the lead of our old leaded fuel this is for the super dry nature of the AVgas and lubes the engines cylinders while at high altitudes otherwise then engine would lockup due to cylinder scuff (no lube)... Also its designed to burn slow and make plenty of BTU`s with little oxygen so power is maintained even at high altitudes...

 

[thescreensavers]

This is the reason people at BITOG use 2 stroke oil and MMO mixed into the fuel.

I been thinking about it but I dont know.

 

[EightySix Four]

This is the reason people at BITOG use 2 stroke oil and MMO mixed into the fuel.

I been thinking about it but I dont know.

Wait what? I've never heard of this...

 

[Vic Vega]

Where I live it's all but impossible to buy straight gas anymore, it's all 10%.

 

[Vic Vega]

http://pure-gas.org/

 

[marvdmartian]

I guess it's gonna cost gas stations a huge pile of $$ to make sure their pumps, tanks, ect, can handle it.

I can tell you that a few years back, the Department of Defense (DoD) mandated the use of alternative fuels on military bases, which currently means that they have to have bio-diesel (B-20) and E85 available, and vehicles which are certified for using those products will do so, versus the dino-fuels.

Everything that touches E85 has to be certified for it, as the normal (cast aluminum) components will simply be eaten up by the high ethanol content of that fuel. Generally, what the manufacturers of these components have done is to plate any aluminum surface that will come in contact with the E85, with nickel.

The dispenser manufacturers, that I've seen, have kept their prices for E85 compatible dispensers the same as for their other models. The hoses generally come with steel ends (not affected), but the swivels, break-aways and nozzles are all aluminum construction, and the cost of plating them with nickel increases the prices by ~10-20 percent.

Storage tanks, generally being coated steel or fiberglass construction, aren't affected by the ethanol.


Oh, and the reason for the use of bio-fuels by DoD? Why, to toe the party line, and decrease our military's dependency on foreign oil, of course! Never mind that when we go to war, we're not going to bring along our alternate fuels. Add to that, the fact that E85 generally gives you ~2/3 the gas mileage you get with gasoline, so you use half again as much......and, generally speaking, most of the bases have problems with bio-diesel gelling up in the winter months. But hey, we're helping the environment, right?

 

[thescreensavers]

Wait what? I've never heard of this...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=37&page=1

its in that subsection, sort by replies, TCW3 or w/e and MMO threads which have high post count talk about these things in the fuel to lube the fuel pump and shit.

 

[Eli]

The reason for the reduced upper cylinder lubrication isn't because gasoline has lubricating properties, it's because the oil gets washed off the cylinder walls by the alcohol.

Interesting stuff.

I have to admit though - yes, it sucks for current and especially past automobiles, but alcohol can be a good fuel - automakers just need to take advantage of it.

I suspect this will all work itself out eventually. I just recently switched back to 10% ethanol after not being able to detect an increase in MPG from using 100% gasoline. But maybe I'll go back to 100% gasoline just to support the idea, even though it's like 40 cents more per gallon..

Also, I've been using Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant in my cars lately. I figure it can't hurt.

 

[EightySix Four]

For me, more ethanol = more boost and less fuel economy

 

[Throckmorton]

Don't worry about the new 15% ethanol gasoline formulations. You aren't supposed to drive old cars. You're supposed to send them to the crusher and drive a "ZipCar", because owning things, knowing how to do things, and having hobbies that don't involve GoreTex™ is Anti-Social Behavior.

 

[sdifox]

anyone seen any analysis of the ethanol production cost? I really hate this corn industry bullshit.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i'm afraid E15 will destroy both my car and motorcycle - and they are 2010 and 2009 models, respectively. bother owner's manuals say that anything above E10 will damage the engines.

wtf is the EPA thinking?

 

[Zivic]

i'm afraid E15 will destroy both my car and motorcycle - and they are 2010 and 2009 models, respectively. bother owner's manuals say that anything above E10 will damage the engines.

wtf is the EPA thinking?

honestly doubt it will destroy your car.

I own a car setup for gas and have been running E85 in it for almost 3 yrs now without issue. sure I changed injectors and upgraded the fuel pump and tuned it, but the car was never designed for ethanol.

I don't think it is right they are bumping to E15, but I think the majority of people would never know unless they were told or watch their mileage closely

 

[Zivic]

For me, more ethanol = more boost and less fuel economy

this right there !

 

[desy]

It really only affects old equipment of which I have a 30 yr old motorcycle and boat which I make sure to drain in the off seasons. I don't worry about it in my newer cars AT ALL, AT ALL, AT ALL!