Can bigger mufflers really add more than 10 ponies?

psteng19

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2000
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With just the exhaust, probably not.

With a full cat-back exhaust system, and headers, possibly 12 to the wheels...

... and with an intake
 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
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With a full cat-back exhaust system, and headers, possibly 12 to the wheels...
Maybe 12 to the crank. Don't expect to get much more than 5-7 dyno proven wheel-ponies unless you've done some serious work to the engine itself. (i.e. high-lift cams, monsterous air/fuel intake re-working, a nicely done T3/T4 hybrid turbo :) ) But you have to start somewhere, so if you plan an moderately/heavily modding your car, go for it. Otherwise don't waste your money.
 

Electric Amish

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Originally posted by: psteng19
With just the exhaust, probably not.

With a full cat-back exhaust system, and headers, possibly 12 to the wheels...

... and with an intake

Don't forget the stickers.

amish
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81
At most, 2-3, especially on a *economy* car.

While it may get rid of the stock reverse-flow muffler, you won't have much to pump out the end anyway.
 

hoihtah

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2001
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it's all about efficiency and eliminating the bottleneck.

mufflers increase drag (reducing HP) to muffle the sound.
but it also creates a back pressure which is needed for the tuned engines to perform better.

so you give and take.
between the loss and the gain, you need to measure which is greater... and eliminate the bottleneck that way.

but to say that mufflers will add HP... flat out,
that's greatly misleading.

with that logic, no muffler is the best muffler.
but we know for fact that this is not the case.

you need to tune/match your engine to your muffler for the best result.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,131
616
126
If you get a system properly designed for your application, then it will add something. Whether you'll actually notice what it adds (besides noise) is another issue. I bought a cat-back system for my car cause it was about the same price as gettin the muffler replaced. It looks better, sounds better, and if it gives me any power its a bonus. Now if I went and bought that header....

Nah, where's that turbo? :D:p
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
It depends on the car. Change out a component like that on a 1000 HP supercar and you'll see 20 hp. Do it on a camry and not a chance in hell.
 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
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Nah, where's that turbo?
Boosthead? Yea, forget all this bolt on crap and just get a Turbo ;) (Make sure its a T3-T4 hybrid, lest you be the lucky bastard who drives a Supra TT)
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,131
616
126
Originally posted by: dtyn
Nah, where's that turbo?
Boosthead? Yea, forget all this bolt on crap and just get a Turbo ;) (Make sure its a T3-T4 hybrid, lest you be the lucky bastard who drives a Supra TT)

No fear. Its gonna be on a Prelude motor in my Accord. The guy who's gonna do it is currently finishing up his sub 10 sec rear-engine, RWD CRX. Oh the joys of having friends!:D:p;):)
 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
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Its gonna be on a Prelude motor in my Accord
*Drool*...if you're talkin the H22...mother help me. Those things have tons of potential (especially turbo'd :)) I was gonna do a sick H22 swap into my Si, but I decided that the stock engine had potential if I rebuilt it.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
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cat-back and intake on a v6 accord gets about 12 or 13 more according to some dyno chart in a mag i saw not too long ago. AEM intake, don't remember which exhaust system.
 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
2,841
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cat-back and intake on a v6 accord gets about 12 or 13 more according to some dyno chart in a mag i saw not too long ago. AEM intake, don't remember which exhaust system.
You can't trust dyno's lest they give you all the information. Could have been a dyno with no chassis, in which case its giving you crank power not wheel power.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,131
616
126
Originally posted by: dtyn
Its gonna be on a Prelude motor in my Accord
*Drool*...if you're talkin the H22...mother help me. Those things have tons of potential (especially turbo'd :)) I was gonna do a sick H22 swap into my Si, but I decided that the stock engine had potential if I rebuilt it.

That is indeed the plan:D

And for all the rice haters, my car is/will be completely stock on the outside except for rims and having been slightly lowered.
 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
2,841
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And for all the rice haters, my car is/will be completely stock on the outside except for rims and having been slightly lowered.
Screw that, you have a car that fast, I would rice it up, then when all the muscle-cars come up to you thinking you're an easy kill, blow them away and make them live with the fact that they got killed by rice ;). Nah, you're right keep it a sleeper.
 

gregshin

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2000
3,273
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0
You gotta have the right engine mods and the piping for your exhaust SYSTEM to get more ponies. Its possible to get more then 10HP by adding a full exhaust pending on engine work.
 

Talyn

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2002
4
0
0
I've got a Dodge Spirit I've thought of ricing out a bit, any suggestions?

BTW, J/K

:)
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: hoihtah
it's all about efficiency and eliminating the bottleneck.

mufflers increase drag (reducing HP) to muffle the sound.
but it also creates a back pressure which is needed for the tuned engines to perform better.

so you give and take.
between the loss and the gain, you need to measure which is greater... and eliminate the bottleneck that way.

but to say that mufflers will add HP... flat out,
that's greatly misleading.

with that logic, no muffler is the best muffler.
but we know for fact that this is not the case.

you need to tune/match your engine to your muffler for the best result.

Umm... Wouldn't no muffler be the best?

Any restriction in the exhaust flow is going to decrease power... straight headers should be the best for any 4-cycle engine, as far as that goes. No?

We're not talking about 2-cycle engines here. What is there to tune in a 4-cycle exhaust system? :confused:
 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
2,841
0
0
Umm... Wouldn't no muffler be the best muffler?
Hell no...no muffler means no backpressure, meaning no low-end torque, meaning what little econo-mobiles have disappears, meaning it takes forever to reach your powerban, meaning really slow, geo metro-type car. Less restrictive is good, full flow is bad.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
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Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: hoihtah
it's all about efficiency and eliminating the bottleneck.

mufflers increase drag (reducing HP) to muffle the sound.
but it also creates a back pressure which is needed for the tuned engines to perform better.

so you give and take.
between the loss and the gain, you need to measure which is greater... and eliminate the bottleneck that way.

but to say that mufflers will add HP... flat out,
that's greatly misleading.

with that logic, no muffler is the best muffler.
but we know for fact that this is not the case.

you need to tune/match your engine to your muffler for the best result.

Umm... Wouldn't no muffler be the best?

Any restriction in the exhaust flow is going to decrease power... straight headers should be the best for any 4-cycle engine, as far as that goes. No?

We're not talking about 2-cycle engines here. What is there to tune in a 4-cycle exhaust system? :confused:
tuned works well for 2 cycle, but i think you're right, for 4 cycle running none is best. dragsters don't have much in the way of exhaust systems, and really thats just to route the flame and hot exhaust from the tires.

 

Gyrene

Banned
Jun 6, 2002
2,841
0
0
dragsters don't have much in the way of exhaust systems
Dragsters also idle where you redline, meaning they don't need low-end torque. Totally different than a street-legal car.
 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
Originally posted by: psteng19
With just the exhaust, probably not.

With a full cat-back exhaust system, and headers, possibly 12 to the wheels...

... and with an intake

exactly, no muffler will add that much.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: dtyn
Umm... Wouldn't no muffler be the best muffler?
Hell no...no muffler means no backpressure, meaning no low-end torque, meaning what little econo-mobiles have disappears, meaning it takes forever to reach your powerban, meaning really slow, geo metro-type car. Less restrictive is good, full flow is bad.

Umm... Why would backing the exhaust system up create low-end torque? :confused:

People... the better an engine can "breathe", the more power it delivers. That's the principal behind a two cycle engines tuned exhaust pipe. It uses sound waves to effectivly supercharge the combustion chamber.

I still say that straight headers would be the best, for any 4-cycle engine. Can someone give me some links? lol..

It doesen't make any sense. That's why they put 4 valves in the combustion chamber. That's why they make less restrictive intake systems. That's why they make less restrictive exhaust systems.

If your engine is breathing in more than it can expell, you will lose power.. period.