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Can anyone really claim gender bias in the workplace anymore?

SSSnail

SSSnail

Lifer
Really. (If you're reading this from the middle east, your views might differ, I'm taking about the US)

I was having a conversation with someone and this topic came up. My position is that in today's society, women have as much opportunities for advancement and pay as men do. The differences in pay would be a direct result of qualifications, whether relevant degrees or experience are factored in.

I've never seen an ad where the listing states that women would be paid less than men for the same job, with the same quals. "Um Betty, we're going to have to pay you $40k less than what we listed in the ad because you know, you're a girl and all"...

Come at me, bros.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
That's not the way gender bias works. Or, rather, that's only one specific type of bias that is legally actionable.
Click to expand...
So how does it work, exactly? We're talking about pays and advancement.

The company I work art, there are plenty of male and female executives, to the point where I don't see a difference anymore. Maybe because I don't pay attending to their genders, but it's not all he-men-women-haters club here.
 
The most common form of gender bias is not getting hired in the first place or, fewer promotions. These days, fewer promotions are harder to prove because corporations tend to hire for specific jobs and 'restructure' departments when the job changes.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
I would suggest you start looking at technology companies and IT.
Click to expand...

You're right, there is gender bias. It's self selected though. The women I know in tech who are go-getters do just as well if not better than most men.

On the flip side, there's a woman who works for me who I've been trying to encourage her to apply for a new senior applications position that I'm creating in my department, it would be a good promotion from her current applications position. She doesn't want the added responsibility. She's worried it will affect her ability to go home and night and spend time with her kids. So chances are it will go to a man instead.

Oh yeah, and one of the best women in tech I've ever known left her career to stay home and have babies instead.

Sorry, but biology apparently still wins despite the feminuts insistence that men are keeping women down, rather than women themselves.
 
Candidate A applies for Job. Offer of 100K is made. Candidate asks for 115K. Employer agrees and Candidate A gets job

Candidate B applies for Job. Offer of 100K is made. Candidate B takes job.

Candidate A discusses salary with Candidate B.
Candidate B assumes Candidate A received more money because of gender.


Employee C and Employee D both work at company for 5 years. Both have same role. They make identical salary
Employees D takes time off after birth of child.
Employee C takes on additional workload to cover Employees D's absence.
Later that year Employee C leverages this to negotiate a higher pay raise, having also used this experience for career growth. Employee D returns and continues on career track. they eventually find that Employee C is now making more money.

Employee F knows football.
Employee G doesn't follow sports.
Employee F is more popular around the office because they can always talk sports.
Employee F career takes off due to exposure.
 
I'm pretty sure that people who get discriminated against at work based on gender can still claim gender bias in the workplace. So the answer is "yes."
 
pauldun170 said:
Candidate A applies for Job. Offer of 100K is made. Candidate asks for 115K. Employer agrees and Candidate A gets job

Candidate B applies for Job. Offer of 100K is made. Candidate B takes job.

Candidate A discusses salary with Candidate B.
Candidate B assumes Candidate A received more money because of gender.


Employee C and Employee D both work at company for 5 years. Both have same role. They make identical salary
Employees D takes time off after birth of child.
Employee C takes on additional workload to cover Employees D's absence.
Later that year Employee C leverages this to negotiate a higher pay raise, having also used this experience for career growth. Employee D returns and continues on career track. they eventually find that Employee C is now making more money.

Employee F knows football.
Employee G doesn't follow sports.
Employee F is more popular around the office because they can always talk sports.
Employee F career takes off due to exposure.
Click to expand...

Candidates A, C and, F are used car salesmen.
 
SSSnail said:
I was having a conversation with someone and this topic came up. My position is that in today's society, women have as much opportunities for advancement and pay as men do. The differences in pay would be a direct result of qualifications, whether relevant degrees or experience are factored in.

I've never seen an ad where the listing states that women would be paid less than men for the same job, with the same quals. "Um Betty, we're going to have to pay you $40k less than what we listed in the ad because you know, you're a girl and all"...

Come at me, bros.
Click to expand...
You sound like a very naive individual who lacks alot of life experience.

Life is full of unwritten rules and this is a very complex subject and there are numerous reasons as to why women get paid less on average than men for the same job. Some are justified, and some are not, and others are debatable.
 
pauldun170 said:
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap
http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/tech-salaries-glassdoor-diversity-hiring-survey/


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/u...e-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0
Click to expand...

To compare male and female pay on a level playing field, we found the median pay for all men in a given job, as well as breakdowns of important compensable factors such as years of experience, location, education level, etc.
Click to expand...
\
The problem is these studies can only show whether or not gender bias is widespread NOT, whether it exists and or is particularly egregious in specific industries or employers.
 
Women and minorities do still face some bias. Hopefully it's much reduced from the days of yore, but it still exists.

Example: Women can get pregnant, and in this country maternal leave is for up to a full year. The additional cost/effort of having to temporarily replace a female employee who goes on mat leave isn't insubstantial. Inevitably, then, employers do often quietly factor that into whether to hire a woman (and whether to promote them).
 
Not particularly, maybe a little. If women really made that much less in the US companies would be hiring them because hey, same job less money, right?
 
Blanky said:
Not particularly, maybe a little. If women really made that much less in the US companies would be hiring them because hey, same job less money, right?
Click to expand...

Do-nothing mid-level managers make 6-figure salaries in companies all around the US, while productive (and experienced) drones are fired so that they can be replaced with cheaper meat. The corporate world is far from the free-market paradise that economists make it out to be.
 
jagec said:
Do-nothing mid-level managers make 6-figure salaries in companies all around the US, while productive (and experienced) drones are fired so that they can be replaced with cheaper meat. The corporate world is far from the free-market paradise that economists make it out to be.
Click to expand...
I know what you say is true out of personal experience (I am not the manager in question) and so I will have to concede the point.
 
Blanky said:
Not particularly, maybe a little. If women really made that much less in the US companies would be hiring them because hey, same job less money, right?
Click to expand...

Except that they make less because of preconceptions that they don't provide the same level of work, so in the companies' view they would be getting less work. That's kinda the whole point is that there's a bias that women just simply cannot do the job tasks as well as a man.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
Except that they make less because of preconceptions that they don't provide the same level of work, so in the companies' view they would be getting less work. That's kinda the whole point is that there's a bias that women just simply cannot do the job tasks as well as a man.
Click to expand...
Well ragging about it and chatting all day about gluten and vampire diaries isn't helping, geeze!
 
88keys said:
You sound like a very naive individual who lacks alot of life experience.

Life is full of unwritten rules and this is a very complex subject and there are numerous reasons as to why women get paid less on average than men for the same job. Some are justified, and some are not, and others are debatable.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to bother with your first sentence.

Funny how there are written rules with severe punishments against these unwritten rules that you mentioned. I guess the companies that I worked for and am working at have never heard of these unwritten rules, because I swear, there are women everywhere and at every positions.
 
jagec said:
Do-nothing mid-level managers make 6-figure salaries in companies all around the US, while productive (and experienced) drones are fired so that they can be replaced with cheaper meat. The corporate world is far from the free-market paradise that economists make it out to be.
Click to expand...

You can always tell who's never been a manager. ^^^
 
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