Can AMD make an ultrabook chip?

[s44]

Something like A6 performance at 17 watts (the TDP for the CULV Sandy Bridge chips used in these things). Preferably A8 or better when Ivy Bridge raises the stakes next year.

So far all AMD has in that power budget is the netbook E-series, which is worse than mobile Sandy Bridge in every way. Can they just not hit this target even at a high price point?

I realize that the whole "ultrabook" thing is an Intel-funded project to stay relevant vs. ARM, but given the right chips there should be no reason the OEMs don't use the designs and knowledge they pick up for the official "ultrabook" models and offer AMD versions that tilt more to GPU than CPU. Even the IGP bump in Ivy Bridge still seems too small.

 

[s44]

Oops, wrong forum. Meant to put in CPUs. Mods, can you move?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Probably, but you'll have to wait for Trinity for that...

 

[trollolo]

how could you possibly fit so many cores in an ultrabook

 

[frostedflakes]

Of course they can. Whether it could match the performance of a 17W Ivy Bridge is an entirely different story, though. Especially with the new transistor improvements at 22nm for IB, it sounds like the process will offer very respectable clock speeds even with lower voltage and power consumption. There are already 17W ULV SB chips out that offer much better performance than AMD's 18W E series APUs. I doubt it will be much different with the 28nm E series refresh vs Ivy Bridge. Of course Intel's ULV chips also command a pretty hefty price premium, ultrabooks will be pretty expensive, $1k+. So AMD could probably carve out a nice market for lower performance but more affordable ultrabooks, in the $700-800 price range maybe.

 

[Phynaz]

Could AMD design it? Sure!

Could GF build it? Not at this time.

 

[exar333]

Something like A6 performance at 17 watts (the TDP for the CULV Sandy Bridge chips used in these things). Preferably A8 or better when Ivy Bridge raises the stakes next year.

So far all AMD has in that power budget is the netbook E-series, which is worse than mobile Sandy Bridge in every way. Can they just not hit this target even at a high price point?

I realize that the whole "ultrabook" thing is an Intel-funded project to stay relevant vs. ARM, but given the right chips there should be no reason the OEMs don't use the designs and knowledge they pick up for the official "ultrabook" models and offer AMD versions that tilt more to GPU than CPU. Even the IGP bump in Ivy Bridge still seems too small.

That's not right at all. The idea of the ultrabook is to have a powerful AND power efficient ultra-light laptop. ARM is not powerful and is not high-end. It's a great idea. Compare a iPad against a Macbook Air. Both are portable, but only one has a decent CPU and is really a full-fledged computer (minus the weak-sauce GPU). You can dock an ultrabook and have a machine that can do everything your office computer can. iPads are little toys in comparison.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That's not right at all. The idea of the ultrabook is to have a powerful AND power efficient ultra-light laptop. ARM is not powerful and is not high-end. It's a great idea. Compare a iPad against a Macbook Air. Both are portable, but only one has a decent CPU and is really a full-fledged computer (minus the weak-sauce GPU). You can dock an ultrabook and have a machine that can do everything your office computer can. iPads are little toys in comparison.

This. 1000x this.

It'll be interesting to see what the new Trinity APU will bring. There's supposed to be a new 17W model that gets higher CPU and GPU performance than the current Llano APUs. Considering that Bulldozer is made for high clock speeds and should have a bit higher IPC not to mention much better power consumption (though Llano for laptops is pretty good in that regard), then it should be true. I have a feeling we'll be like how we are now with Sandy Bridge vs Llano, though: much higher IGP performance, lower CPU performance.

 

[s44]

That's not right at all. The idea of the ultrabook is to have a powerful AND power efficient ultra-light laptop. ARM is not powerful and is not high-end. It's a great idea. Compare a iPad against a Macbook Air. Both are portable, but only one has a decent CPU and is really a full-fledged computer (minus the weak-sauce GPU). You can dock an ultrabook and have a machine that can do everything your office computer can. iPads are little toys in comparison.

You're right, but that means you're wrong.

Intel knows that ARM has eaten away the bottom end of the laptop market, and will continue to do so at ever-increasing speed with quad-core A9/A15, Windows 8, the increasing number of ARM devices with convertible keyboard designs (the Transformer 2 isn't going to be a toy), etc. So it's trying to leverage the advantage it does have -- real power, compatibility with real programs, even (well, this is where AMD comes in) games -- into a full, well-defined market segment that offers the features (light weight, all-day battery life, instant turn-on whenever you like) ARM devices have trained people to want and demand now. If the only product like that were the MBA with the usual Apple premium pricing, Intel would be in big trouble... and anyway, the rumor is that MBAs will go ARM sooner rather than later.

 

[hans007]

im pretty sure a llano A4 with the new cut down die could probably be made to work under 17W at say 2.0 ghz max.

granted it would have 2 athlon ii cores, and 160 shaders... but that would not be a god awful laptop (though much slower than whatever intel is selling)

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You're right, but that means you're wrong.

Intel knows that ARM has eaten away the bottom end of the laptop market, and will continue to do so at ever-increasing speed with quad-core A9/A15, Windows 8, the increasing number of ARM devices with convertible keyboard designs (the Transformer 2 isn't going to be a toy), etc. So it's trying to leverage the advantage it does have -- real power, compatibility with real programs, even (well, this is where AMD comes in) games -- into a full, well-defined market segment that offers the features (light weight, all-day battery life, instant turn-on whenever you like) ARM devices have trained people to want and demand now. If the only product like that were the MBA with the usual Apple premium pricing, Intel would be in big trouble... and anyway, the rumor is that MBAs will go ARM sooner rather than later.

Wrong, absolutely wrong. First, ARM has eaten nothing on the bottom-end of the laptop market. Second, being faster than a six-year-old Core Duo in only integer workloads while needing twice as many cores and assuming perfect scaling is nothing to brag about. Three, the convertible crap will have no significant impact on the market. It's a complement to normal laptops or ultra-portables; nothing else. ARM is still an absolute dog for anything than the lowest-end tasks, and Ivy Bridge with its tri-gate transistors and 22nm process node will mean Intel will lower its already low power consumption even more. There's not much need for battery lives higher than twelve hours or so.

There's no magical ARM elves. ARM on laptops will fail, and Intel is gonna do everything in their power to make that happen. It's meant for tablets and smartphones and other low-power, low-performance devices, and that's where it'll stay.

 

[PreferLinux]

Well, they can't be used in Ultrabooks as such, because it is an Intel trademark. Intel obviously wouldn't give them permission to use the trademark along with an AMD CPU.

 

[notty22]

PC sales data proves ARM processors have eaten in to traditional PC /cpu market.
It started making news when Best Buy released sales figures and adjusted predictions.
After this story broke over the tech sites, the BB CEO had to release a public statement to calm shareholders.

iPad 'Cannibalizing' Half of Laptop Sales at Best Buy

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

PC sales data proves ARM processors have eaten in to traditional PC /cpu market.
It started making news when Best Buy released sales figures and adjusted predictions.
After this story broke over the tech sites, the BB CEO had to release a public statement to calm shareholders.

iPad 'Cannibalizing' Half of Laptop Sales at Best Buy

Here's the problem: the iPad isn't a PC.

 

[notty22]

OK, so now you are playing word game semantics ? They have taken away PC laptop sales. And that is going to increase as the other poster, noted when Windows 8 is ported to them and more of these devices hit the market.
Can you say.
Amazon Fire

 

[Abwx]

Well, they can't be used in Ultrabooks as such, because it is an Intel trademark. Intel obviously wouldn't give them permission to use the trademark along with an AMD CPU.

Not at all since Intel would find itself juridically in jeopardy...
In courts , the name would be successfully branded generic
according to past judgements that benefited to ...Intel...

Psion registered the trademark NETBOOK in various territories, including European Union Community Trade Mark 000428250 and U.S. Trademark 75,215,401, which was applied for on 18 December 1996 and registered by USPTO on 21 November 2000. They used this trademark[7] for the Psion netBook product, discontinued in November 2003,[8] and from October 2003, the NETBOOK PRO, later also discontinued.[9]
Intel started using the term netbook in March 2008 as a generic term to describe "small laptops that are designed for wireless communication and access to the Internet", believing they were "not offering a branded line of computers here" and "see no naming conflict".[10]
In response to the growing use of the term, on 23 December 2008 Psion Teklogix sent cease and desist letters[11] to various parties including enthusiast website(s) demanding they no longer use the term "netbook".[12][13]
In early 2009 Intel sued Psion Teklogix (US & Canada) and Psion (UK) in the Federal Court, seeking a cancellation of the trademark and an order enjoining Psion from asserting any trademark rights in the term "netbook", a declarative judgement regarding their use of the term, attorneys' fees, costs and disbursements and "such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper".[14][15] The suit was settled out of court, and on June 2, 2009 Psion announced that the company was withdrawing all of its trademark registrations for the term "Netbook" and that Psion agreed to "waive all its rights against third parties in respect of past, current or future use" of the term.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

OK, so now you are playing word game semantics ? They have taken away PC laptop sales. And that is going to increase as the other poster, noted when Windows 8 is ported to them and more of these devices hit the market.
Can you say.
Amazon Fire

Doesn't matter. It's not a PC, nor will it replace PCs.

Amazon Fire, same. Great for lounging, great price. You still need a normal laptop or ultra-portable for any work, and the ARM convertibles won't cut it due to their horrible CPU performance.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

You still need a normal laptop or ultra-portable for any work

America is a society of consumers, not producers.

I think you're overestimating how many people actually use their gadgets for anything other than consumption of content. Tablets will likely never replace desktops with genuine, bonafide keyboards and office suites at work, but at home? The writing's on the wall, or rather, the pageviews on the articles posted on the main site.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

America is a society of consumers, not producers.

I think you're overestimating how many people actually use their gadgets for anything other than consumption of content. Tablets will likely never replace desktops with genuine, bonafide keyboards and office suites at work, but at home? The writing's on the wall, or rather, the pageviews on the articles posted on the main site.

Doing any typing that isn't one or two sentences is a PITA on a touchscreen device.

iPads and other tablets are on the market, but in general I've seen most people go for laptops instead if they have to choose between both. It could be different in continental US, though.

I foresee most people having cheap ultra-portables along with cheap tablets like the Amazon Fire given how much costs have gone down.

 

[badb0y]

My laptop is useless because of my iPad. 90% of the people are like me, they use their laptops to browse the internet or listen to music/watch videos and now the iPad can do that and be 1 pound.

It won't replace my desktop PC but it basically replaced my laptop.

 

[busydude]

It won't replace my desktop PC but it basically replaced my laptop.

In my case - an Andriod smartphone replaced my laptop. There is truly a rapid shift in the consumer industry.. where smartphones, tables and computers are being used for [almost]the same thing.

 

[AtenRa]

Two options to use,

Single module 2 core with 128 SPs 32nm Trinity could do the trick or 28nm dual/quad core brazos.

Both of them seams they will be available in Q1 2012.

 

[Fayd]

That's not right at all. The idea of the ultrabook is to have a powerful AND power efficient ultra-light laptop. ARM is not powerful and is not high-end. It's a great idea. Compare a iPad against a Macbook Air. Both are portable, but only one has a decent CPU and is really a full-fledged computer (minus the weak-sauce GPU). You can dock an ultrabook and have a machine that can do everything your office computer can. iPads are little toys in comparison.

i was kinda under the impression that arm was a heavily modular architecture that could be powerful and high end if you so chose as a chip designer...

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

i was kinda under the impression that arm was a heavily modular architecture that could be powerful and high end if you so chose as a chip designer...

Nope. Even Tegra 3, which will be released in some time from now, is slower than a six-year-old Core 2 Duo in integer. In floating point, ARM is horrendous: a single-core Atom is more than 200x faster.

 

[PreferLinux]

Not at all since Intel would find itself juridically in jeopardy...
In courts , the name would be successfully branded generic
according to past judgements that benefited to ...Intel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion

That is probably correct. But whether AMD and co would want to do anything or not is another story. Not that there is anything special about "Ultrabook" anyway.