Can a person escape their class?

[Demon-Xanth]

Yes, but it takes a lot of work and a bit of luck.

From what I hear, making the first $1M is hard, the second is much easier.

 

[edro]

Sparticus and Oprah did.

 

[Amused]

Luck has nothing to do with it. Why? Because there is no such thing as "luck." Opportunity is equal. Ability and advantages are not.

As for the OP; yes, of course. People move both ways between classes everyday in the US.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Amused
Luck has nothing to do with it. Why? Because there is no such thing as "luck." Opportunity is equal. Ability and advantages are not.

As for the OP; yes, of course. People move both ways between classes everyday in the US.

Sometimes an opporunity is luck. The trick is to know when the opportunity comes by and capitalize on it.

...so far, I have not been successful at that.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: Amused
Luck has nothing to do with it. Why? Because there is no such thing as "luck." Opportunity is equal. Ability and advantages are not.

As for the OP; yes, of course. People move both ways between classes everyday in the US.

Sometimes an opporunity is luck. The trick is to know when the opportunity comes by and capitalize on it.

...so far, I have not been successful at that.

Again, there is no such thing as "luck." Luck is nothing but superstition. You may as well believe in fairies and leprechauns.

 

[j00fek]

iiii

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: Amused
Luck has nothing to do with it. Why? Because there is no such thing as "luck." Opportunity is equal. Ability and advantages are not.

As for the OP; yes, of course. People move both ways between classes everyday in the US.

Sometimes an opporunity is luck. The trick is to know when the opportunity comes by and capitalize on it.

...so far, I have not been successful at that.

Again, there is no such thing as "luck." Luck is nothing but superstition. You may as well believe in fairies and leprechauns.

Yes, there is.

 

[dullard]

Usually you cannot escape your class completely. Yes, you can move up or down financially depending on your efforts. But socially, it is much more difficult. The combination of the two is quite rare. Read the Great Gatsby.

Originally posted by: Amused
Again, there is no such thing as "luck." Luck is nothing but superstition. You may as well believe in fairies and leprechauns.

All things happen for a reason, that is true. But many of those reasons are out of your control. If good things happen to you that are out of your control, we might as well call that luck.

Suppose I was walking down the street, and was spotted by a Hollywood producer who wanted me for a million dollar role. Did I do anything to create this situation? No, not really. You can keep on arguing all you want that it ALWAYS takes ability and hard work to make advantages and to take the opportunities. However, in a case like that, all the ability and all the hard work in the world could not have accomplished the blind luck that I unknowingly ran into that producer.

Luck is USUALLY the result of hard work paying off in ways you wouldn't expect. Not always.

 

[Amused]

Coincidence is not luck.

 

[AMDZen]

Definetely not, but I do think that the majority of people end up in the class they were born into.

It would take a lot of work for someone born poor to get to the rich class, but probably not as difficult for the same person to get into the middle class.

I think it would be a lot more difficult, adversely, for a rich person to become middle class - and even more difficult still for that person to become poor. It would take a lot of screwing up and drugs to go from rich to poor, but all of these scenerios do happen

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Amused
Coincidence is not luck.

By stating that it is all ability and advantages, you imply that we have complete control over our destiny. I'm disagreeing with your implications - not your words.

Coincidenses for all intents and purposes can and should be defined as luck. They are both factors beyond your control. In your destiny you have things you can control and things that you cannot. You will likely do quite well if you do the things you can control very well. You may do quite well if the things out of your control just happen to benefit you. That out-of-your-control good fortune can and should be called luck.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Amused
Coincidence is not luck.

By stating that it is all ability and advantages, you imply that we have complete control over our destiny. I'm disagreeing with your implications - not your words.

Coincidenses for all intents and purposes can and should be defined as luck. They are both factors beyond your control. In your destiny you have things you can control and things that you cannot. You will likely do quite well if you do the things you can control very well. You may do quite well if the things out of your control just happen to benefit you. That out-of-your-control good fortune can and should be called luck.

des·ti·ny (des't?-ne)
n., pl. -nies.
1. The inevitable or necessary fate to which a particular person or thing is destined; one's lot.
2. A predetermined course of events considered as something beyond human power or control: ?Marriage and hanging go by destiny? (Robert Burton).
3. The power or agency thought to predetermine events: Destiny brought them together.

There is no such thing as destiny, either.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Amused
There is no such thing as destiny, either.

Here: are you happy? It doesn't make your "no luck" argument correct, but I'll change one word that is meaningless to my argument and repost it.


By stating that it is all ability and advantages, you imply that we have complete control over our life's course. I'm disagreeing with your implications - not your words.

Coincidenses, for all intents and purposes, can and should be defined as luck. They are both factors beyond your control. In your life, you have things you can control and things that you cannot. You will likely do quite well if you do the things you can control very well. You may do quite well if the things out of your control just happen to benefit you. That out-of-your-control good fortune can and should be called luck.

 

[mugs]

Luck = factors outside your control. Factors outside your control DO contribute to your success or lack thereof.

Yes you can move up (or down) in social class. It's not that uncommon in this country, although social mobility is much higher among whites.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Amused
There is no such thing as destiny, either.

Here: are you happy? It doesn't make your "no luck" argument correct, but I'll change one word that is meaningless to my argument and repost it.


By stating that it is all ability and advantages, you imply that we have complete control over our life's course. I'm disagreeing with your implications - not your words.

Coincidenses, for all intents and purposes, can and should be defined as luck. They are both factors beyond your control. In your life, you have things you can control and things that you cannot. You will likely do quite well if you do the things you can control very well. You may do quite well if the things out of your control just happen to benefit you. That out-of-your-control good fortune can and should be called luck.

Luck suggests a predestination or predefined course set by a supernatural force.

Coincidence suggests no such thing.

 

[Vic]

The mystics are out in force again, telling us that something controls our fates and destinies, and that we can't fault or credit ourselves for anything in our lives. We're puppets on a string of degradation, run by they-don't-know (just not God, because they're atheists and don't believe in that crap ).

 

[vi edit]

If some guy making $25,000 a year walks in a gas station and buys a powerball ticket for the first time in his life and hits the 300 million jackpot, then what do you call that?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
If a person is born into middle class, are they destined to stay there? And does the same go for lower class, and upper classmen as well?

you can always aim down...

 

[gigapet]

yes its the american dream.

most do not though because they are content with mediocrity.

 

[zanieladie]

No.

 

[thereds]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
If some guy making $25,000 a year walks in a gas station and buys a powerball ticket for the first time in his life and hits the 300 million jackpot, then what do you call that?

A fluke

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Amused
Luck suggests a predestination or predefined course set by a supernatural force.

Why do you think that? 2 out of 3 definitions on dictionary.com state NOTHING about predestination or predefined courses.

 

[mb]

What are we living in the medieval times? Of course a person can "escape" their class... but only in if they want to.

 

[tfinch2]

I thought this was about walking out in the middle of a lecture or something.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
If a person is born into middle class, are they destined to stay there? And does the same go for lower class, and upper classmen as well?

No.

It is just harder to do so.

/thread