Came across some interesting new thinking is science of the existential questions we sometime deal with here

[CLite]

Most of the article is kind of misleading. The reason the wave functions collapse is because the particle is hit by the energy we send to detect it, whether it be a photon or whatever. Not because we are thinking about it in our minds.

However I must admit I found the following quote absolutely fascinating, I didn't know about this experiment.

In 1997 University of Geneva physicist Nicolas Gisin sent two entangled photons zooming along optical fibers until they were seven miles apart. One photon then hit a two-way mirror where it had a choice: either bounce off or go through. Detectors recorded what it randomly did. But whatever action it took, its entangled twin always performed the complementary action. The communication between the two happened at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light. It seems that quantum news travels instantaneously, limited by no external constraints?not even the speed of light. Since then, other researchers have duplicated and refined Gisin?s work. Today no one questions the immediate nature of this connectedness between bits of light or matter, or even entire clusters of atoms.

 

[darkhorror]

Originally posted by: CLite
Most of the article is kind of misleading. The reason the wave functions collapse is because the particle is hit by the energy we send to detect it, whether it be a photon or whatever. Not because we are thinking about it in our minds.

However I must admit I found the following quote absolutely fascinating, I didn't know about this experiment.

In 1997 University of Geneva physicist Nicolas Gisin sent two entangled photons zooming along optical fibers until they were seven miles apart. One photon then hit a two-way mirror where it had a choice: either bounce off or go through. Detectors recorded what it randomly did. But whatever action it took, its entangled twin always performed the complementary action. The communication between the two happened at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light. It seems that quantum news travels instantaneously, limited by no external constraints?not even the speed of light. Since then, other researchers have duplicated and refined Gisin?s work. Today no one questions the immediate nature of this connectedness between bits of light or matter, or even entire clusters of atoms.

That is just another part of the article implying something that is wrong. Such as transmitting information faster than the speed of light.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I didn't find anything particularly interesting or profound other than what seemed like advocacy of some type of subjectivism (life creates the universe). It struck me as something that was written by someone who wants to appear as though he is saying something deep and intellectual when what he is really saying amounts to gibberish. It's improper to derive a philosophy based on the inner workings of quantum mechanics and subatomic physics because you first need to have a philosophy in order to study it (you need a theory of knowledge first) and we live and exist in the macroscopic world.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
It is hard to get one's mind around this notion and all the ramifications of it.. The especially hard bit probably the easy bit for most folks...
How can one know that the state of being is wave with out somehow seeing it... then when you become aware of that state it ain't that state...

What exactly are the ramifications for all of this knowledge we're acquiring of subatomic physics outside of the study of quantum mechanics, subatomic physics, its applications to scientific research, and any innovations that might result? It's not going to change the fact that we still need food and water, at least not in the foreseeable future. It's not going to change man's nature and should have almost no bearing on our philosophies.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: CLite
Most of the article is kind of misleading. The reason the wave functions collapse is because the particle is hit by the energy we send to detect it, whether it be a photon or whatever. Not because we are thinking about it in our minds.

However I must admit I found the following quote absolutely fascinating, I didn't know about this experiment.

In 1997 University of Geneva physicist Nicolas Gisin sent two entangled photons zooming along optical fibers until they were seven miles apart. One photon then hit a two-way mirror where it had a choice: either bounce off or go through. Detectors recorded what it randomly did. But whatever action it took, its entangled twin always performed the complementary action. The communication between the two happened at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light. It seems that quantum news travels instantaneously, limited by no external constraints?not even the speed of light. Since then, other researchers have duplicated and refined Gisin?s work. Today no one questions the immediate nature of this connectedness between bits of light or matter, or even entire clusters of atoms.

Admittedly haven't read the article, but what's to say a photon could collapse the probability wave if it we were not around to notice the deflection of said photon. If we shot a photon at a probability wave to collapse it but did not take any measurements of the energy we used, would the probability wave collapse?

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: CLite
Most of the article is kind of misleading. The reason the wave functions collapse is because the particle is hit by the energy we send to detect it, whether it be a photon or whatever. Not because we are thinking about it in our minds.

However I must admit I found the following quote absolutely fascinating, I didn't know about this experiment.

In 1997 University of Geneva physicist Nicolas Gisin sent two entangled photons zooming along optical fibers until they were seven miles apart. One photon then hit a two-way mirror where it had a choice: either bounce off or go through. Detectors recorded what it randomly did. But whatever action it took, its entangled twin always performed the complementary action. The communication between the two happened at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light. It seems that quantum news travels instantaneously, limited by no external constraints?not even the speed of light. Since then, other researchers have duplicated and refined Gisin?s work. Today no one questions the immediate nature of this connectedness between bits of light or matter, or even entire clusters of atoms.

Admittedly haven't read the article, but what's to say a photon could collapse the probability wave if it we were not around to notice the deflection of said photon. If we shot a photon at a probability wave to collapse it but did not take any measurements of the energy we used, would the probability wave collapse?

probably.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: CLite
Most of the article is kind of misleading. The reason the wave functions collapse is because the particle is hit by the energy we send to detect it, whether it be a photon or whatever. Not because we are thinking about it in our minds.

However I must admit I found the following quote absolutely fascinating, I didn't know about this experiment.

In 1997 University of Geneva physicist Nicolas Gisin sent two entangled photons zooming along optical fibers until they were seven miles apart. One photon then hit a two-way mirror where it had a choice: either bounce off or go through. Detectors recorded what it randomly did. But whatever action it took, its entangled twin always performed the complementary action. The communication between the two happened at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light. It seems that quantum news travels instantaneously, limited by no external constraints?not even the speed of light. Since then, other researchers have duplicated and refined Gisin?s work. Today no one questions the immediate nature of this connectedness between bits of light or matter, or even entire clusters of atoms.

Admittedly haven't read the article, but what's to say a photon could collapse the probability wave if it we were not around to notice the deflection of said photon. If we shot a photon at a probability wave to collapse it but did not take any measurements of the energy we used, would the probability wave collapse?

probably.

How would we know?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
From time to time I have suggested that the door to God is through the heart, that could only evolve because it already adheres to and is a law of the universe, and that whether we create God or He creates us is unknowable because they mean the same thing.

Well I'll be darn if science doesn't seem to be suggesting something similar indeed:

I hope you enjoy what I thought was a fascinating read.

When you are on your deathbed, your hope will be that what you suggest is correct, because if it isn't, it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[LunarRay]

I think one has to be fully conversant with the Science and the Philosophy in order to assimilate the concept... I don't mean that the article is with out reasoning but I've not a well enough informed independent view to bounce off this...
I think, however, to presume the universe exists because of humankind makes little sense to me.. I know that may not be the actual thrust.. but it is what I took away from it... iow... I am, therefore, it is... and that gets to a point where there is a singularity of persons... and he created the universe because he was... or is.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think one has to be fully conversant with the Science and the Philosophy in order to assimilate the concept... I don't mean that the article is with out reasoning but I've not a well enough informed independent view to bounce off this...
I think, however, to presume the universe exists because of humankind makes little sense to me.. I know that may not be the actual thrust.. but it is what I took away from it... iow... I am, therefore, it is... and that gets to a point where there is a singularity of persons... and he created the universe because he was... or is.

Once Timmy Turtle was playing in the lab trying to find a way to tunnel between adjacent "branes" of the multiverse. He succeeded, but the act caused them to "bump" into each other releasing a massive amount of vacuum energy, enough in fact to create a new big bang. Since Timmy, his father and his father's friends had found a way to slip into 5 dimensional negative deSitter space which we here are merely projections of. By doing this and "rotating" along the temporal dimension, they were able to reinsert themselves in a future time in that new universe. They then went along and explored Timmy's creation for some while.

That's part of the Sam the Camel stories I tell my 10 year old son at bedtime.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

In a dark room even a candle is bright.

A rolling stone gathers no moss.

I got all the pills, that money can buy
But my mind won't really be blown
Like the blow that'll get'cha
When you get your picture
On the cover of the Rolling Stone.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Cerpin Taxt

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

In a dark room even a candle is bright.

A rolling stone gathers no moss.

I got all the pills, that money can buy
But my mind won't really be blown
Like the blow that'll get'cha
When you get your picture
On the cover of the Rolling Stone.

We knew that you would have nothing constructive to add to this fascinating subject!!

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think one has to be fully conversant with the Science and the Philosophy in order to assimilate the concept... I don't mean that the article is with out reasoning but I've not a well enough informed independent view to bounce off this...
I think, however, to presume the universe exists because of humankind makes little sense to me.. I know that may not be the actual thrust.. but it is what I took away from it... iow... I am, therefore, it is... and that gets to a point where there is a singularity of persons... and he created the universe because he was... or is.

Once Timmy Turtle was playing in the lab trying to find a way to tunnel between adjacent "branes" of the multiverse. He succeeded, but the act caused them to "bump" into each other releasing a massive amount of vacuum energy, enough in fact to create a new big bang. Since Timmy, his father and his father's friends had found a way to slip into 5 dimensional negative deSitter space which we here are merely projections of. By doing this and "rotating" along the temporal dimension, they were able to reinsert themselves in a future time in that new universe. They then went along and explored Timmy's creation for some while.

That's part of the Sam the Camel stories I tell my 10 year old son at bedtime.

I have no idea what you said... none whatsoever.. I actually tried to figure it out.. then the last line... and I became more amazed... You have a 10 yr old Ph.D. candidate, I presume.
Although some stuff seems so natural to me... so easy to grasp and pontificate for hours on... Some stuff eludes me no matter what I try to ingest. I've probably read more on string theory than game theory... more on the life of Kepler than John Nash... trying to get hold of what could have been in their minds... Kepler and his geometry Nash and his insane math... I don't like either... Math has too many ... numbers.. Kepler taking 10 yrs to figure out why the planets did react like they do in his 2nd law... 10 yrs.. It should have been obvious....

This thing Moonster drags out of the closet... amazes me... I like Sagan's view... "we are made of star stuff"... not this view... the universe is made of human stuff... sorta like that, anyhow... heheheheheh

edit: had to take a 't' off a star... hehehehe

 

[Harvey]

God created man in his image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment.

~ Mark Twain

 

[imported_gardener]

We are a product of the cosmos, not visa versa. Turning that relationship on its head is the same thing as the state of "Magical thinking" in children under 5 years old, a view where they control the world and those around them. Humankind was probably stuck in that state of mind for 10's of thousands of years, that period coming to an end, slowly, now.

There's nothing wrong with humankind not being the center of the universe, btw. And if you don't believe it, well, the universe could give a fuck.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: gardener
We are a product of the cosmos, not visa versa. Turning that relationship on its head is the same thing as the state of "Magical thinking" in children under 5 years old, a view where they control the world and those around them. Humankind was probably stuck in that state of mind for 10's of thousands of years, that period coming to an end, slowly, now.

There's nothing wrong with humankind not being the center of the universe, btw. And if you don't believe it, well, the universe could give a fuck.

How would the universe know to give a fuck if life did not exist within it?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Vic

How would the universe know to give a fuck if life did not exist within it?

You Are a Fluke of the Universe - DETERIORATA!

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

:music: :music:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The universe needs more magical thinkers. They ride beams of light. They see "David" in stone. They take that which is not and perhaps that which cannot be and make it tomorrows reality. It is the heart and soul of genius.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

They see "David" in stone.

Some of them see Jesus in a Cheetos and Mary in toast, too.

Proving that you can have your faith and eat it, too. :laugh:

 

[Oceandevi]

Entropy is real.

Also, the only "contact" we have with the universe is ancient light. All we can see is history.

 

[Vic]

What is faith? Faith is belief without proof. What is proof? Something we don't have.

 

[Moonbeam]

The seven principles of biocentrism:

1.What we perceive as reality is a process that involves our consciousness. An "external" reality, if it existed, would by definition have to exist in space. But this is meaningless, because space and time are not absolute realities but rather tools of the human and animal mind.

2.Our external and internal perceptions are inextricably intertwined. They are different sides of the same coin and cannot be divorced from one another.

3.The behavior of subatomic particles, indeed all particles and objects, is inextricably linked to the presence of an observer. Without the presence of a conscious observer, they at best exist in an undetermined state of probability waves.

4.Without consciousness, "matter" dwells in an undetermined state of probability. Any universe that could have preceded consciousness only existed in a probability state.

5.The structure of the universe is explainable only through biocentrism. The universe is fine-tuned for life, which makes perfect sense as life creates the universe, not the other way around. The "universe" is simply the complete spatio-temporal logic of the self.

6.Time does not have a real existence outside of animal-sense perception. It is the process by which we perceive changes in the universe.

7.Space, like time, is not an object or a thing. Space is another form of our animal understanding and does not have an independent reality. We carry space and time around with us like turtles with shells. Thus, there is no absolute self-existing matrix in which physical events occur independent of life.

 

[imported_gardener]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The universe needs more magical thinkers. They ride beams of light. They see "David" in stone. They take that which is not and perhaps that which cannot be and make it tomorrows reality. It is the heart and soul of genius.

Or...

Phillip Garrido can control sounds with his mind. He rides the crazy train.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The seven principles of biocentrism:

1.What we perceive as reality is a process that involves our consciousness. An "external" reality, if it existed, would by definition have to exist in space. But this is meaningless, because space and time are not absolute realities but rather tools of the human and animal mind.

2.Our external and internal perceptions are inextricably intertwined. They are different sides of the same coin and cannot be divorced from one another.

3.The behavior of subatomic particles, indeed all particles and objects, is inextricably linked to the presence of an observer. Without the presence of a conscious observer, they at best exist in an undetermined state of probability waves.

4.Without consciousness, "matter" dwells in an undetermined state of probability. Any universe that could have preceded consciousness only existed in a probability state.

5.The structure of the universe is explainable only through biocentrism. The universe is fine-tuned for life, which makes perfect sense as life creates the universe, not the other way around. The "universe" is simply the complete spatio-temporal logic of the self.

6.Time does not have a real existence outside of animal-sense perception. It is the process by which we perceive changes in the universe.

7.Space, like time, is not an object or a thing. Space is another form of our animal understanding and does not have an independent reality. We carry space and time around with us like turtles with shells. Thus, there is no absolute self-existing matrix in which physical events occur independent of life.

Reality is real. Our perception of it is not. And our consciousnesses exist in our perceptions of reality.

As to reality itself, spacetime exists in infinite dimensions. Spacetime is the key word. Space and time are the same thing. Time is a space. Space is a time. Our consciousnesses each exist in those particular points of infinite spacetime where all the conditions and circumstances exist to make them possible. Which have to exist inevitably both due the infinite probability of the universe and the fact that we exist to perceive it.
Entropy, or the arrow of time, is our perception of how energy transfers exhibit different behaviors depending on which direction they travel in time. This, and gravity, are in my belief results of the big bang.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

6.Time does not have a real existence outside of animal-sense perception. It is the process by which we perceive changes in the universe.

The reason for time is to keep everything from happening at once. It works, and I've found it's also good for telling the drummer where "1" is.