Came across some interesting new thinking is science of the existential questions we sometime deal with here

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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From time to time I have suggested that the door to God is through the heart, that could only evolve because it already adheres to and is a law of the universe, and that whether we create God or He creates us is unknowable because they mean the same thing.

Well I'll be darn if science doesn't seem to be suggesting something similar indeed:

I hope you enjoy what I thought was a fascinating read.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Sorry, you lost me when you put "god" and "science" together.

Actually, you lost yourself. You wear a rubber suit. Ideas bounce off you and stick to me.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: OCguy
Sorry, you lost me when you put "god" and "science" together.

Actually, you lost yourself. You wear a rubber suit. Ideas bounce off you and stick to me.

Oh Moonbeam, I just melt when you dazzle me with your intellect like so.



Put down the reefer until after 5pm at least.
 

imported_inspire

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Jun 29, 2006
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Fascinating, but also very reaching. The author uses the mathematical models of quantum physics to explain the nature of uncertainty, and at the end of the article, criticizes the Mathematics that scientists adhere to.

He attacks the traditional concepts of time & space. Concepts, that, still today are in revision. While he makes salient points that grant purchase to his skepticism of our current understanding of these entities, he does little to bolster his own view other than coaxing the reader to suspend disbelief, if only for a moment and imagine that the world is contigent on his or her perception of it.

And yet fact remains that stray bullets can kill a man, whether the shot was heard, seen, imagined, or perceived. Perception does indeed affect outcomes, as the author clearly stated, but it does so according to physical laws, however indeterministic, not whim; not fancy.

Again, the brave are overwhelmed.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: OCguy
Sorry, you lost me when you put "god" and "science" together.

Actually, you lost yourself. You wear a rubber suit. Ideas bounce off you and stick to me.

Oh Moonbeam, I just melt when you dazzle me with your intellect like so.



Put down the reefer until after 5pm at least.

In a dark room even a candle is bright.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Sorry, you lost me when you put "god" and "science" together.
Perhaps science is a tool to understand God. Perhaps people worshiping it is analogous to worshiping a window instead of what it offers, which is a glimpse to something one cannot see without it, a mere tool.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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i: Fascinating, but also very reaching. The author uses the mathematical models of quantum physics to explain the nature of uncertainty, and at the end of the article, criticizes the Mathematics that scientists adhere to.

M: You say the author does that but can you be specific as to how he uses discredited math to later support math or whatever it is you see?

i: He attacks the traditional concepts of time & space. Concepts, that, still today are in revision. While he makes salient points that grant purchase to his skepticism of our current understanding of these entities, he does little to bolster his own view other than coaxing the reader to suspend disbelief, if only for a moment and imagine that the world is contigent on his or her perception of it.

M: How so. I am not really somebody who just takes people's word for things. For example, I might say, he doesn't either and while you might be right, somebody who likes my name better might agree with me.

i: And yet fact remains that stray bullets can kill a man, whether the shot was heard, seen, imagined, or perceived. Perception does indeed affect outcomes, as the author clearly stated, but it does so according to physical laws, however indeterministic, not whim; not fancy.

M: This is a distinction with a difference? If consciousness creates the universe it does so according to law and not whim, no?

Again, the brave are overwhelmed.[/quote]

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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No one knows how we are related to the universe, however it makes sense that all we can know is what our senses tell us. It is possible that what we call reality is just the realization of a potential waiting for us to experience it. We know that at the smallest level our interaction changes things which might be to things which are. Its not unrealistic to extend this to the universe at large. It is an interesting hypothesis.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
No one knows how we are related to the universe, however it makes sense that all we can know is what our senses tell us. It is possible that what we call reality is just the realization of a potential waiting for us to experience it. We know that at the smallest level our interaction changes things which might be to things which are. Its not unrealistic to extend this to the universe at large. It is an interesting hypothesis.

Indeed it is. But I read nothing that disproves "God". Still, an interesting read and raises some questions to consider as MB points out.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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The Biocentric Universe Theory: Life Creates Time, Space, and the Cosmos Itself

I think someone is more than a bit unclear on the concept of what a "theory" is.

 

babylon5

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Dec 11, 2000
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: dphantom
Indeed it is. But I read nothing that disproves "God".

That is because science is not interested in disproving "God."

Yep. Science isn't into dealing with MAN-made dogmatic unquestionable fantasies.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: babylon5
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: dphantom
Indeed it is. But I read nothing that disproves "God".

That is because science is not interested in disproving "God."

Yep. Science isn't into dealing with MAN-made dogmatic unquestionable fantasies.

Science isn't interested in disproving your definition of "God" either.

;)
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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It is hard to get one's mind around this notion and all the ramifications of it.. The especially hard bit probably the easy bit for most folks...
How can one know that the state of being is wave with out somehow seeing it... then when you become aware of that state it ain't that state...

I've to conjure this a bit more... I'm missing something...
 

eternalone

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2008
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Good article, this knowledge has been taught by the Hindus, Buddhist, Mayans ect. Its just science is now being applied to the concept. The term science being used, in my comment, as an accepted and popular way to present information, not that its in anyway better than religion because its not. But just another example of the way humans communicate information to each other.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Sorry, you lost me when you put "god" and "science" together.

The concepts are not mutually exclusive.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Originally posted by: Kadarin
The Biocentric Universe Theory: Life Creates Time, Space, and the Cosmos Itself
I think someone is more than a bit unclear on the concept of what a "theory" is.

"Light, without eyes, illuminates nothing."

Text
 

darkhorror

Member
Aug 13, 2006
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That article is ridiculous, it implies that we actually create the universe around us and with out us it wouldn't exist. It then tries and fails to use quantum physics to support itself. The end finally says what it's really talking about. Which has nothing to do with us actually creating the universe, nothing to do with physics or science. But instead about the creation of our perception of the universe, and how we perceive for example "space and time". That doesn't change the fact that the universe was around before us.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
From time to time I have suggested that the door to God is through the heart, that could only evolve because it already adheres to and is a law of the universe, and that whether we create God or He creates us is unknowable because they mean the same thing.

Well I'll be darn if science doesn't seem to be suggesting something similar indeed:

I hope you enjoy what I thought was a fascinating read.

That's a very interesting read.