Camaro - Rumor has it it will get a 4cyl engine

[Dr. Detroit]

Word is that GM is thinking about offering a 3rd engine choice in the Camaro.

2.0L Turbo 260HP (supposedly they will bump the GXP Solstice to 300HP in 2009)
3.6L DI 300HP
6.2L V8 420HP

The 2.0L is a fantastic engine and I think its a great choice for the Camaro crowd. It will help increase GM's CAFE numbers as well.


:thumbsup:

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Well if that bump to 300HP does come, that would place the entry level 4cyl within a wiff of the outgoing Z/28/SS power levels (325 I think). Thats actually really neat and totally blows the old V6 out of the water, but I doubt the average Camaro fan would even think about a 4cyl and would just mutter something along the lines of "no replacement for displacement".

 

[CptCrunch]

With the specs of those engines, I dont really think you could go wrong. that v6 should move the camaro well and provide good fuel economy as well

 

[DivideBYZero]

Sounds cool and the modding community would surely jump on it.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Sounds cool and the modding community would surely jump on it.

The modding community is at a stand still right now with the 2.0L turbo engine from the gxp. It doesnt allow you to extract any power from it due to the nazi'ish bosch ecm. Any gains that you get from mods the ecm counters it by lowering the boost. Install a boost controller and it closes the throttle or goes into limp mode once it gets past the torque values its ment to achieve.
I thought when i bought this car i'd be able to extract easy hp from it like on my dsm, but its been nothing but a nightmare. Even my hptuners software is useless because they havent been able to fully unlock the complicated ecm.

 

[nakedfrog]

"Honey, can I buy another car?"
"WTF NO!"

 

[GoatMonkey]

It looks like Ford is going to have to come up with an answer for these pretty soon. The V-6 has the same HP as the V-8 in the Mustang. It probably doesn't have the torque, but still that's bragging rights. Ford may have their twin-force engines in the lineup around the same time that the Camaro is available though.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
It looks like Ford is going to have to come up with an answer for these pretty soon. The V-6 has the same HP as the V-8 in the Mustang. It probably doesn't have the torque, but still that's bragging rights. Ford may have their twin-force engines in the lineup around the same time that the Camaro is available though.

with the next taurus getting 350 hp i don't think power will be a prob for the 'stang.

 

[Pariah]

What does the topend Taurus have to do with the Mustang? Ford is just about to release a 540HP Mustang, so it's not like they have to wait around for the Taurus to come save the day. Are they going to be able to put that 350HP engine in the Mustang and sell it for the same price as the current V6 or even base V8? Unlikely, so it still has no relevance.

 

[silpherx]

I love the camaro's design and having a 300hp car under 25k will be awesome. The LS3 V8 will also be great with AFM will get similar mileage to the V6. Hopefuly they can keep it under 3800 lbs so it's not a big cow like the challenger or charger.

 

[marvdmartian]

Well, at least it's not the horrendous 4-cylinder they put in the F-body Camaros the first year they came out!

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Sounds cool and the modding community would surely jump on it.

The modding community is at a stand still right now with the 2.0L turbo engine from the gxp. It doesnt allow you to extract any power from it due to the nazi'ish bosch ecm. Any gains that you get from mods the ecm counters it by lowering the boost. Install a boost controller and it closes the throttle or goes into limp mode once it gets past the torque values its ment to achieve.
I thought when i bought this car i'd be able to extract easy hp from it like on my dsm, but its been nothing but a nightmare. Even my hptuners software is useless because they havent been able to fully unlock the complicated ecm.

The UK Astra VXR has been boosted from 240 to 280hp here.

Thorney motorsports, a well known UK tuner, has options up to 375hp, here.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Sounds cool and the modding community would surely jump on it.

The modding community is at a stand still right now with the 2.0L turbo engine from the gxp. It doesnt allow you to extract any power from it due to the nazi'ish bosch ecm. Any gains that you get from mods the ecm counters it by lowering the boost. Install a boost controller and it closes the throttle or goes into limp mode once it gets past the torque values its ment to achieve.
I thought when i bought this car i'd be able to extract easy hp from it like on my dsm, but its been nothing but a nightmare. Even my hptuners software is useless because they havent been able to fully unlock the complicated ecm.

The UK Astra VXR has been boosted from 240 to 280hp here.

Thorney motorsports, a well known UK tuner, has options up to 375hp, here.

Those cars dont use the lnf engine found in the solstice/sky.

 

[mwmorph]

Reminds me of the Ford Turbo 4 Fox Body Mustngs of the 80s. Should be fun as hell and a great "sleeper" performance piece that will become one of those sought after cars in the used market for performance freaks.

 

[Billy Idol]

This rumor is a bit old. Unfortunately, its been stated the 3.6 will come in around 260hp instead of the hoped 300. It will remain direct injected but I suppose they couldn't have a base Camaro nipping at the heels of the CTS. With the V6 only coming in at 260 I'd be more than a bit surprised if they went ahead with the turbo 4.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3269

In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter?s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.

Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM?s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro?s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.

The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.

Considering any LS powerplant they choose will scare those fuel numbers- they're underwhelming. Still vastly superior to the Ranger engine in the base Stang but not where I'd hoped. With any luck in a handful of months more finalized numbers will be out and perhaps they'll be more optimistic.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Camaro, 4 banger?

gross

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Sounds cool and the modding community would surely jump on it.

The modding community is at a stand still right now with the 2.0L turbo engine from the gxp. It doesnt allow you to extract any power from it due to the nazi'ish bosch ecm. Any gains that you get from mods the ecm counters it by lowering the boost. Install a boost controller and it closes the throttle or goes into limp mode once it gets past the torque values its ment to achieve.
I thought when i bought this car i'd be able to extract easy hp from it like on my dsm, but its been nothing but a nightmare. Even my hptuners software is useless because they havent been able to fully unlock the complicated ecm.

The UK Astra VXR has been boosted from 240 to 280hp here.

Thorney motorsports, a well known UK tuner, has options up to 375hp, here.

Those cars dont use the lnf engine found in the solstice/sky.

It's the same engine. Minor differences exist, but they are both 1998cc Ecotec motors and use the same ECU, AFAIK. Your complaint was laid with the ECU and I'm saying it's cracked.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Billy Idol
This rumor is a bit old. Unfortunately, its been stated the 3.6 will come in around 260hp instead of the hoped 300. It will remain direct injected but I suppose they couldn't have a base Camaro nipping at the heels of the CTS. With the V6 only coming in at 260 I'd be more than a bit surprised if they went ahead with the turbo 4.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3269

In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter?s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.

Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM?s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro?s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.

The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.

Considering any LS powerplant they choose will scare those fuel numbers- they're underwhelming. Still vastly superior to the Ranger engine in the base Stang but not where I'd hoped. With any luck in a handful of months more finalized numbers will be out and perhaps they'll be more optimistic.

Unless they are detuning it the 3.6l DI makes 304hp in the CTS. Or like old times they are just under rating it quite a bit?


The 4cyl i don;t think would be very fast as the cars it is in now are smaller and lighter. But still will be way ahead of the Iron Duke days.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Billy Idol
This rumor is a bit old. Unfortunately, its been stated the 3.6 will come in around 260hp instead of the hoped 300. It will remain direct injected but I suppose they couldn't have a base Camaro nipping at the heels of the CTS. With the V6 only coming in at 260 I'd be more than a bit surprised if they went ahead with the turbo 4.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3269

In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter?s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.

Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM?s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro?s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.

The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.

Considering any LS powerplant they choose will scare those fuel numbers- they're underwhelming. Still vastly superior to the Ranger engine in the base Stang but not where I'd hoped. With any luck in a handful of months more finalized numbers will be out and perhaps they'll be more optimistic.

Unless they are detuning it the 3.6l DI makes 304hp in the CTS. Or like old times they are just under rating it quite a bit?


The 4cyl i don;t think would be very fast as the cars it is in now are smaller and lighter. But still will be way ahead of the Iron Duke days.

It's the non DI 3.6L that's found in the Aura and Malibu which they're bumping up to 260hp.

 

[GoatMonkey]

It seems like Ford is more willing to do things to the Mustang that will reduce the weight of the car than Chevrolet is with the Camaro. One of the big selling points for these cars is bang for the buck. One of these days people will start to figure out that a 3800+ pound car is not going to have much bang for the buck at the gas pump.

I don't think it should get to the point of not having a V-8, but it should have a smaller V-8. Really at this point both Ford and Chevy should be making a 4.0L V-8. I would like to see a Mustang with 4.0 V-8 with direct injection. An engine like that should be good for ~350+hp on 87 octane gas, weigh less, and be smaller to allow for a smaller lighter car. Then in future generations of the car, move to even smaller V-8s.

At some point car manufacturers are going to have to move more toward lighter weight materials in their lower end products as well. I like what Chevrolet is doing with the Z06 and ZR1 as kind of experiments in manufacturing cars with carbon fiber and other weight saving measures. Hopefully what they learn will start to trickle down into the less expensive models as the manufacturing techniques are improved to make it cheaper.

I don't see any reason that V-8s need to go away in general just because gas is expensive, but manufacturers need to take some more steps to keep them practical in the sense of long term bang for the buck.

 

[Billy Idol]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

It's the non DI 3.6L that's found in the Aura and Malibu which they're bumping up to 260hp.

One would think so considering the horsepower quote- but if Lutz and Welburn are to be believed it will indeed be the DI variant.

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
It seems like Ford is more willing to do things to the Mustang that will reduce the weight of the car than Chevrolet is with the Camaro. One of the big selling points for these cars is bang for the buck. One of these days people will start to figure out that a 3800+ pound car is not going to have much bang for the buck at the gas pump.

I don't think it should get to the point of not having a V-8, but it should have a smaller V-8. Really at this point both Ford and Chevy should be making a 4.0L V-8. I would like to see a Mustang with 4.0 V-8 with direct injection. An engine like that should be good for ~350+hp on 87 octane gas, weigh less, and be smaller to allow for a smaller lighter car. Then in future generations of the car, move to even smaller V-8s.

At some point car manufacturers are going to have to move more toward lighter weight materials in their lower end products as well. I like what Chevrolet is doing with the Z06 and ZR1 as kind of experiments in manufacturing cars with carbon fiber and other weight saving measures. Hopefully what they learn will start to trickle down into the less expensive models as the manufacturing techniques are improved to make it cheaper.

I don't see any reason that V-8s need to go away in general just because gas is expensive, but manufacturers need to take some more steps to keep them practical in the sense of long term bang for the buck.

In GM's case the Chevy smallblock remains their most economical engine. As weight is concerned.. those V8s are often quoted as being lighter than BMW's meager inline 6. To blame the portly nature of the near 2 ton beasts of today purely on the engine isn't the whole story. Cheap cars are heavy- Korean econoboxes for example are quite massive for their size and in turn aren't economical as far as fuel is concerned. The rear drive Zeta platform has always been tubby.. its being adressed with the Camaro but I'm not optimistic the V8 Camaro will be much under 3800lbs.

The Mustang certainly is lighter but it is also quite a bit smaller. The rear seats resemble a package shelf in a Ferrari and the trunk is similarly next to useless. Camaros of the last couple generations have been more utilitarian in those aspects but without a hatch I'll be interested to see if they remain so. Additionally the new Camaro will have independent rear suspension which I suppose is partially to blame for the Zeta's heft.

I'd think Ford's overhead cam V8 would be more suited for a smaller displacement of roughly 4 liters as you've proposed. At a certain point though I'd be concerned about making it a high revving but too peaky engine like an RX8- hardly suitable for city driving. Perhaps this wouldn't be the case at 4 liters.. but I doubt the gains would outweigh the losses much if at all. A pushrod Chevy smallblock wouldn't be a lot of fun in a ~240ci form IMO. Smaller V8 OHC engines don't yield higher fuel numbers or better driving at least as far as the Big Three have been concerned. Ford's modular 4.6 doesn't deliver higher fuel mileage than a SBC, the Northstar/Aurora V8 remains vastly inferior to the SBC in all facets while greatly increasing complexity. Perhaps further development will produce something more in line with todays fuel concerns but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[batmang]

A turbo 4 cylinder in a Camaro would be aweeeesome.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Ford doesn't need to make the v8 smaller when they have the eco-boost/twin force line of engines coming along. They just need to convince the mustang crowd that a 3.5l twin turbo v6 making 350hp-415hp and getting better gas mileage is better then a v8 for the mustang.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Ford doesn't need to make the v8 smaller when they have the eco-boost/twin force line of engines coming along. They just need to convince the mustang crowd that a 3.5l twin turbo v6 making 350hp-415hp and getting better gas mileage is better then a v8 for the mustang.

You're pretty much going to get comments like this:

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Camaro, 4 banger?

gross

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Ford doesn't need to make the v8 smaller when they have the eco-boost/twin force line of engines coming along. They just need to convince the mustang crowd that a 3.5l twin turbo v6 making 350hp-415hp and getting better gas mileage is better then a v8 for the mustang.

You're pretty much going to get comments like this:

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Camaro, 4 banger?

gross

Yes, exactly. The Mustang and Camaro have to offer a V-8 for the time being.

Now, if it's a twin-force V-8, that would work. I think a twin-force V6 Mustang would be pretty cool, but non-V-8 Mustangs have not been well received in the past. The SVO Mustang was an interesting idea, but nobody was ready for a turbo I-4 Mustang back in the early 80's.

I understand that the SB Chevy V-8 is compact and light for its displacement. I'm just not so sure that it would need so much displacement if the car were made lighter. I also understand that the actual weight of that particular engine design will not go down that much if all they do is cut the displacement from 6.2 down to something lower since they would just thicken the walls of the block.

There is not as clear of a path for what Chevrolet should do with the engine in my eyes. It would really require an all new engine design. Maybe something similar to the CTS engine, but in a V-8 configuration. The Chevrolet side of this issue should focus more on pure weight loss of the car overall. The problem with that is that if the Camaro loses the weight it needs to lose it will be as good as the Corvette.

Probably the smarter thing for GM to do is just leave the Camaro as it is and build another sports car under another brand like Saturn or Pontiac that uses the turbo 4 from the Solstice, but in a 2+2 configuration. That would actually end up being a more direct competitor for the new Hyundai coupe.

I think it would be pretty cool if Saturn stuck that turbo I-4 into something else in their lineup like the Aura, or Astra. You'd get torque steer from hell, but it would be fast and get reasonably good fuel economy.