Calling recent STEM majors/graduates.

[_Rick_]

Er, yeah no what he mentioned is indeed math.

Some of it may well be, but only at a very basic level. A lot of what he mentioned was theoretical comp sci, which isn't really math.
Linear systems are a tiny subset of linear algebra.
Vector calculus (that most comp sci students will see) is a basic introduction more oriented toward giving the students a handful of tools and tricks, rather than actually going deeply through the "why" of things.

 

[slugg]

Some of it may well be, but only at a very basic level. A lot of what he mentioned was theoretical comp sci, which isn't really math.
Linear systems are a tiny subset of linear algebra.
Vector calculus (that most comp sci students will see) is a basic introduction more oriented toward giving the students a handful of tools and tricks, rather than actually going deeply through the "why" of things.

I would argue that theoretical computer science is a specialized math, similar to how computer engineering is a specialized electrical engineering. And just FYI, most computer science math falls under discrete mathematics, which is math. It might not be traditional algebra or calculus, but it is indeed math. I took a class on discrete stochastic processes as part of my computer science curriculum; do you want to say that's not math, just because we spoke in terms of code, rather than meaningless symbols? I'd love to know what John Carmack has to say about this, LOL!

Math not found.
Most of that is just calculations, some not even that. Most is pretty basic stuff.

Math is when you have to obtain general solutions, and show under which constraints these solutions hold.
That barely gets scratched upon, there are maybe some proofs to be done in the context of formal languages, but rarely.

... and as far as the work I did in those classes, it was mainly general solutions, proofs, and analysis, which includes identifying constraints under which they held. Hardly any calculations were ever done; it was rare that we actually "plugged and chugged." In fact, there was so little emphasis on applications that most of the students ended up with a degree without even knowing how to code.

I say this all the time: computer science != computer programming.



OP: I can tell you this. There's a huge difference between a programmer that's good at math versus just a programmer. A calculator will not help you with math, but it's handy for quick arithmetic. When you start doing any real statistics, you'll be using an actual computer, anyways. So just stick with a calculator that you know and love. If you already have a particular calculator of choice, just stick with that. You will hardly ever use it. If Wolfram Alpha works for you, then that's fine, but heed my warning: do not rely on it! Solve your own problems until they become second nature.

 

[_Rick_]

My perspective is from someone who majored in Mathematics, but in close contact with the people doing CompSci. So I saw their math curriculum, and was not impressed.
Yes, they did some introductory maths for the first two years, and some discrete math, but it lacked the depth and breadth and relevance to be much more than a basic aptitude test (Failing around 40% of students, IIRC).
Now I'm not saying that computer science is programming, almost the opposite is true. Programming is to CS what lab work is to Chemistry or Biology. It's necessary for some computer scientists to prove their hypotheses. Others can do without completely, looking at theoretical problems instead, and disregarding some of the constraints imposed by reality.

And, numerical mathematics is only mathematics as long as you work on proving that an algorithm converges to a solution, etc. I'm not sure Carmack did a lot of maths (but I don't follow his exploits), I would rather expect him to be a Computer Engineer, using existing methods, perhaps in a novel fashion, but taking their characteristics for granted.

 

[Merad]

I'm currently a grad student in CS. Most undergrad curriculums that I've seen require Calc 1 & 2, Linear Algebra, and calculus based physics. At my school going one class beyond that will get you a math minor, so a fair amount of CS people end up taking Calc 3.

In my undergrad (many years ago at a different school) I originally thought I was going to be an engineering major, so I went all the way through Calc 3 and Diff Eq. I can't really say that it helped me that much or gave me any real advantage. CS honestly isn't all that math intensive unless you are very focused on the theoretical side of things.

You can expect that most professors won't give a damn what you use at home, but you won't be able to use cell phones or laptops on a test, so no WA. If you want to make a good investment for those courses, I would echo the people recommending a Ti-89. Mine is about 12 years old now and still going strong.

 

[slugg]

Well then. Judging by everyone else's feedback on the computer science curriculum, I guess my school is ass backwards. You would have been absolutely screwed if you didn't do a lot of math. But let's call it not-math, to make _Rick_ happy. So do other schools have their comp sci programs in their college of engineering, or are they now a business degree to appeal to the masses and have less "scary math?"

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Well then. Judging by everyone else's feedback on the computer science curriculum, I guess my school is ass backwards. You would have been absolutely screwed if you didn't do a lot of math. But let's call it not-math, to make _Rick_ happy. So do other schools have their comp sci programs in their college of engineering, or are they now a business degree to appeal to the masses and have less "scary math?"

I don't think any com sci program has lots of math unless you're doing like numerical computing. And even that stuff tends to not use a calculator that much.

 

[Merad]

Well then. Judging by everyone else's feedback on the computer science curriculum, I guess my school is ass backwards. You would have been absolutely screwed if you didn't do a lot of math. But let's call it not-math, to make _Rick_ happy. So do other schools have their comp sci programs in their college of engineering, or are they now a business degree to appeal to the masses and have less "scary math?"

Two people can go through the same program and have very different experiences. The math needed for most core classes is simply not that intensive IMO, at least not compared to like calc classes or diffeq.

At my school for example person A could take computer graphics, digital image processing, and applied neural networks, and they'd agree with you about shittons of math. Person B OTOH might take client side web programming, server side web programming, and networking. Not so much math in there.

 

[Ruptga]

Here's my school's suggested curriculum.
http://cs.mst.edu/media/academic/cs/documents/undergraduate/Fact_Sheet_02.09.09.pdf

 

[slugg]

Two people can go through the same program and have very different experiences. The math needed for most core classes is simply not that intensive IMO, at least not compared to like calc classes or diffeq.

At my school for example person A could take computer graphics, digital image processing, and applied neural networks, and they'd agree with you about shittons of math. Person B OTOH might take client side web programming, server side web programming, and networking. Not so much math in there.

Agreed with your person A/B comparison. But where I went to school, person B would then be getting a business degree (information systems) rather than an engineering degree (computer science). Same shit, different pile, I guess.

 

[Merad]

Agreed with your person A/B comparison. But where I went to school, person B would then be getting a business degree (information systems) rather than an engineering degree (computer science). Same shit, different pile, I guess.

That makes no sense at all. Doing web programming has nothing to do with getting a business degree.

 

[Anubis]

physics
did everything with a TI83+
im not even sure the 89 existed then
computer stuff was not nearly as powerful either

we did use matlab and maple and such

 

[slugg]

That makes no sense at all. Doing web programming has nothing to do with getting a business degree.

Yea I agree. But let me explain my school's point of view...

The college of engineering requires X, Y, and Z credits in general STEM classes. Nobody may get any engineering degree without these classes. The college of business has much more relaxed requirements for both STEM (obviously) and even business courses. There are many business-specific computer courses that can take the place of their comp sci equivalents, and they're more application-based (i.e. no math). For example - a databases class in the college of engineering involves learning relational algebra, calculus, set theory, and algorithms. But in the college of business, the equivalent class talks about designing schemas in Oracle around a client's requirements, and stuff like that. On the other side of the fence, our college of engineering only allows one programming class to count toward your degree, whereas the college of business allows any number of classes to count.

So let's just say that the department of computer science *wanted* to offer a degree geared toward application development. If that were the case, the college would reject it as an engineering degree, which is exactly what has happened. As an alternative, the Information Systems track was fabricated as a sort of specialized MIS degree; MIS with less management and more computer stuff. So while some of your classes end up being core computer science classes, most of the others are application-based with little to no math. With little to no math and theory, the college of engineering will refuse to give you a degree, but the college of business will happily do it.

Other schools do things differently. I've seen some universities incorporate computer science in their college of mathematics, as opposed to engineering. I've even seen an information systems program offered as a Library Science degree. Same shit, different pile. What's important is that if you're looking to get an application-based education, then you'd like skip over most of the math.

 

[brianmanahan]

we did use matlab and maple and such

aww yeah, matlab and maple

wait, i hate those

 

[arkcom]

physics
did everything with a TI83+
im not even sure the 89 existed then
computer stuff was not nearly as powerful either

we did use matlab and maple and such

Did you go on to grad school? If not, what kind of work did you get?

 

[Merad]

Yea I agree. But let me explain my school's point of view...

Yeah, that's a strange setup IMO. To answer your previous question, I don't think I've ever heard of a CS program that was considered a business degree. Schools that have a strong engineering program seem to like throwing CS into the College of Engineering. Those that don't mostly seem to put it into College of Arts & Science or something similar, though I have seen a few Colleges of Computing.

My school has a computing degree in the College of Business (Computer Information Systems), it's basically a catch-all "IT" type degree for people who like computers but can't handle CS or don't want to program. For example, one of their senior level courses that I've heard a lot of "it's hard" complaints about is a programming course using visual basic...

 

[Anubis]

Did you go on to grad school? If not, what kind of work did you get?

fuck no I didn't go to grad school
I work as a test/dev engineer - mostly do testing of various things. which really means I get to break stuff all day long and get paid for it