Calling Aigo for watercooling layout request + case recommendations

[thecoolnessrune]

In the near future I'm going to be building a desktop, I want to design this from the ground up around watercooling. I've been reading guides so on and so forth, and no that with patience I can pull this off.

My intentions are to get a Quad Core utilizing the X38 Express chipset when it is released. The graphics card at this point is going to be an 8800GTS.

So I am wondering about blocks. I think since I am a newb I will want to stick with low restriction blocks over acceleration jets as I'm not entirely sure yet about the hole process of draining the loop and dismantling the block to clean the heads. I know I want a full cover block for the graphics card.

I am also wondering about the radiator. I already have pretty much settled on a PA series radiator. But I'm wondering whether or not I really need to invest in the 120.3. It would seem my case options would be a lot easier if I could do a 120.2. I need to cool the following

(Most likely) Intel Core 2 Q6600
NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS (may be GTX)
Intel X38 Express chipset
I don't *think* I need extra cooling on the southbridge but I may put a Swiftech MCW30 on it *if* I can find out whether or not it fits.

That should be it. I'm already pretty set on using a Swiftech Micro-res for its simplicity, but am open to other options. Of course Tygon tubing since it is so highly recommended here, along with some sort of coil tube wrapping so I dont get any kinks.

So what I mainly am seeking advice on are things:

1. Non-acceleration blocks for CPU, GPU, and chipsets
2. Recommended radiators
3. Recommended pumps and pump placement (I dont know but I believe I'm getting into the double pump category)
4. A general schematic of layout. I'm thinking Reservoir --> Radiator --> Pump --> CPU --> GPU --> Pump --> X38 (might cause leaks with that?) --> Southbridge (still optional) --> back to Reservoir. I think I'd put the T-line after the GPU as that would lead to the lowest point but would require me to go Southbridge --> X38 --> radiator to keep a "U" figure correct? Cause if I went from the bottom of the GPU up to the X38 then down to the Southbridge only to go back up to the reservoir then that would give me an "S" figure that would be almost impossible to drain correct?
5. Cases that would be able to suitably contain the radiator.

So can I have all this help? I know I may seem noobish in many areas of this but I'm willing to learn.

Thank you for all the help.

 

[JAG87]

lower brightness for extensive reading - check
flamesuit within reach - check
panino with mortadella - check
something to drink - check

ok, Im ready. hopefully his post will fit into my 30 inch screen without having to scroll, so I can enjoy my panino in peace.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Eh?? What are you talking about jag

 

[Raider1284]

For Waterblocks:
cpu: dtek Fuzion or Apogee GT/X
motherboard: MCW30
video: MCW60 and ramsinks, or full cover block like http://www.petrastechshop.com/swstfucowafo.html or http://www.petrastechshop.com/ekfucowaforn2.html
pumps: mcp655 or mcp350/mcp355, you can addon to the mpc350/355 like this: http://www.petrastechshop.com/peddcudeddcp.html to improve their performance

a 120.2 radiator will work, but it wont be able to handle high overclocks and your temps will not be "Great". In terms of placement, the res should be right before the pump, but the rest should be arranged so the least amount of tubing is being used (i.e. the shortest path possible). Ideally you want res->pump->rad->blocks->res, but adding a couple feet more of tubing to achieve this as opposed to another shorter layout will hurt your temps.

hope this helps

 

[JAG87]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Eh?? What are you talking about jag

when aigomorla sees this thread you will understand what im talking about.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Raider1284
For Waterblocks:
cpu: dtek Fuzion or Apogee GT/X
motherboard: MCW30
video: MCW60 and ramsinks, or full cover block like http://www.petrastechshop.com/swstfucowafo.html or http://www.petrastechshop.com/ekfucowaforn2.html
pumps: mcp655 or mcp350/mcp355, you can addon to the mpc350/355 like this: http://www.petrastechshop.com/peddcudeddcp.html to improve their performance

a 120.2 radiator will work, but it wont be able to handle high overclocks and your temps will not be "Great". In terms of placement, the res should be right before the pump, but the rest should be arranged so the least amount of tubing is being used (i.e. the shortest path possible). Ideally you want res->pump->rad->blocks->res, but adding a couple feet more of tubing to achieve this as opposed to another shorter layout will hurt your temps.

hope this helps

So you believe a single mcp655 will pump adequately through the entire loop? That would be awesome if i could. And I also do intend to go for the PA120.3 since I do want good temps as the place I live is never really normal ambient anyways.. more like 80F. instead of 75F. You think the MCW30 will cover the X38 too?

After seeing the cost of a full cover block that I can only use once, I think the ramsinks and MCW60 would be a better idea. At least I *might* be able to use it again with an upgrade. $140 is a hell of a lot to spend on a non-reusable block. Should be a lot less strain on the water loop too.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: JAG87

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Eh?? What are you talking about jag

when aigomorla sees this thread you will understand what im talking about.

lol... alright then, i hope to see :laugh:

 

[Raider1284]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune


So you believe a single mcp655 will pump adequately through the entire loop? That would be awesome if i could. And I also do intend to go for the PA120.3 since I do want good temps as the place I live is never really normal ambient anyways.. more like 80F. instead of 75F. You think the MCW30 will cover the X38 too?

the mcp655 can handle 10ft of head pressure, meaning it can pump water up 10 vertical feet. Most of the blocks I listed are low pressure blocks, and you shouldn't have over 10 feet of cabling, so you should be good to go. If your worried about it you can grab the premodified mcp350/355 http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html which has over 18ft of head pressure. The modified pump could def handle a cpu/motherboard/gpu combo.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I think that will depend what I have to do with my rad.. may wind up having to mount the thing outside as I'm not sure yet how I'm going to mount that huge son-of-beach inside a conventional case. If I can do it in the case I'll get a 655, if not, I'll get the modified 355.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Bump for aigo.. I wanna see what JAG is talking about :laugh:

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: JAG87
lower brightness for extensive reading - check
flamesuit within reach - check
panino with mortadella - check
something to drink - check

ok, Im ready. hopefully his post will fit into my 30 inch screen without having to scroll, so I can enjoy my panino in peace.

LMAO...

well first off seems like you want things done correct the first time around. Im also assuming your going to dedicate a fair amount of budget to this.

Well Here goes, sorry for nuking your monitor JAG.

For High End:

Case: MM U2-UFO
Radiator: PA120.3 front mounted
CPU: ApogeeGTX /w Copper top <--- wait for the apogeeGTX revision. or u can buy a top for 40.
Pump: Iwaki RD-30 <--- needs its own meanwell S150-24
Gpu: EK 8800GTS FC blocks. <-- gives the best bling/performance. MCW60 will be better, but you need the G80 adapter, and air sink kit.
Chipset: MCW30 <--- hands down my favorate chipset block.
Reservoir: Swiftech MCreservoir. EK's really blow unless you mod it with a credit card. Vortex issue.

This is a single loop layout, of course you could dual loop it like mine. But it should look like this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0721.jpg

:]



For medium end. <where most people are the most comfortable with>

Case: CM STacker T01 < you'll need to open the bottom out more. You can do it with a dremel, jiggy, or even a nibbler, your hands will cramp up if you use a nibbler>

Cpu Block: ApogeeGTX <--- d-tek fusion cant win against a quadcore
Gpu: Swiftech MCW60 /w G80 kit D-tek unisink ONLY works on the GTX
Chipset: MCW30
Radiator: MCR320 <--- wont be much of a difference with a PA120.3 unless you sli.
Pump: DDC-3.2 which is the MCP355 or MCP655 which is also known as the liang D5 <little note if you go with the DDC-3.2 i would recomend a Petratop with it. Or a radical/Alphacool top. Makes barb 1/2.
Reservoir: Swiftech Microres.

This system would look simular to this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0406.jpg

On the left again:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0399.jpg


Now the radaitor, and the reservoir will come with plastic ugly barbs. My recomendation is to pick up 4x EK G1/4 1/2OD barbs.

The stacker route will be the easiest to setup, and handle. The MM route is more for extreme people.


PA120.2 vs MCR320 <--- bigger always win. MCR320 is cheaper then the PA120.2 and will give you better performance.

PA120.2 vs MCR220 <--- the PA will give you 2-3C better temps. But cost 2x the price of a MCR220.


Let me know if you have any more questions.

Oh another note on fans. Cathar, creator of the PA series radiators stated when he built/designed this radiator, he was using YATES. So i recomend yates with any PA series, and MCR radiators. Yate DSH /w fan controler will allow you to tune your system according to ambients/perference. If you want quiet, you can tun them down, and if your a non stop folder, then you can blast them on high.



Loop Order:
Avid overclocker,
Pump -> radiator -> cpu -> chipset -> gpu ->reservoir -> pump1

Avid Gamer with moderate to no overclocking:
Pump -> Radiator -> gpu -> chipset -> cpu -> reservoir -> Pump.

Hope you have better luck then i do on my dual 24's. Because i cant fit this on 1 screen JAG.

As for the flames, i have pictures, so that makes it hard for people to flame me.


Oh and i love petrastechshop.com But you should also check out jab-tech.com and sidewindercomputers.com

The prices at each store will vary, sometimes with jab-tech and sidewinder being about 10 dollars cheaper. Jab-tech's owner is john, Petras' is alex. I have no clue on who the owner is at sidewinders.

As for tubing, Masterkleer 7/16ID tubing /w zipties as clamps is always my first recomendation and choice. If you want bling, you can tygon it, but tygon tubing cost a GRIP more. JAG can vouch for the 7/16ID tubing with zipties. Its the absolute best.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I think I will go the mid route as I am just getting into this and don't need to *completely* fvck it up the first time

Can you explain a little more in depth what I would have to do to the stacker to fit the Swiftech radiator in? Also, I see you have your radiator set to suck air in. Is this better? Wouldn't that draw in a bunch of crap with it as well? (Dust from the floor, etc.)

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Oh, BTW, what sort of wattage would the pump add to my system? (and for the heck of it, a single 12" UV cathode light?)

 

[aigomorla]

u can lay down a aircondition filter on the floor b4 you stamp your rad on the bottom.

Pulling will work the best in this layout because physics first state cold air is heavier then warm air. This way your getting the coolest possible air drawn though your rads.

And the wattage draw on the pump is very small. Most people who h2o cool will be running 600W psu's which should handle a quad + watercooling eq. AS for the CCL, you best pick up some PT Nuke and put 3-4 drops in your system. Dont put anymore.

The CCL's will cause algae to build up even if you use Pentosion. This will happen about 5-6 months down the road if your rig is on 24/7.


AS for cutting up the bottom. The stacker has a open bottom with a grill sealing it. The grill can be removed by taking off the screws, but the length of the opening is small for a 120x3 radiator. You need to make it longer. The nibbler takes out nibbles, while a dremel can cut the bottom. The jiggy if you have one will be the easiest.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I'll scrap the CCL then. I just wanted to make the fluid glow if possible but it's not that important. As for a jigsaw, I certainly have one, but from your picture I don't see how I could possibly get it in there to make the cuts.. I think the baseplate would hamper everything by coming into contact with the sides.

How did you secure your rad btw?

 

[JAG87]

I need to get a clapper and connect it to my scroll wheel, so I dont have to reach for the mouse. You see what I mean thecoolnessrune

I can definetely vouch, not only for the 7/16 + zipties, but for pretty much everything he says. I have no comments about anything he said. You want a high clocked quad and low temps, you do what aigomorla says. see my 3.6 ghz quad? 33 idle, 52 small prime load. core tempes are 35-40 idle, and 55-60 small prime load. thats after his consultation on parts.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: JAG87
I need to get a clapper and connect it to my scroll wheel, so I dont have to reach for the mouse. You see what I mean thecoolnessrune

I can definetely vouch, not only for the 7/16 + zipties, but for pretty much everything he says. I have no comments about anything he said. You want a high clocked quad and low temps, you do what aigomorla says. see my 3.6 ghz quad? 33 idle, 52 small prime load. core tempes are 35-40 idle, and 55-60 small prime load. thats after his consultation on parts.

What is your rad and CPU block? Did you have to cut out a hole for your rad? Another thing I thought of, since most of these high end mobos come with an entirely connected series of heatsinks and heatpipes. What do I do about VRMs etc? Obviously I can't just leave them alone.. Do I need to put a water block or heatsink on those too?

Additionally JAG, Why not just use the page up/page down keys on your keyboard like I do?

 

[JAG87]

bowed Apogee GTX. no I mounted the rad at the top of the TJ-09.

the motherboards have nice heatpipes and nice heatsinks but you are absolutely right about the PWM. I was thinking myself of buying the thermalright HR-09s, but they dont fit the evga 680i. You definitely should get after market sinks for the PWM if you intend on overclocking quads with high voltage. The PWMs is whats holding me at 3.6, my chip can do a lot more than that but the motherboard craps out above 1.5v. There is too much current going through the PWM. I believe koolance makes some PWM waterblocks, but to be honest with the reputation koolance has you might as well go with the thermalright air heatsinks.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I hope I can find a HR-09-like heatsink to fit the PWMs of the mobo I choose. Water would almost be a waste since its such a high restriction type of block for those things. What are you doing about yours?

 

[aigomorla]

well if you think about how heavy a rad is plus when its full of water, it basically sits on the floor. IT wont move unless you intentionally move it.

As for securing, i first thought of using those ziptie downs. The square mounts that you can put zip ties though. But later on i scrapped the whole thing when i swaped out that GTS for a MCR320.

Dont worry about mounting it down unless you intend on doing a lot of moving. And if you really want to do it, you could make some brackets for it to work.

As for the jiggy, you need to cut and then bend and then cut sideways. Or you can drill enough of the side to fit the jiggy. This part you really need to think creatively. Most watercooling is works of art when you construct it.

Also the advice about the shortest distance possible is the best idea. Try to keep your lengths short

 

[Marci]

Recommend running the entire rig's specs thru the following procedure: http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/...hp?act=ST&f=24&t=20277

Find out heatload, find out flowrate, find necessary CFM, buy rad and fans to suit...

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Marci
Recommend running the entire rig's specs thru the following procedure: http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/...hp?act=ST&f=24&t=20277

Find out heatload, find out flowrate, find necessary CFM, buy rad and fans to suit...

That was a REALLY great link and helped me out a lot!

for you! :thumbsup:

 

[tylerdustin2008]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Pump: Iwaki RD-30 <--- needs its own meanwell S150-24

No, not needed. Way to powerful for that small of a loop. And way to expensive.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: tylerdustin2008

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Pump: Iwaki RD-30 <--- needs its own meanwell S150-24

No, not needed. Way to powerful for that small of a loop. And way to expensive.

i gave him what upper tier is tyler.



@thecoolnessrune, marci is a vendor rep of thermochill incase you didnt know

 

[tylerdustin2008]

Originally posted by: aigomorla



i gave him what upper tier is tyler.

Yes maybe, But no one really needs that pump. Unless your rad is outside.