California To Give Illegals Drivers Licenses

[xj0hnx]

Illegals pay taxes just like the rest of us, just not income taxes (which a large amount of them wouldn't make enough to pay anyway). They pay sales taxes, excise taxes, rent to someone who pays property taxes, the businesses they support pay taxes on additional profits they generate. All the better if they also pay the fees and registrations for their vehicles they're already driving on the roads, and much much better if that means they're able to buy insurance. All the rest of this "why would they even get the license" stuff applies equally to any other person in the US - to avoid tickets, fines, having the car impounded, arrest.

As for the "we should just immediately deport them all, it's black of white" kind of ideas floating around, you guys do understand that this nation was built on illegal immigration, right? American illegal immigrants went to Mexico and took over Texas; American illegals spread to Indian land time after time after time; only by the morally absurd legality of colonialism did we take Hawaii, and would have taken Cuba except that the sugar beet industry didn't want cane sugar inside of the tariff borders.

Obviously that doesn't mean we have to just open the borders, because large blocs of anti-immigrant nativist Know-Nothings is ever bit as American, but let's also not pretend like it's an unpardonable sin that should be passed unto the fifth generation of the father. Deport criminals, deport the recently arrived; keep those who serve in the military, are economically advantageous (including college grads), some hard luck cases like old grandmas with families here; deal with the rest on a case-by-case basis. But in the meantime, make them operate according to the laws as if they were citizens, even if they don't get most of the privileges of citizens like voting.

This post is chocked full of LOL.

 

[Smoblikat]

Driving is a privilege, thats why it can be taken away. Why would we give illegals privelages that some Americans dont even have. Real Americans lost it by breaking the law, yet illegals break the law and still receive one, please explain how that makes sense.

Illegals pay taxes just like the rest of us, just not income taxes (which a large amount of them wouldn't make enough to pay anyway). They pay sales taxes, excise taxes, rent to someone who pays property taxes, the businesses they support pay taxes on additional profits they generate. All the better if they also pay the fees and registrations for their vehicles they're already driving on the roads, and much much better if that means they're able to buy insurance. All the rest of this "why would they even get the license" stuff applies equally to any other person in the US - to avoid tickets, fines, having the car impounded, arrest.

As for the "we should just immediately deport them all, it's black of white" kind of ideas floating around, you guys do understand that this nation was built on illegal immigration, right? American illegal immigrants went to Mexico and took over Texas; American illegals spread to Indian land time after time after time; only by the morally absurd legality of colonialism did we take Hawaii, and would have taken Cuba except that the sugar beet industry didn't want cane sugar inside of the tariff borders.

Obviously that doesn't mean we have to just open the borders, because large blocs of anti-immigrant nativist Know-Nothings is ever bit as American, but let's also not pretend like it's an unpardonable sin that should be passed unto the fifth generation of the father. Deport criminals, deport the recently arrived; keep those who serve in the military, are economically advantageous (including college grads), some hard luck cases like old grandmas with families here; deal with the rest on a case-by-case basis. But in the meantime, make them operate according to the laws as if they were citizens, even if they don't get most of the privileges of citizens like voting.

How could Americans spread over indian territory, if America didnt exist until after the settlers had taken over most of the territories? And how exactly could we be illegals if there were quite literally no laws?

 

[1prophet]

They would not necessarily be deported - only if they were undocumented. At least if they have drivers licenses we have a surer way of knowing their true identity (it's often the case that undocumented aliens will use a host of aliases).

I don't see how issuing drivers licenses makes it any easier for people to "avoid detection," particularly if their licenses reflect their undocumented status.

I expect many undocumented aliens would not apply for licenses, but driving without one would put them into the criminal system and, in turn, make it likelier they would ultimately be deported.

The bottom line is that I think it's in the public's best interest to have everyone on the road licensed. To me this is just common sense.

If their licenses reflect their undocumented status, why would they want to get one since it will be no different than wearing a sign "I'm illegal, please deport me", especially if they get pulled over for a minor infraction or in an accident.

 

[EagleKeeper]

If their licenses reflect their undocumented status, why would they want to get one since it will be no different than wearing a sign "I'm illegal, please deport me", especially if they get pulled over for a minor infraction or in an accident.

They know that CA will not deport anyone

 

[Capt Caveman]

Status Quo that no one has actually read the article or the bill.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are insane. I know, I know, I suffer from "truthiness" and "self hate". I don't think you even realize how bad you are, how absolutely blind by partisanship, and hate.

I am very sorry to hear that you suffer from truthiness and self hate but it is very rare for somebody of your mentality to have detected it so this is a rare and very encouraging event. I do hope that you allow me to take credit for this turn of events. It was I, I am sure you realize, who first noticed and informed you of these facts about your person, and I who also, with great depth of understanding of this psychological insight into your nature, crafted a post designed to push just those buttons, hidden from your awareness, that were sure to elicit the emotional trauma they so successfully did, thus demonstrating how easily you can be yanked around by both your truthiness and your self hate, and how devoid of reasoning capacity they leave you.

Why you were left a quivering mass that could only utter, you're insane, hateful, etc. all the things that come most handily to the unmind of a defective brain, the obvious facts, that is, about yourself.

Now, do you have anything more insane with which you want to reply? If so, don't just blather inchoately this time like you did in your last post by forgetting any reasons at all for your otherwise worthless opinion.

 

[shortylickens]

I dont care. Its already been established they are going to take over some day. I've just been slowly getting used to the idea. Even though I grumble once in a while.

 

[xj0hnx]

I am very sorry to hear that you suffer from truthiness and self hate but it is very rare for somebody of your mentality to have detected it so this is a rare and very encouraging event. I do hope that you allow me to take credit for this turn of events. It was I, I am sure you realize, who first noticed and informed you of these facts about your person, and I who also, with great depth of understanding of this psychological insight into your nature, crafted a post designed to push just those buttons, hidden from your awareness, that were sure to elicit the emotional trauma they so successfully did, thus demonstrating how easily you can be yanked around by both your truthiness and your self hate, and how devoid of reasoning capacity they leave you.

Why you were left a quivering mass that could only utter, you're insane, hateful, etc. all the things that come most handily to the unmind of a defective brain, the obvious facts, that is, about yourself.

Now, do you have anything more insane with which you want to reply? If so, don't just blather inchoately this time like you did in your last post by forgetting any reasons at all for your otherwise worthless opinion.

Awww, the pseudo-intellectual got his proverbial panties in a knot. I guess your condition blinded you to the message in my post, as you are still regurgitating the same old "truthiness", "self hate" idiocy, wrapped neatly in your warm, comfy, hyper-partisan blanket.

 

[Moonbeam]

He's mostly incoherent, not sure if I'd chalk that up to partisanship or just lack of the necessary cognitive processes.

Not sure if you were born in Dumbfuckistan or just dropped on your head, but if a brain like a car required a license to operate you'd be tagged for defective equipment.

 

[xj0hnx]

Not sure if you were born in Dumbfuckistan or just dropped on your head, but if a brain like a car required a license to operate you'd be tagged for defective equipment.

Hahaha, uh-oh, sounds like Moonbat is getting all riled up, watch out!!!

 

[Moonbeam]

Awww, the pseudo-intellectual got his proverbial panties in a knot. I guess your condition blinded you to the message in my post, as you are still regurgitating the same old "truthiness", "self hate" idiocy, wrapped neatly in your warm, comfy, hyper-partisan blanket.

Not at all. I just told you that you can't reason and you reply with a post absent of it as I predicted. What's to get upset about. You're the one that's pathetic. You need to get over your conceit that the fact you chose to be brain dead has some big emotional trauma on other people. Lots and lots of others have never learned to think. You're just a big reaction machine and I know how to show that to other people so that maybe they WILL think. Of course it will have to be folk who would feel embarrassment acting as you do, and folk who have some humility. OK, the floor is open for more of your irrational thinking.

 

[berzerker60]

Please feel free to show us what Indian immigration laws white people broke

How could Americans spread over indian territory, if America didnt exist until after the settlers had taken over most of the territories? And how exactly could we be illegals if there were quite literally no laws?

1) There were immigration laws in Mexico that Texans broke regularly. I can find some basic Texas history for you if you don't believe me.
2) Laws can exist outside of what's formally written down. In the legal system we've inherited, these are referred to as 'common law' and were just as binding for most of Western European history as what's formally written out somewhere. The lack of written laws by Indian tribes doesn't make their formalized customs any less binding or important.
3) "America didn't exist until after the settlers had taken over most of the territories" only if you define America by the history of the white people living in it. Even in legalistic terms, the US bought a huge chunk of land from France in the Louisiana Purchase that was mostly occupied by American Indians. It wasn't settled by white settlers until years or decades later.
4) http://future.state.gov/when/timeline/1830_timeline/indian_treaties_and_the_removal_act_of_1830.html (or any decent fourth grade history textbook):

The story of westward expansion by European Americans is a basic theme of the American experience, but it also is a history of Indian removal from their traditional lands. Indians lost their lands by purchase and through war, disease, and even extermination, but many transfers of Indian land were formalized by treaty. The Constitution of 1789 empowered Congress to "regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes. Federal policy regarded each tribe as a sovereign entity capable of signing binding treaties with the U.S. Government. In the first 40 years of the new republic, the United States signed multiple treaties with Indian tribes, which usually followed a basic pattern: the signatory tribe withdrew to a prescribed reservation and in return the federal government promised to provide supplies, food, and often an annuity. In 1830, Congress chose to disregard Indian treaty guarantees when it passed the Indian Removal Act, a bill engineered by President Andrew Jackson. Despite its language suggesting a voluntary and fair "exchange" of lands, the act opened the door for the militias of trans-Appalachian and Southern States to simply drive the Indians across the Mississippi by force. The Indians' destination was to be an "Indian Territory" set aside west of Iowa, Missouri, and Arkansas.

The Cherokee nation resisted, however, challenging in court the Georgia laws that restricted their freedoms on tribal lands. In its 1831 ruling on Cherokee Nation v. the State of Georgia, the Supreme Court addressed the question of whether native tribes could be treated as "foreign nations." It decided that they should be counted rather as wards of the federal government but the following year ruled that they were, indeed, sovereign and immune from Georgia laws. President Jackson, famous from his "Seminole Wars" against the Indians in Georgia and Florida and an ardent defender of States' rights, nonetheless, refused to heed the court's decision. He obtained the signature of a Cherokee chief agreeing to relocation in the Treaty of New Enchola, which Congress ratified against the protests of Daniel Webster and Henry Clay in 1835. The Cherokee signing party did not represent the vast majority of Cherokees. When the followers of Principal Chief John Ross tried desperately to hold onto their land, Jackson ordered military action in 1838. Under the guns of federal troops and Georgia State militia, the Cherokee tribe made their trek to the dry plains across the Mississippi. Thousands died en route from the brutal conditions of the "Trail of Tears."

The U.S. Government's inability and unwillingness to abide by its treaty obligations with Indian tribes was clearly related to an insatiable demand for cheap land for European settlers. To make matter more difficult, Indians generally had a different concept of land ownership than Europeans, emphasizing land use for hunting, farming, or dwelling for the tribe, but not recognizing the concept of individual ownership. Indian society was loose, decentralized, democratic, and nonauthoritarian where "chiefs" were often men of respect and informal authority but not designated by the tribe to make decisions. The result was that treaties were often signed with Indian leaders who did not have the authority of the tribe. Whether the system of Indian treaties were ever meant to work is a matter of debate, but in reality, most Indian treaties were broken.

Jackson literally ignored the Supreme Court decision and drove Indians out of the lands they had binding treaties with Congress to possess, killing thousands of them in a brutal march to lands of a completely different type than they'd ever occupied before.

Then later generations drove them off of THOSE lands, eventually confining them to small reservations on the shittiest land available.

This post is chocked full of LOL.

Well argued rebuttal.

 

[Moonbeam]

Hahaha, uh-oh, sounds like Moonbat is getting all riled up, watch out!!!

The fork has been stuck in this xclown and he's done. Bye!

 

[xj0hnx]

Not at all. I just told you that you can't reason and you reply with a post absent of it as I predicted. What's to get upset about. You're the one that's pathetic. You need to get over your conceit that the fact you chose to be brain dead has some big emotional trauma on other people. Lots and lots of others have never learned to think. You're just a big reaction machine and I know how to show that to other people so that maybe they WILL think. Of course it will have to be folk who would feel embarrassment acting as you do, and folk who have some humility. OK, the floor is open for more of your irrational thinking.

What you fail to realize through the fog of your partisan hatred, is that your post are devoid of rational thought to begin with, so any replies to you are based on that. You've got a special skill, short bus special, but special none the less, the ability to say so much, and yet say so little. Truthiness this, self-hate that, republicans suck, conservatives are the evil, and that is just about the sum of your being with some flaming, and angry words thrown in to taste, basically ...a whole lot of nothing.

 

[Incorruptible]

Cant beleive people support this idea, they broke the law by coming here illegally. They should be deported

 

[nehalem256]

1) There were immigration laws in Mexico that Texans broke regularly. I can find some basic Texas history for you if you don't believe me.
2) Laws can exist outside of what's formally written down. In the legal system we've inherited, these are referred to as 'common law' and were just as binding for most of Western European history as what's formally written out somewhere. The lack of written laws by Indian tribes doesn't make their formalized customs any less binding or important.
3) "America didn't exist until after the settlers had taken over most of the territories" only if you define America by the history of the white people living in it. Even in legalistic terms, the US bought a huge chunk of land from France in the Louisiana Purchase that was mostly occupied by American Indians. It wasn't settled by white settlers until years or decades later.
4) http://future.state.gov/when/timeline/1830_timeline/indian_treaties_and_the_removal_act_of_1830.html (or any decent fourth grade history textbook):

Jackson literally ignored the Supreme Court decision and drove Indians out of the lands they had binding treaties with Congress to possess, killing thousands of them in a brutal march to lands of a completely different type than they'd ever occupied before.

Then later generations drove them off of THOSE lands, eventually confining them to small reservations on the shittiest land available.


Well argued rebuttal.

Seems to me like it was more a war against Indians than illegal immigration.

Now if you want to argue those are the same. Then I would say that the Governor of California is giving aid and comfort to foreign invaders and should therefore be charged with treason.

 

[xj0hnx]

Driving is a privilege, thats why it can be taken away. Why would we give illegals privelages that some Americans dont even have. Real Americans lost it by breaking the law, yet illegals break the law and still receive one, please explain how that makes sense.

Because dude, they pay sales tax, and a few hundred years ago some settlers took over Texas, sheesh.

 

[Ackmed]

No problem found. If they're eligible to get a work permit and work in this country then they should be eligible to get a driver's license.

They're illegal. They shouldn't be eligible for anything but a one way trip back to Mexico. But too many people now days don't have a backbone.

 

[cybrsage]

It is in everybody's best interest, regardless of where they stand on immigration, that all drivers on the road be required to be licensed. That has nothing to do with moving undocumented aliens toward citizenship, necessarily. The idea that it's preferable to have undocumented aliens driving without licenses or insurance, to me, defies common sense.

It would be far better to enforce existing law and deport all those who come in to get a drivers license while being here in violation of the law.

I did not know lawyers supported people breaking laws.

 

[Capt Caveman]

They're illegal. They shouldn't be eligible for anything but a one way trip back to Mexico. But too many people now days don't have a backbone.

If they have a work permit, they're not illegal.

 

[Moonbeam]

What you fail to realize through the fog of your partisan hatred, is that your post are devoid of rational thought to begin with, so any replies to you are based on that. You've got a special skill, short bus special, but special none the less, the ability to say so much, and yet say so little. Truthiness this, self-hate that, republicans suck, conservatives are the evil, and that is just about the sum of your being with some flaming, and angry words thrown in to taste, basically ...a whole lot of nothing.

Hey, this is great, some attempt at reasoning. Thank you. Now my posts may in fact be devoid or rational thought, but they do have reasoning. I go from one thing, like Mexicans have better family values than Republicans to various conclusions. This is reasoning. It may not be rational thinking because the reasoning may be defective, but your job is not to tell me I am insane because what I say irritates you, like it wasn't specifically designed to challenge the hypocrisy that conservatives have the high ground when it comes to values, and also reveals their bigotry when it is suggested that a brown person may have even better morals, but to argue whether what I said is true or not. I believe that Mexicans show a profound sense of family values and I love them for it. I think they aren't hypocrites about Republicans as Republicans are hypocrites about them. You can disagree, but calling me insane is just your stupid opinion, stupid because you don't give any reasons for believing as you do whereas I did.

Again, just how do you want to be informed that you don't function rationally? Do you think you are emotionally open to such information, or do you think it more likely you are, if I may say so, insanely defended.

The reason I have no compunction to make outrageous and offensive claims about your mental state is because you have the mental state I say you do and you are in denial. But when you get poked in the ass you respond irrationally just as predicted, proving my case exactly.

Your partisan hate is responsible for the fact, by the way, that I am always reassuring conservatives that they can't help thinking as they do, that they are defensive and won't let the truth in because it hurts their ego, and that they had to get good at this as children to survive. You think the point is to hate, because that's what you do, when the point is to find a way to keep you altered reality thinkers from destroying the world. You guys are the ones who left reality and are insane and politically dangerously so. This is a fact and you can't see it. You have a drivers license and yet you are headed straight for the cliff while worried some illegal Mexican will vote to turn the wheel. You are bat shit crazy and as long as you are threatening to destroy this beautiful world for future children, I'm not going away. I am a lot more moral than you think you are.

Again, thanks for putting some thoughts into your post.

 

[Moonbeam]

Fucking liberals and their grays, always looking at the issue from every side thinking utility instead of absolutes, always confusing and messing up the facts. Illegals are here illegally and shouldn't be. Throw them out. Fuck logic, fuck economic well being, fuck compassion, fuck common sense, fuck everybody. They are illegal, end of story. God damn it, why can't you fuckers be simple minded like me. My logic is impeckerheaded.

 

[BudAshes]

We need to make getting a license harder. It's a joke right now.

 

[nehalem256]

If they have a work permit, they're not illegal.

You mean except for Obama granting work permits to illegal immigrants?

 

[hal2kilo]

Op title is flawed. I doubt very much that California is giving drivers licenses to anyone. I'm sure you must apply and pay for them.