Nobody. The federal government never needs a bailout by definition because they control the currency.
California's problem is it's horrible constitution. California's problems will never entirely go away until that piece of shit is scrapped and redone. It requires only a simple majority to pass new spending, but a 2/3rds majority to pass the taxes to pay for it. On top of that the state has the retarded direct democracy system which leads to tons of insane and stupid mandates being placed on the legislature.
When was the last time a state scrap its own constitution? I just don't see California would scrap its constitution at all. Our system is hard to change, which could be good or part. I think we'd live with this system forever.
California's constitution is not hard to change at all. In fact it's incredibly easy to change, which is part of the problem. It's been amended over 500 times in about 160 years. In contrast, the federal constitution has been amended 27 times in 220 years.
:Q
Wow, that's a lot. I can see how that would cause problems. The state (or country) constitution is supposed to be a stable bedrock that the legal system is built on. If it's getting changed willy nilly all the time, there is no stable bedrock.....
The majority to spend, 2/3 to tax is a dumb combination. I'd put it at 2/3's for both, that way only the things that really need done, the things everyone can agree on, will get spent for and funded.
Economy is down in California partly due to the sheer expense of operating here. Higher expenses all around - state income tax, property tax, high sales taxes, got to pay your employees more due to higher cost of living, no wonder businesses or at least parts of some are leaving the state to where they can operate cheaper.
Can't wait to see this either. The dying gasp of the liberal vomit and people who vote for things like banning black cars due to the "environmental impact".
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
- 0
- 0
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Yep. Nissan moved their corporate HQ to Nashville (Franklin) a year or two ago and I'll bet this was one of the primary reasons. They will not be the last.
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
- 126
i'm honestly amazed that california's constitution has been amended more than texas's. i would have sworn we'd have you beat. of course, it's also a bit newer, so maybe we've got a higher amendment rate. 456 amendments in 133 years.
alabama has both beat, having been amended about 800 times since it's adoption in 1901.
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
- 126
CARB was looking into rules requiring a 20% reflectance to help reduce the amount of air conditioning needed. you can't make black with 20% reflectance.
CARB decided to drop that idea and is now looking into reflective glass (which would probably be more effective anyway)
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,189
- 4,855
- 126
Forced balanced budget is the real answer to your question. They are forced to hire people in good times (since they have to balance the budget and not run a surplus). Then in the bad times, they face this type of problem. Due to the forced balanced budget, they have no reserves to weather the storm.
With non-balanced budgets, they can save up a bit in good times (ie not hire as many people). Then in bad times they can use the reserves (ie not raise taxes in a recession or fire people in a recession). You'd think spending less and not raising taxes would be a good thing, but not to those who want balanced budgets.
So this is why we have Prop 1A which will create a rainy day fund =)
Does balancing a budget imply no savings at all? I thought balancing a budget implies eliminating deficit spending. Sure it's term balancing implies keeping the two sides equal, but I thought the term itself really only matters on spending only what you can afford. BTW, I doubt this is the real problem. It's not like other states try to horde up as much as their revenue as they can to stash it in some 5% return investment like we humans do. It's a matter of making cuts.
A lot of people blame CA's mess on Arnold who cut some taxes and fees here and there which really cut a lot of the revenue. Of course I also believe that we just spend too damn much. EVEN if you break even every year, if you have a bad year, you better cut spending. Just like the rest of us. If you lose your job, you better cut your spending habits. Maybe you can dip into your savings a bit, but is it ideal? No. Don't do it unless you HAVE to. And I'm certain CA just dipped too much into our rainy day fund.
:disgust:
It is far from the best state (and I've lived in CA my whole life but been everywhere on Earth).
Forget Republicans and Democrats. The name tag only goes on only for which dodgeball team is going to pick you based on immigration and taxes. Ask any young Republican if they think Arnold is a fiscal conservative and milk will shoot out their nose. Yeah he tried to fight the unions but the LA Time pulled the phenomenon of anger routine and you saw what that did to his poll numbers. I loved the man after True Lies but now I'd like to see him forcibly ejected. I support his green push and don't really give a rat?s ass about the whole marijuana thing (even as a physician). The man has no sense of how to keep a state in budget (surprised he has as many business ventures as he does).
I think the state was doing OK until Duke left. After that the State Senate went nuts with spending. Just look at the budgets for the last 10 years. Roughly 48 to 101 Billion. Using rule of 7 their seeing a linear 7% growth rate - who the hell thinks that's sustainable? Prop 13 had no effect on all those idiots flipping houses every 3 months. Add to that the US economy was growing well and the state/local municipalities invest in those markets. Wasn't it Long Beach City that lost 43 Million to Lehman Bros alone!?!
So w/o regard to acknowledging the aberrant growth the state allocated the money faster than it came in w/ new programs. If you burn up the fuel in the rocket, the rocket has to come down. No rainy day fund and no control on growth = massive deficit. That is irrespective of republican/democrat/smurf or whatever platform you're on. There were a couple years in there where the number of kids enrolled in the public school system decreased by 7% (random flux) and yet the school budget went up 5% for those years - teacher salaries didn't go up 14%. Cost of paper and electricity didn't go up 14% (well electricity might have lol). The money was leaked somewhere....
I'm not going to go into a rant on where the money is going - that's a whole other thread on its own. Arnie said he would use line item and I have yet to see him use it successfully.
And if I'm not mistaken isn't he and the "CA Dream Team" as he calls them supporting 1A-1F which even taken in for inflation would be the largest 1 time tax increases in US history? Didn't the CA Republican party fund those props (although now they wag their tales the other way).
I'm not going to even talk about the Dems and their BASS Ackwards leaders. Watching these prop 1A-1F commercials showing kids dying, teachers and students suffering, cops needing help is just pathetic. I went to public school and will send my kids to public school. I did police ride-alongs as a teenager. I just stomach the lies coming from this side (nor the hypocrisy coming from the other side).
The state is running like MLK hospital. They need to hire a CFO from one of those Silicon Valley or Irvine companies to actually take over financial control of the spending. Someone who will understand why I refuse to buy a LCD from Newegg using my after tax income and yet have to pay a Sales Tax of 9.25% and a Recycling Tax of $8 - I can buy the same monitor shipped to me here in Boston, MA (at a conference) and only pay 5% sales tax (I think the recycling tax should be a national program).
Last year I was doing ER call at my local hospital (meaning I was required to admit and take of patients until time of discharge). More than 70% of the patients were cash (ie had no insurance) and some obviously were from the MLK system (I'm including MediCal in those numbers since i haven't been paid by them in 2 years lol). Why should I be personally responsible for sucking up the mess that the state/local governments failed at. Closing MLK saved LA county 225 Million per year - and pushed those costs onto the private sector. Me being the private sector. I took care of those patients for 2 years but finally got fed-up w/ the treats of law-suits and threats of physical violence and overly-demanding patients - anybody working w/ MediCal patients can attest to this as a generality. LA County has no plans to push for MLK to reopen. Good job there Maxine! What your little buddy Obama (see how many visits her office has made to WH) can't pull some strings?
So if I'm paying more in taxes and not seeing it come through in the social services sector (which I directly work in as a physician) then where in the world is the $ going? A simple look at budget will reveal the porkage....
It is far from the best state (and I've lived in CA my whole life but been everywhere on Earth).
Forget Republicans and Democrats. The name tag only goes on only for which dodgeball team is going to pick you based on immigration and taxes. Ask any young Republican if they think Arnold is a fiscal conservative and milk will shoot out their nose. Yeah he tried to fight the unions but the LA Time pulled the phenomenon of anger routine and you saw what that did to his poll numbers. I loved the man after True Lies but now I'd like to see him forcibly ejected. I support his green push and don't really give a rat?s ass about the whole marijuana thing (even as a physician). The man has no sense of how to keep a state in budget (surprised he has as many business ventures as he does).
I think the state was doing OK until Duke left. After that the State Senate went nuts with spending. Just look at the budgets for the last 10 years. Roughly 48 to 101 Billion. Using rule of 7 their seeing a linear 7% growth rate - who the hell thinks that's sustainable? Prop 13 had no effect on all those idiots flipping houses every 3 months. Add to that the US economy was growing well and the state/local municipalities invest in those markets. Wasn't it Long Beach City that lost 43 Million to Lehman Bros alone!?!
So w/o regard to acknowledging the aberrant growth the state allocated the money faster than it came in w/ new programs. If you burn up the fuel in the rocket, the rocket has to come down. No rainy day fund and no control on growth = massive deficit. That is irrespective of republican/democrat/smurf or whatever platform you're on. There were a couple years in there where the number of kids enrolled in the public school system decreased by 7% (random flux) and yet the school budget went up 5% for those years - teacher salaries didn't go up 14%. Cost of paper and electricity didn't go up 14% (well electricity might have lol). The money was leaked somewhere....
I'm not going to go into a rant on where the money is going - that's a whole other thread on its own. Arnie said he would use line item and I have yet to see him use it successfully.
And if I'm not mistaken isn't he and the "CA Dream Team" as he calls them supporting 1A-1F which even taken in for inflation would be the largest 1 time tax increases in US history? Didn't the CA Republican party fund those props (although now they wag their tales the other way).
I'm not going to even talk about the Dems and their BASS Ackwards leaders. Watching these prop 1A-1F commercials showing kids dying, teachers and students suffering, cops needing help is just pathetic. I went to public school and will send my kids to public school. I did police ride-alongs as a teenager. I just stomach the lies coming from this side (nor the hypocrisy coming from the other side).
The state is running like MLK hospital. They need to hire a CFO from one of those Silicon Valley or Irvine companies to actually take over financial control of the spending. Someone who will understand why I refuse to buy a LCD from Newegg using my after tax income and yet have to pay a Sales Tax of 9.25% and a Recycling Tax of $8 - I can buy the same monitor shipped to me here in Boston, MA (at a conference) and only pay 5% sales tax (I think the recycling tax should be a national program).
Last year I was doing ER call at my local hospital (meaning I was required to admit and take of patients until time of discharge). More than 70% of the patients were cash (ie had no insurance) and some obviously were from the MLK system (I'm including MediCal in those numbers since i haven't been paid by them in 2 years lol). Why should I be personally responsible for sucking up the mess that the state/local governments failed at. Closing MLK saved LA county 225 Million per year - and pushed those costs onto the private sector. Me being the private sector. I took care of those patients for 2 years but finally got fed-up w/ the treats of law-suits and threats of physical violence and overly-demanding patients - anybody working w/ MediCal patients can attest to this as a generality. LA County has no plans to push for MLK to reopen. Good job there Maxine! What your little buddy Obama (see how many visits her office has made to WH) can't pull some strings?
So if I'm paying more in taxes and not seeing it come through in the social services sector (which I directly work in as a physician) then where in the world is the $ going? A simple look at budget will reveal the porkage....
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,189
- 4,855
- 126
That is the problem with balanced budgets. You really can't ever cut taxes. If you do cut taxes, you'll feel the massive pain once a recession hits. It just happened to Arnold. It happened in the past several times. It'll happen again. In that case, balanced budgets mean either (a) never cutting taxes or (b) reoccuring budget disasters.
Plus, I highly doubt that the people pushing balanced budgets would accept routine surplusses year after year. Their whole purpose in balancing budgets was to reduce taxes, and surplusses mean taxes are too high. So, in practice, we get the problem that I described. California is basically bound by its constitution to hire people in good times and fire them in bad times. Neither of which is a good thing.
A budget that is balanced over every 10-20 year period = wonderful. A budget that is balanced each and every year = very stupid, ill-thought plan.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
What about New York?
California is a fvcking joke, but NY seems in a hurry to copy it. Taxes are too high here and businesses and people just aren't moving here.
For CA the reduction in taxes is a huge hit, but it is for the federal gov, too. I don't believe gov budgets are fully taking into account how severe the hit on their tax income is going to be for this year, partly because of unemployment/GDP shrinkage, but also nobody is paying taxes on capital gains because they don't really have any!
Some interesting points, though I don't find it easy to get a coherent position on the state from them. Don't look to me to defend Maxine Waters much.
Instead of the rhetorical 'look at the budget', some summary of what it shows is useful.
On Prop 13, the effects go back decades - it was driven by some wealthier people who wanted simply to cut their commercial tax rates, screw the state budget, and they added on residential property to get the popular support needed to pass it, again screw the state budget, and the result was an inability for the state to pay for its programs anda variety of slashed programs and deficits since. It was the same mentality as the Reagan/Bushes pro-deficit policies for keeping public support at the expense of the budget.
You link property flippers and prop 13 when you say prop 13 'didn't prevent the flipping' but I'm not sure what the point you were making is - prop 13 is unrelated to that.
And there's not that much inherently wrong with property flipping, it's just a normal market-based activity.
I'm sympathetic to the medical mess you are caught up in - I'd like to see a single payer UHC, but Obama is supporting something in the middle, hopefully it'll help.
I can't comment on the MLK situation - we just do have a mess on our hands with the uninsured.
We disagree on CA still being definitely the greatest state, though - but southern CA has a lot more problems it seems than northern. Southern CA is a mixed bag. Some wonderful things - remarkable in terms of the area (beaches, mountains, etc.), culture, entertainment, dining, etc., but with big overcrowding, gangs/poverty areas, traffic etc.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
I think another big problem with strictly balanced budgets is that they tend to exaggerate cycles.
In good times employment is high yet CA must go out and hire more because of it's increased revenue (same with other non-employemnt related spending). While the Fed would be raising rates to cool things off, CA's policy would be the oppoiste under their balanced budget. Tight labor maket means increased wages etc all encouraging more inflation etc.
In bad times, CA has got to cut back leaving more unemployed etc, exactly the wrong fiscal policy jusy exacerbating the problem further.
Properly counter-acting cycles is what you want, not exacerbating them.
Fern
Republicans will (I should say have)bankrupt us with wars and no regulation for greed
Democrats will (I should say further) bankrupt us with taxes
Democrats will (I should say further) bankrupt us with taxes
Someone has to pay all of the bills on our national credit card. Republicans have pushed a fantasy that you can have everything and someone else will pay for it.
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