California fires raging strong.

[Greenman]

That's what Trump said, anyway. Don't need no stinking international climate accord or world health organization, either.

I read about the issue over thirty years ago. The prediction then was that at some point the entire pacific northwest was going to burn. The issue isn't new, and it's not going to get any better because no one wants to pay for what needs to be done. California is burning right now, the cost will be billions. That won't change because it's easier to finance a disaster than pay for maintenance.

I guess blaming Trump for that makes you feel vindicated, but it doesn't change anything, it doesn't move us toward a process of limiting the scope of the fires. We need to get past shouting "TRUMP!!!!" and look at proper land management.

 

[herm0016]

Colorado has many fires as well. similar scenes in our town with smoke and ash. i was wearing my N99 mask all the time outside when it was bad. 2 of the 10 largest fires ever in CO are still growing. many structures burned, 1000s displaced.

 

[herm0016]

yep.

I read about the issue over thirty years ago. The prediction then was that at some point the entire pacific northwest was going to burn. The issue isn't new, and it's not going to get any better because no one wants to pay for what needs to be done. California is burning right now, the cost will be billions. That won't change because it's easier to finance a disaster than pay for maintenance.

I guess blaming Trump for that makes you feel vindicated, but it doesn't change anything, it doesn't move us toward a process of limiting the scope of the fires. We need to get past shouting "TRUMP!!!!" and look at proper land management.

but that's no fun. it's been an on going issue for decades, but its all trump's fault. Climate change is a factor, so is Forest management, population density and other factors.

 

[Jhhnn]

Colorado firefighters got a break with a very early snow storm & cold temps-

Cold, rain and snow boost firefighting efforts on Colorado wildfires

The cold front that moved into Colorado Monday night brought freezing temperatures, rain and snow to many of the wildfires burning in Colorado – a great boost to firefighters who have been battling the large fires in hot and dry conditions for weeks.

www.thedenverchannel.com

We've had a very hot dry summer, much like California.

 

[Vic]

Poor forest management is in that mix as well.

Forest fires are natural and desirable. The notion that properly managed forests shouldn't or won't burn is a bullshit holdout of Smokey the Bear pseudoscience, which is in fact one of the reasons why we're seeing more severe forest fires in recent years.

 

[Vic]

yep.



but that's no fun. it's been an on going issue for decades, but its all trump's fault. Climate change is a factor, so is Forest management, population density and other factors.

It's not Trump's fault that there are forest fires. It is Trump's fault for pushing the old Smokey the Bear forest-fires-are-preventable bullshit for political reasons. That's a difference that those lacking critical thinking skills might miss.

And as I have already pointed out in this thread, the wildfires in the public forests aren't the real problem here. It's the fires on private lands in the close-in rural areas, fueled by hot dry weather and high winds, that are threatening homes and lives.

 

[hal2kilo]

There is no way I'm going to open the house with this air quality. It's like being inside a campfire. Thankfully, I have AC.

That's year 3 of my upgrade plan. Did not really have to have AC when I first moved up here in 86. People may not be aware of how the pacific marine climate works, but generally, it can be quite dry in the summers here, although, it used to be that some summers just did not really make much of a showing, lots of cool cloudy days in between the sunny ones. But, I'd say we haven't had one of those summers for at least 10 years and each summer the hot spells last longer, get much hotter and very dry.

 

[UNCjigga]

There’s a fun meme going around on Twitter—“Is it Blade Runner 2049 or is it San Francisco 2020?”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303875575745052672

 

[hal2kilo]

There’s a fun meme going around on Twitter—“Is it Blade Runner 2049 or is it San Francisco 2020?”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303875575745052672

Looks like Trumps tan sprayer's out of control.

 

[herm0016]

@Vic most fires are human caused. that makes them preventable. Ole smokey is not bullshit. only you (humans) can prevent (85% of) forest fires.

found stats for you: https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation.htm#:~:text=Nearly 85 percent* of wildland,and intentional acts of arson.&text=Lightning is one of the two natural causes of fires.

critical thinking skills include real data.

 

[UNCjigga]

If only society didn’t put such a high value on birth gender, some of these fires could be avoided!

 

[K1052]

Ole smokey is not bullshit. only you (humans) can prevent (85% of) forest fires.

It's like DARE for the natural world.

Managing people is always going to be much harder (or impossible) than mitigating the worst negative effects of more realistic policy.

 

[herm0016]

It's like DARE for the natural world.

Managing people is always going to be much harder (or impossible) than mitigating the worst negative effects of more realistic policy.

it certainly does not hurt to have reminders.
What do you propose is a good realistic policy to prevent human caused forest fires?

Obv. climate change is making them worse. but i want to know what your policy is to directly prevent 85% of forest fires. not some politically motivated attack on smokey the bear.

seems to me, when smokey had better PR, there were less wild fires, but im having a hard time finding any data that can connect the two.

 

[hal2kilo]

Maybe because I was raised in the DC radio market, but Smokey the bear ads were on a lot. One of the local announcer's on the most popular morning radio show (which my parents listened to) in DC was the original voices of Smokey the Bear. I think it was WMAL and the announcer was Jack Weaver.

 

[herm0016]

Maybe because I was raised in the DC radio market, but Smokey the bear ads were on a lot. One of the local announcer's on the most popular morning radio show (which my parents listened to) in DC was the original voices of Smokey the Bear. I think it was WMAL and the announcer was Jack Weaver.

I remember posters, tv ads, and all that too, but have not seen any of it in a while, save for a poster here and there in a national park and the fire weather markers outside the NPS offices.

 

[K1052]

it certainly does not hurt to have reminders.
What do you propose is a good realistic policy to prevent human caused forest fires?

Obv. climate change is making them worse. but i want to know what your policy is to directly prevent 85% of forest fires. not some politically motivated attack on smokey the bear.

seems to me, when smokey had better PR, there were less wild fires, but im having a hard time finding any data that can connect the two.

Forest fires in themselves are not bad and need to happen as we all seem to agree. The problem is the forests are bursting with tons of super dry fuel from bad management practices and climate change while people have built communities into the interface zone in the intervening decades.

A small human caused fire is FAR less dangerous if the overall management of the above is good. We're not going to stop human caused fires with PR. The PR isn't bad it's just fundamentally limited by human nature and we need to recognize that.

I'd probably do

Lots more prescribed burns when the entire place isn't a tinderbox.
A shitload of brush clearing. Property owners (private, state, and federal) should be required to maintain theirs to rigid standards
Updated building codes that require cost effective retrofits (ember guards, etc) and major changes for new construction.
Cut down all the god damned eucalyptus trees and replant less incendiary bomb like species.

 

[UNCjigga]

Forest fires in themselves are not bad and need to happen as we all seem to agree. The problem is the forests are bursting with tons of super dry fuel from bad management practices and climate change while people have built communities into the interface zone in the intervening decades.

A small human caused fire is FAR less dangerous if the overall management of the above is good. We're not going to stop human caused fires with PR. The PR isn't bad it's just fundamentally limited by human nature and we need to recognize that.

I'd probably do

Lots more prescribed burns when the entire place isn't a tinderbox.
A shitload of brush clearing. Property owners (private, state, and federal) should be required to maintain theirs to rigid standards
Updated building codes that require cost effective retrofits (ember guards, etc) and major changes for new construction.
Cut down all the god damned eucalyptus trees and replant less incendiary bomb like species.

You forgot sweeping the forest floors.

 

[Vic]

It's like DARE for the natural world.

Managing people is always going to be much harder (or impossible) than mitigating the worst negative effects of more realistic policy.

Yeah, but then who could you blame?

 

[woolfe9998]

No sun again today. Just a grey haze and the smell of burnt wood.

At least it's cooled off. I know it's too much to ask but some rain would be a godsend right now.

 

[Vic]

That's year 3 of my upgrade plan. Did not really have to have AC when I first moved up here in 86. People may not be aware of how the pacific marine climate works, but generally, it can be quite dry in the summers here, although, it used to be that some summers just did not really make much of a showing, lots of cool cloudy days in between the sunny ones. But, I'd say we haven't had one of those summers for at least 10 years and each summer the hot spells last longer, get much hotter and very dry.

Oh I know. Portland gets hotter summers than the Puget Sound area, but still I never thought of AC as a requirement for living here until about 12 or so years ago. It used to be just a few days of really hot weather in the summers, now it can be weeks.

 

[hal2kilo]

Oh I know. Portland gets hotter summers than the Puget Sound area, but still I never thought of AC as a requirement for living here until about 12 or so years ago. It used to be just a few days of really hot weather in the summers, now it can be weeks.

You guys really do get hotter down there. Many of times I say to myself, well at least it's not Portland.
Medford is blowing my mind.

 

[Vic]

Roughly half of Clackamas county, OR is now under level 3 evacuation orders.

ArcGIS Web Application

ccgis-mapservice.maps.arcgis.com

 

[K1052]

It seems rumors circulating on social media that the forest fires are arson is causing lots of people to call 911 to ask questions.

Same thing like with the Soros shipping in ANTIFA on busses to rural towns to burn them down.

Facebook was a mistake.

 

[Muse]

Colorado has many fires as well. similar scenes in our town with smoke and ash. i was wearing my N99 mask all the time outside when it was bad. 2 of the 10 largest fires ever in CO are still growing. many structures burned, 1000s displaced.

Is it possible to procure N99 masks now? I have a stash of N95's. I wanted to skate the streets yesterday and today, but didn't for the air quality. Well, yesterday it was too dark!

This is all happening pretty fast. I haven't had my finger on the pulse, I'm not a professional environmentalist, climatologist but have been paying attention since "An Inconvenient Truth." I have read a handful of books about our impending catastrophe, which I like to call the "global warming crisis." Because it's a crisis, not an issue. Not something to doubt. It's real, it's happening, it's getting worse all the time and right now at a pace where you can't dismiss it without coming off as an asshole or at least just plain stupid.

I checked about an hour ago and the AQI in my neighborhood was 234, which is Very Unhealthy. There's ash all over the place, and it's getting thicker and thicker. The word you kept hearing around here yesterday was "apocalyptic." It was much darker than the darkest day I've ever seen here and I've lived here over 50 years. It was like an eclipse of the sun, but all day long, from sunrise to sunset. We're having the worst wildfire season ever this year. Global warming is plain to people on the west coast right now. People on the east coast, a lot of them, don't know yet. When will they? Will it take an unprecedented barrage of hurricanes and/or tornadoes? What weather events on the east coast will finally hammer home the realization that the global warming crisis is the existential crisis of our time, of all time if it turns out to be the one that destroys our civilization, which it very well may be.

 

[Muse]

@Vic most fires are human caused. that makes them preventable. Ole smokey is not bullshit. only you (humans) can prevent (85% of) forest fires.

found stats for you: https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation.htm#:~:text=Nearly 85 percent* of wildland,and intentional acts of arson.&text=Lightning is one of the two natural causes of fires.

critical thinking skills include real data.

I think most of the wildfires in CA right now were started by lightening from the deteriorating hurricane that passed up from Mexico in the middle of August. We had what I think was an unprecedented dry lightening storm of considerable ferocity here in the Bay Area on August 16. It was similar over much of the state and many of the resulting fires are still burning.