California Democrats Look To Ban All Semi-Auto Rifles W/ Magazines

[Fenixgoon]

Name a real life case.

The only ones I know of is George Zimmerman, who fired *one* shot and Bernard Goetz, who would have killed all 4 (as opposed to wound) if he had more than 6 bullets.

real life case? clearly gang members and drug dealers don't have issues shooting people, given the number of drug-related homicides that occur each year.

 

[desura]

real life case? clearly gang members and drug dealers don't have issues shooting people, given the number of drug-related homicides that occur each year.

name a real life case.

 

[Fenixgoon]

name a real life case.

fine. how about the woman who sheltered herself and her children in her attic, and the man didn't flee until she shot at him 6 times and only got him with grazing wounds.

defensive isntance of a weapon not intimidating the assailant.

and also:

Banning them will stop the wrong people from having them.

All the mass shooters bought their weapons legally, and so used the max firearm allowable by law. In other words, if the law were so easy to circumvent, we'd see more murders and mass shootings using machine guns, or rocket launchers, or grenades, or other illegal weapons.

This doesn't happen because those weapons are illegal, and the few that are around are prohibitively expensive. But if they were legal and easily available, they'd definitely be used to kill people.

absolute bullshit. lanza killed his mother and stole her weapon. NOT LEGALLY OBTAINED.

cho used 2 pistols. not the "max firearm allowed by law"

your statements are patently false and misleading.

 

[desura]

fine. how about the woman who sheltered herself and her children in her attic, and the man didn't flee until she shot at him 6 times and only got him with grazing wounds.

defensive isntance of a weapon not intimidating the assailant.

and also:



absolute bullshit. lanza killed his mother and stole her weapon. NOT LEGALLY OBTAINED.

cho used 2 pistols. not the "max firearm allowed by law"

your statements are patently false and misleading.

The woman with the six-shooter made it out okay. What, did you want her to empty 30 rounds into him?

Lanza's mom acted as a straw buyer, obviously, and the weapons she obtained were all to the max allowed under the law. Limiting overall weapon power would mean that the weapons that Lanza has access to are weaker than what he used.

Cho falls into the second category of siege. He used the most gun that he could afford with his limited money. If magazine-fed semis weren't so cheap, maybe he'd have been stuck using a revolver, or even a knife.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

No one bothers to use smgs now because you have to make one which isn't worth the effort or risk compared to using a regular handgun. On the other hand when a homemade smg and revolver are both illegal and the smg is easier to acquire obviously they will use the smg.

You people need to accept the fact that you can write whatever the hell you want on a piece of paper but that doesn't make it reality. The war on drugs hasn't stopped anyone from getting drugs and your war on the second amendment isn't going to stop anyone from getting guns.

Since you hate America so much why don't you leave, the UK has all the gun control you could ever want.

BS. The war on drugs is why I don't smoke up. It's too much effort. If buying a gun was as easy as clicking on 2 day prime shipping on Amazon, I'd do it. Plenty of people are stopped with these restrictions. Sure, you're right that a determined person isn't going to give up.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The woman with the six-shooter made it out okay. What, did you want her to empty 30 rounds into him?

Lanza's mom acted as a straw buyer, obviously, and the weapons she obtained were all to the max allowed under the law. Limiting overall weapon power would mean that the weapons that Lanza has access to are weaker than what he used.

Cho falls into the second category of siege. He used the most gun that he could afford with his limited money. If magazine-fed semis weren't so cheap, maybe he'd have been stuck using a revolver, or even a knife.

or lanza's mom did not think he was a threat and therefore thought to teach him responsible firearm use. or she was completely naive. we will never know. you cannot say she is a straw buyer with absolute fact. or any parent who buys a firearm for the purpose of teaching their child to shoot is a straw buyer

mass shooting is a mass shooting. siege or not, he was clearly more effective with 2 pistols than anyone else was with a rifle.

 

[desura]

or lanza's mom did not think he was a threat and therefore thought to teach him responsible firearm use. or she was completely naive. we will never know. you cannot say she is a straw buyer with absolute fact. or any parent who buys a firearm for the purpose of teaching their child to shoot is a straw buyer

mass shooting is a mass shooting. siege or not, he was clearly more effective with 2 pistols than anyone else was with a rifle.

The point is that a restriction on absolute weapon power would result in Nancy Lanza having less powerful weapons overall. The less her weapon power, the less Adam Lanza's weapon power = lives saved.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The point is that a restriction on absolute weapon power would result in Nancy Lanza having less powerful weapons overall. The less her weapon power, the less Adam Lanza's weapon power = lives saved.

what makes a weapon powerful?

magazine capacity? rate of fire? bullet muzzle velocity? momentum? kinetic energy? bullet mass? penetration in ballistic gel before or after going through a previous target or wall? some combination of the above?

please, provide an OBJECTIVE DEFINITION of "weapon power."

by most of the above criteria, a semi-auto shotgun with 00buckshot is one of the most powerful firearms you can own, and in close-quarters combat (or a mass-shooting). it would absolutely WRECK.


"scary black object" does not count.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

The point is that a restriction on absolute weapon power would result in Nancy Lanza having less powerful weapons overall. The less her weapon power, the less Adam Lanza's weapon power = lives saved.

He already didn't have a powerful weapon, the 5.56mm round is small and not particularly lethal. Short of stepping down to a handgun caliber or .22LR it wasn't going get any weaker.


A powerful weapon would be a AR-10 in .308 or a AK-47 in 7.62x39, not to mention a AR-15 in .50 Beowulf or one of the many semi auto 12 gauge shotguns available such as the Saiga 12.

I realize he did have access to a Saiga but it was unused and thus not relevant to your point.

 

[desura]

He already didn't have a powerful weapon, the 5.56mm round is small and not particularly lethal. Short of stepping down to a handgun caliber or .22LR it wasn't going get any weaker.


A powerful weapon would be a AR-10 in .308 or a AK-47 in 7.62x39, not to mention a AR-15 in .50 Beowulf or one of the many semi auto 12 gauge shotguns available such as the Saiga 12.

I realize he did have access to a Saiga but it was unused and thus not relevant to your point.

See, this is pure dis-ingenuity. It really is. Any bullet, whether from a large sniper rifle or a little .22 will kill a young child at nearly point blank range.

It's pretty clear that we're talking about # of shots capable of firing before swapping magazines.

So if CA's law were in effect in Ct, Adam lanza has access only to like some hunting rifles or a six-shot handgun. He spends more time reloading. When police arrive, he has killed less than 20 people.

lives are saved.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

See, this is pure dis-ingenuity. It really is. Any bullet, whether from a large sniper rifle or a little .22 will kill a young child at nearly point blank range.

It's pretty clear that we're talking about # of shots capable of firing before swapping magazines.

So if CA's law were in effect in Ct, Adam lanza has access only to like some hunting rifles or a six-shot handgun. He spends more time reloading. When police arrive, he has killed less than 20 people.

lives are saved.

Or he goes the VT route and brings a bag full of spare 10 round mags for a handgun. Seriously it's not hard to reload quickly and it's not like kids are going to rush him.

Even a revolver can be fired very rapidly with speed loaders, try it yourself sometime. I found that the rate of fire I could manage was not noticeably impacted.

 

[irishScott]

what makes a weapon powerful?

magazine capacity? rate of fire? bullet muzzle velocity? momentum? kinetic energy? bullet mass? penetration in ballistic gel before or after going through a previous target or wall? some combination of the above?

please, provide an OBJECTIVE DEFINITION of "weapon power."

by most of the above criteria, a semi-auto shotgun with 00buckshot is one of the most powerful firearms you can own, and in close-quarters combat (or a mass-shooting). it would absolutely WRECK.


"scary black object" does not count.

Desura isn't worth your time. The moment you make a point he/she can't refute he/she will simply start ignoring you.

It's like arguing with a 14 year old who refuses to understand why he has to wait till 16 to get his driver's license. Because he just knows everything.

 

[irishScott]

Or he goes the VT route and brings a bag full of spare 10 round mags for a handgun. Seriously it's not hard to reload quickly and it's not like kids are going to rush him.

Even a revolver can be fired very rapidly with speed loaders, try it yourself sometime. I found that the rate of fire I could manage was not noticeably impacted.

This point has been posted before in this thread. Desura is a gun-ban chicken running around with it's head cut off. Don't chase it.

 

[ericlp]

I care because people like you, who have no idea what the hell they're talking about, are trying to take them away for no reason; and it's the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms such that they may defend life and property as well as resist tyranny should it become necessary.

Automatic weapons are already banned from new manufacture, and have been since the 80s. Even before that they were heavily licensed and regulated (starting in 1934).

How are you going to kill me? I have guns and you presumably don't. Oh that's right, you'll get someone else to do it for you. If you weren't so stupid I'd report this post for a real-life threat. I literally have zero fear of someone with your intelligence trying to kill me. It's like being threatened by a kindergartner.

Educate yourself, or make a luminosity account. Get a few extra IQ points before you expect to be taken seriously.

If you live in a state where the majority are in FAVOR of the ban.. You better start packing and leave the state or you best hand em over big boy...

The law is the law... Love it or leave it. You can report all you want... I don't give a fuck what you do... Go for it... and if you died breaking our laws... I wouldn't care... I'd be happy... One less assault rifle off the streets. Yay!!!

 

[irishScott]

If you live in a state where the majority are in FAVOR of the ban.. You better start packing and leave the state or you best hand em over big boy...

The law is the law... Love it or leave it. You can report all you want... I don't give a fuck what you do... Go for it... and if you died breaking our laws... I wouldn't care... I'd be happy... One less armed idiot with an assault rifle. Yay!!!

You know it's funny, we have this thing called the Constitution, and I'm pretty sure it's the Supreme Law of the Land. And as per SCOTUS, it protects firearms in "common use", much like the ones CA is trying to ban.

In the meantime you're either a sociopath or a very scared individual who dehumanizes anyone who disagreees with them. I'm so happy you're in the pro-gun control camp. Go forth and spread the word! Talk to people. Espouse your views in public for hours! I want people like you you to be the poster boys of the anti-gun movement.

 

[monovillage]

If you live in a state where the majority are in FAVOR of the ban.. You better start packing and leave the state or you best hand em over big boy...

The law is the law... Love it or leave it. You can report all you want... I don't give a fuck what you do... Go for it... and if you died breaking our laws... I wouldn't care... I'd be happy... One less assault rifle off the streets. Yay!!!

Yeah, the law has been obeyed with marijuana, it works great!

 

[desura]

Yeah, the law has been obeyed with marijuana, it works great!

Actually, it has been obeyed. By making marijuana illegal, consumption is decreased. Supply is inconsistent compared to say, buying a box of wheaties, and the price is likely 5-10x more than what it would be if legal, which decreases consumption again.

Furthermore...drugs are consumables. Guns are durable goods. There isn't anywhere near the same sustained demand for guns as there exists for drugs.

So a law banning certain firearms will work. Because laws tend to work and have an impact.

 

[xBiffx]

You know it's funny, we have this thing called the Constitution, and I'm pretty sure it's the Supreme Law of the Land. And as per SCOTUS, it protects firearms in "common use", much like the ones CA is trying to ban.

In the meantime you're either a sociopath or a very scared individual who dehumanizes anyone who disagreees with them. I'm so happy you're in the pro-gun control camp. Go forth and spread the word! Talk to people. Espouse your views in public for hours! I want people like you you to be the poster boys of the anti-gun movement.

Careful, there are some, even here, who believe the Constitution isn't a set of laws. Especially not the Supreme Law of the Land.

 

[monovillage]

Actually, it has been obeyed. By making marijuana illegal, consumption is decreased. Supply is inconsistent compared to say, buying a box of wheaties, and the price is likely 5-10x more than what it would be if legal, which decreases consumption again.

Furthermore...drugs are consumables. Guns are durable goods. There isn't anywhere near the same sustained demand for guns as there exists for drugs.

So a law banning certain firearms will work. Because laws tend to work and have an impact.

Of course laws work, i've never driven over the speed limit, have you?

 

[Phanuel]

Actually, it has been obeyed. By making marijuana illegal, consumption is decreased. Supply is inconsistent compared to say, buying a box of wheaties, and the price is likely 5-10x more than what it would be if legal, which decreases consumption again.

Furthermore...drugs are consumables. Guns are durable goods. There isn't anywhere near the same sustained demand for guns as there exists for drugs.

So a law banning certain firearms will work. Because laws tend to work and have an impact.

Right, that's why all of my friends smoke weed and have no issues getting as much of it as they want.

 

[desura]

Of course laws work, i've never driven over the speed limit, have you?

You probably adhere to the spirit of the speed limit. Which is generally that traffic should go roughly at a certain pace. Without a speed limit, you'd probably see people doing 120 on a regular basis, and you'd definitely see more car deaths.

 

[desura]

Right, that's why all of my friends smoke weed and have no issues getting as much of it as they want.

1. they're paying more than they would if it were legal

2. suppliers get busted, forcing you to find new suppliers.

Beer drinkers don't have to face those problems.

 

[Phanuel]

*Shrug* The war on drugs is a failure, and weed is readily available and more states are acknowledging that fact.

But this isn't really a discussion where one side can convince the other. You cannot be convinced of our position and I refuse to be convinced of yours as I have a vested interested in protecting my 2A rights.

 

[desura]

*Shrug* The war on drugs is a failure, and weed is readily available and more states are acknowledging that fact.

But this isn't really a discussion where one side can convince the other. You cannot be convinced of our position and I refuse to be convinced of yours as I have a vested interested in protecting my 2A rights.

I'd argue that you don't really have an interest in protecting 2a rights. you just think you do, when in reality it's some misguided gadget fetish + treating the constitution like it's the Quran.

 

[Phanuel]

I'd argue that you don't really have an interest in protecting 2a rights. you just think you do, when in reality it's some misguided gadget fetish + treating the constitution like it's the Quran.

...are you a mind reader now? How can you ascribe my desires to me without even me knowing that this is what I really want?