California Crew: Please vote on June 8th, and please vote no on 16.

SoCalAznGuy

Banned
Mar 28, 2010
120
0
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Prop 16 if passed will ruin my area. It is a power grab by PG&E that will devestate much of California.

If Prop 16 passes it would HALT any development in my county. Any home or building built now would require of a 2/3 vote of the county in a special election. This is for ever single new home built.

That isn't even the worst case, the worst case is if Prop 16 passes my whole county have to do a special election costing countless dollars and could result in the whole county being without electricity for months or years.

This is a county of over 2 million people. The ramification for us if prop 16 passes is unthinkable. Please vote no. PG&E is spending 35 million to ruin the lives of millions of people, please stop them.
 

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
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Every far-left Democratic Party tool in the state of California hates this Prop 16, so I guess it means I'll be voting YES.
And since when did lefties ever care about the cost of a special election? It's democracy dammit!

Thanks for the heads-up SoCalAznGuy!

If you run out of power, buy some from Arizona, assuming your municipality hasn't pissed them off yet.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Definitely voting no on 16. LA faired much better during the energy crisis with their publicly owned LADWP, than the rest of CA did with PG&E.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
Wow. Talk about knee jerk. Here's the guts of the bill from ballotpedia:

If Proposition 16 is approved by voters, it will take a two-thirds vote of the electorate before a public agency could enter the retail power business. This will make it more difficult than it is currently for local entities to form either municipal utilities, or community wide clean electricity districts called Community Choice Aggregators (CCAs). Forming a local municipal utility or a CCA, if this measure is enacted, will require the approval, through election, of 2/3rds of the voters who live in the area of the would-be local municipal utility or CCA.[1]

Pacific Gas & Electric is the primary financial sponsor of the initiative, having contributed $34.5 million through May 2, 2010. That makes PG&E the Goliath in a David-v-Goliath battle, since Prop 16's opponents have raised less than $50,000 through early May.


I don't know about you, but a bill specifically designed to make it HARDER to start a company, sponsored by a company in that business that has a huuuuuge conflict of interest isn't one I'd be voting for, and I'm hardly a Democrat.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Wow. Talk about knee jerk. Here's the guts of the bill from ballotpedia:

If Proposition 16 is approved by voters, it will take a two-thirds vote of the electorate before a public agency could enter the retail power business. This will make it more difficult than it is currently for local entities to form either municipal utilities, or community wide clean electricity districts called Community Choice Aggregators (CCAs). Forming a local municipal utility or a CCA, if this measure is enacted, will require the approval, through election, of 2/3rds of the voters who live in the area of the would-be local municipal utility or CCA.[1]


Pacific Gas & Electric is the primary financial sponsor of the initiative, having contributed $34.5 million through May 2, 2010. That makes PG&E the Goliath in a David-v-Goliath battle, since Prop 16's opponents have raised less than $50,000 through early May.


I don't know about you, but a bill specifically designed to make it HARDER to start a company, sponsored by a company in that business that has a huuuuuge conflict of interest isn't one I'd be voting for, and I'm hardly a Democrat.


That's not the guts of the bill but a synopsis of someone's opinion on the bill.
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
477
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Any home or building built would require 2/3 vote?!? WTF are you talking about that's not at all my understanding of the bill so if you know something else please share with us a reliable source. My understanding was that 2/3 vote would be required before any public utilities were established. And for the record right now I'm leaning on voting no, I do see it as a power grab by PG&E to maintain their monopoly. And for those of you who are saying "well if the left wants it then I'm voting no" then you are no better than the left. I need more information about it before I decide for sure how to vote.
 

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
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It's a money grab pulsar.
No new power will be generated from this, and if the municipality mismanages it, we could wind up with quite a bit less.

Grab part of an existing utility and call it NEW
Raise the rates
PROFIT!
 

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
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And for those of you who are saying "well if the left wants it then I'm voting no" then you are no better than the left. I need more information about it before I decide for sure how to vote.

If every schizophrenic homeless person in your town wanted aluminum foil subsidies to block the CIA mind-control rays personally emitted by Dick Cheney, how much time would you spend analyzing the problem?

The nine California State senators that signed the letter in opposition are: Darrell Steinberg, Mark Leno, Jenny Oropeza, Lois Wolk, Christine Kehoe, Alan Lowenthal, Gilbert Cedillo and Dean Florez.
Those nine clowns make Dennis Kucinich look like Adolf Eichmann.

They are the HARD-Left of the State Democrat Party.
Screw 'em.
I know crap when I see it.
 
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SoCalAznGuy

Banned
Mar 28, 2010
120
0
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Any home or building built would require 2/3 vote?!? WTF are you talking about that's not at all my understanding of the bill so if you know something else please share with us a reliable source. My understanding was that 2/3 vote would be required before any public utilities were established. And for the record right now I'm leaning on voting no, I do see it as a power grab by PG&E to maintain their monopoly. And for those of you who are saying "well if the left wants it then I'm voting no" then you are no better than the left. I need more information about it before I decide for sure how to vote.

Here
http://www.naylornetwork.com/app-ppd/articles/?aid=67604&projid=4454
and
http://www.smud.org/en/Documents/FAQsOnProp16.pdf

The pdf is more detailed.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
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LOL - That was the only one I voted yes for.
Sure there needs to be competition in power generation in Californa but it should not be by local governments.

Any home or building built now would require of a 2/3 vote of the county in a special election. This is for ever single new home built.

You might want to actually read the proposition.

I don't know about you, but a bill specifically designed to make it HARDER to start a company, sponsored by a company in that business that has a huuuuuge conflict of interest isn't one I'd be voting for, and I'm hardly a Democrat.

No, it is about GOVERNMENT starting a power company not private individuals.
California is hardly in need of more government programs.
 
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Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
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I admit that I haven't really looked into the details since I don't live in Cali, but from what I've read so far this seems like a good prop. There is no need for yet more government, this proposition doesn't do anything to prevent private companies/individuals from building and competing.

OP, the hype regarding every single house build requiring a special election is BS from from reading the proposition - just crap opponents made up to try and defeat the prop.
 

SoCalAznGuy

Banned
Mar 28, 2010
120
0
0
LOL - That was the only one I voted yes for.
Sure there needs to be competition in power generation in Californa but it should not be by local governments.



You might want to actually read the proposition.



No, it is about GOVERNMENT starting a power company not private individuals.
California is hardly in need of more government programs.


I have read the new proposition. I live in a area serviced by a local government power company. The problem is it requires a 2/3 vote for government power company to add service unless they are the sole provider in the area. My government run power company might not be the sole provider in the area because their are private companies that provide their own power, and there is 1 customer in the the outskirts of the county that has power provided by a private company since they county can't reach him. If they want to add service to a new home they may infact need a 2/3 vote to do it.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
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LOL

It's ha-ha funny the 'free stooges' are afraid of market competition and support PG&E as the defacto utility.

2/3s super-majority vote? Seems anti-competitive and anti-American to me, so it fits right up the alley of the Wing Nuts.

Maintain a corporate monopoly (and their profits) to the detriment of its customers, by amending the state constitution to protect the corporation.

Hey, Wing Nuts. I believe that if the definition of Fascism.





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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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LOL

It's ha-ha funny the 'free stooges' are afraid of market competition and support PG&E as the defacto utility.
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Free market competition and competition from a government entity are completely different things. You can compete with another company, but you can't compete with another entity that has unlimited resources and can rewrite the rules whenever it feels like it.

Vote YES on prop 16!
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Free market competition and competition from a government entity are completely different things. You can compete with another company, but you can't compete with another entity that has unlimited resources and can rewrite the rules whenever it feels like it.

Vote YES on prop 16!

Riddle me this: Who is rewriting the rules with Prop16, and has so far spent in excess of $35 million in their 'campaign' of deceit?




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CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
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Riddle me this: Who is rewriting the rules with Prop16, and has so far spent in excess of $35 million in their 'campaign' of deceit?

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Any bill that is at the expense of a giant corporation is considered bad to the righties. Actual details of the bill is nothing compared to the plight of a poor corporation seeking to prevent competition.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
And for those of you who are saying "well if the left wants it then I'm voting no" then you are no better than the left. I need more information about it before I decide for sure how to vote.
This is deeply flawed reasoning. Voting for a new law and voting against a new law are not equivalent actions. They have radically different requirements - at least for any sane person who doesn't dream of kings and emperors. If I know nothing about a new law I MUST vote no. It is only with a preponderance of evidence that I would ever consider creating a new chain for the people and subsidy for the legal profession. If a pro-whatever campaign has failed to educate me on their desired policy change (and my bar is a lot higher than a pamphlet and some flashy ads!) then I vociferously oppose it no matter what. Even if it were a good idea, the condescension required to campaign for a new law without aggressively educating the public THOROUGHLY is so very evil in its approach that I can't support it.
 

Elias824

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2007
1,100
0
76
why would anyone vote yes on this, wouldn't this kind of destroy any hopes of a new power company?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Every far-left Democratic Party tool in the state of California hates this Prop 16, so I guess it means I'll be voting YES.
And since when did lefties ever care about the cost of a special election? It's democracy dammit!

Just once, try actually evaluating the issue, instead of being an anal wingnut. I don't care what conclusion you reach, but you should at least know that this measure is funded and pimped by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) in an attempt to avoid competition from municipally operated utilities by requiring a 2/3 majority vote to approve any such proposal, in effect delaying and handcuffing such actions, even when such decisions are needed much sooner than the time it would take to go through an election cycle.

Here's some info from the San Jose Mercury News:

Editorial: Vote no on Prop. 16

To understand what's wrong with California's initiative process, all you need to do is look at Proposition 16 on the June 8 ballot. This outrageous measure is funded by more than $25 million from PG&E, and its sole purpose is to protect PG&E profits.

Voters must say no. If they do, it will show what's right with the initiative process &#8212; and it could discourage other corporations from spending millions on transparently self-serving initiatives that in no way serve the public interest.

Proposition 16 is a constitutional amendment that would require local governments to win the approval of two-thirds of voters before providing electricity to residents through a local utility, as Santa Clara does, or instituting a "community choice" program. PG&E calls it the Taxpayers Right to Vote Act, arguing that, though many cities do hold elections to decide whether to get into the power business, citizens should be constitutionally guaranteed a say.

In reality, PG&E's initiative would quash any such proposal. Requiring a two-thirds majority would discourage public officials fromeven attempting this kind of vote, especially in the face of a massive PG&E spending blitz.

This isn't just conjecture. In Sacramento in 2006 and San Francisco in 2008, PG&E's deep pockets enabled it to defeat simple-majority ballot measures that would have allowed or expanded municipal utilities. Government officials now know they'd have no chance against PG&E if the threshold were raised to two-thirds, allowing a small minority to block the change.

PG&E is capitalizing on mistrust of government and trying to convince voters that up is down. The company's CEO, Peter Darbee, essentially admitted as much in a March 1 meeting with shareholders.

Asked why the company was sponsoring the initiative, Darbee referred to the 2006 battle in which it spent more than $11 million to prevent Davis, Woodland and West Sacramento from defecting to the Sacramento Municipal Utility District.

"So it was really a decision about could we greatly diminish this kind of activity for all going forward rather than spending $10 (million) to $15 million a year of your money to invest in this," Darbee told the shareholders. "The answer was yes."

If that wasn't proof of the cynical intent of Proposition 16, look at the state finance reports: Not a single organization or person other than PG&E has contributed a penny to the campaign. PG&E has said it will spend as much as $35 million to pass the measure. The organized opposition, lacking a wealthy backer, has raised about $20,000.

If Darbee is looking for a cheaper way to hold onto his customers, here's a suggestion: Instead of spending tens of millions of ratepayer dollars on political campaigns, PG&E could use that money to lower rates and find more sources of renewable energy &#8212; the main reasons cities consider breaking away in the first place.

But don't hold your breath. And don't miss the opportunity to send PG&E an unequivocal message by ignoring the barrage of misleading advertising and voting no on Proposition 16. The constitution of the state of California should not be for sale.

This isn't a matter of right vs. left; it's a matter of right vs. wrong. Big utilities have been fucking us for decades, from Enron's criminal antics to BP flagrantly avoiding safety precautions in the Gulf and elsewhere.

If you run out of power, buy some from Arizona, assuming your municipality hasn't pissed them off yet.

FUCK ARIZONA. They won't turn off the power. Like their bigoted anti-imigrant law, they're full of shit, and they don't have a leg to stand on. Their power facilities are partially owned by California companies.
 
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