California bans gas lawn tools in 2024

[mindless1]

maybe part of the equation is that people don't need acres of beautifully mowed and kept lawns? Waste of water, gas/electricity etc to upkeep that garbage. Not to mention the mountains of poisons used every year. Plant clover or other such plants in place of non-native grasses.

Clover? Lol, it'd be trampled. Some people actually walk, run, play, etc on their lawns. It also complicates what weed killers can be used when most are targeting owners of grass lawns and want to kill clover.

I agree that many people do overkill lawn maintenance, but there are many areas with ordinances where you must have a grass lawn and it must be kept up, besides if you let it get all tall and go to seed, neighbors feel you're lowering their property value from the eyesore you let it become, and if you don't use weedkiller so weeds get out of hand, you'll tend to have more insects too including ticks, chiggers, etc.

I don't water my lawn to keep it beautiful but I do water it to keep it from dying. Which would be more wasteful, to let it die then have to reseed it and then water regularly till it establishes good roots, or instead water just enough that it doesn't die in the first place? I can assure you that the latter takes less water, and far less effort.

If you live in a nice neighborhood, you make at least a minimal effort to maintain your lawn, landscape, home, vehicles, etc, if nothing else so you don't look like trash compared to your neighbors.

 

[emperus]

Been gradually replacing my tools with battery for the last few years. All is left is my mower and snow blower. Waiting for my mower to die or need a major overhaul before I get rid of it. There is a trade off with battery vs. gas but not having to deal with maintenance on a small engine makes up for it.

I installed irrigation last year. I like a manicured lawn, and the irrigation allowed me to save some water since I'm no longer watering the sidewalk and money overall, since I don't have to do a heavy reseed(and the water that comes with it) as my grass isn't nearly dead at the end of year

Used to help my mom with her lawn. She would complain that I watered it too much (had the sprinklers on a wifi timer with). So, I stopped. Then she complained that the lawn was dead/dying...

 

[Greenman]

Ripped out my lawn years back when it became obvious that California was in a never ending drought. Put in drought resistant plants and mulch. Needs 20 gallons of water every other day to keep everything green.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

It's going to be interesting to see the folks fighting forest fires trying to create a fire break with battery operated tools. I wonder if the tanker planes can dump batteries?

The law never applies to the people that pass it.

 

[himkhan]

When i lived in California i used an electric lawnmower and battery powered tools............ except for a generator. I don't know what they'll use to replace those in a practical sense.

Fond memories of OCNewbie days.

 

[Paratus]

The build quality of that electric mower is comparable to any gas mower at that price point. Anything below $400, you're going to be left with a running engine on a bent and busted platform after 10 years, if you're lucky. Been that way for a while now.

Even above $400. Bought a nice 4 wheel drive self-propelled Toro 5-6 years ago. Deck is already rusted out. My Dad's Toro, which he bought in the 80's died after 30 years. They are really cheaping out on the construction these days. Maybe there will be a decent electric option when I replace it in the next year or two.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Even above $400. Bought a nice 4 wheel drive self-propelled Toro 5-6 years ago. Deck is already rusted out. My Dad's Toro, which he bought in the 80's died after 30 years. They are really cheaping out on the construction these days. Maybe there will be a decent electric option when I replace it in the next year or two.

Make sure you get a good cord, they are vital for good performance.

 

[Homerboy]

Clover? Lol, it'd be trampled. Some people actually walk, run, play, etc on their lawns. It also complicates what weed killers can be used when most are targeting owners of grass lawns and want to kill clover.

I agree that many people do overkill lawn maintenance, but there are many areas with ordinances where you must have a grass lawn and it must be kept up, besides if you let it get all tall and go to seed, neighbors feel you're lowering their property value from the eyesore you let it become, and if you don't use weedkiller so weeds get out of hand, you'll tend to have more insects too including ticks, chiggers, etc.

I don't water my lawn to keep it beautiful but I do water it to keep it from dying. Which would be more wasteful, to let it die then have to reseed it and then water regularly till it establishes good roots, or instead water just enough that it doesn't die in the first place? I can assure you that the latter takes less water, and far less effort.

If you live in a nice neighborhood, you make at least a minimal effort to maintain your lawn, landscape, home, vehicles, etc, if nothing else so you don't look like trash compared to your neighbors.

Advantages and Disadvantages of Clover Lawns

As water and energy prices rise, many people are seeking alternatives to the traditional, thirsty, labor-intensive American lawn. Here are the pros and cons of letting clover grow in your lawn.

dengarden.com

 

[vi edit]

I know that *a lot* of CA(by population) is residential and very urban. But there's also the other non-urban side. For the lawn mower thing, is it just push mowers? As someone that lived on an acreage, what is the plan there? Battery operated riding mowers aren't exactly a big market.

 

[mindless1]

Advantages and Disadvantages of Clover Lawns

As water and energy prices rise, many people are seeking alternatives to the traditional, thirsty, labor-intensive American lawn. Here are the pros and cons of letting clover grow in your lawn.

dengarden.com

Already stated reasons why clover is simply not viable but I'll add another. Native soil is hard clay here, mow mulching replenishes a layer of topsoil.

However like many garden blogs, there is a lot of misinformation there. For example that clover is (especially) drought tolerant. It turns brown here when the grass does.

For example no herbicides needed is false, other weeds compete just fine here. Part of that may be that my property is adjacent to a field full of weeds, and another property where that neighbor hasn't learned when to treat for dandelions.

 

[desy]

I use a blend called prairie park and I never water my lawn, it has some clover varieties in it.
My sig other says it turns to sticks in dry August and my response is yes that is what our climate supports. Most of it stays as grass through , only the very dry sun drenched center does the clover start to take over

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I know that *a lot* of CA(by population) is residential and very urban. But there's also the other non-urban side. For the lawn mower thing, is it just push mowers? As someone that lived on an acreage, what is the plan there? Battery operated riding mowers aren't exactly a big market.

I don't believe this ban applies to tractors or riding mowers or other large acreage machines. This is pretty much an urban/suburban ban. I bet landscaping businesses can get exemptions of have tools grandfathered in.

 

[mindless1]

^ Lots of people in suburbia use riding mowers... doesn't even have to be an affluent neighborhood, considering you can get a used riding mower for $300, with more life left in it than a brand new $300 cordless push mower, not even counting the cordless battery replacement costs.

 

[vi edit]

I don't believe this ban applies to tractors or riding mowers or other large acreage machines. This is pretty much an urban/suburban ban. I bet landscaping businesses can get exemptions of have tools grandfathered in.

Cool. Yeah there's a balance required here. I totally get that push in urban areas. But you can't do a blanket ban and ignore non urban ones. And yes, landscaping companies would get fucked sideways. You want to see the new trend in theft.... Go steal batteries. No contractor wants to lug around a truck full of batteries to mow/trim yards.

 

[mindless1]

I don't believe this ban applies to tractors or riding mowers or other large acreage machines. This is pretty much an urban/suburban ban. I bet landscaping businesses can get exemptions of have tools grandfathered in.

It depends on what they come up with, but as it currently stands, CARB defines these small off-road engines (SORE) as "spark-ignition engines rated at or below 19KW...primarily used for lawn, garden, and other outdoor power equipment". Except on their sitethey also include industrial, logging, airport ground support, and commercial utility equipment, golf carts and specialty vehicles.

SAE defines 1HP as 745.7W, so an engine at or below 19KW would be at or below 25.5HP which is pretty much all current *residential* grade mowers and overlaps into the midsized (for landscapers, still small by agricultural standards) commercials. Except of course for diesels.

It would be hilarious if mower et al manufacturers started making CA CARB compliant equipment by using same product modified just enough to throw a larger 25.6HP+ engine on it.

I've been looking around and found some CARB regulation for 25HP+ diesels, or spark ignition gas/propane/natural-gas engines but so far have only found the regulated applications listed as forklifts, floor scrubbers and sweepers, industrial tow tractors, and airport ground support equipment.

These latter apps for 25HP+ are fleet requirements with exemption for a fleet with less than four forklifts or less than four non-forklifts. Heh, that's their wording not mine. I guess they think about forklifts a lot.

Anyway, mowers not mentioned in that Guide To Off-Road Vehicle & Equipment Regulations PDF page 8.

Elsewhere it's forklifts "and/or pieces of non-forklift" 3 or fewer so soon in CA, you better hide your pieces of your non-4th, non-forklift, lol

Large Spark-Ignition Regulation | The Off-Road Zone

Anyone know of other limitations for off-road 25HP+ LSI (large spark-ignition) CA engines? I mean besides the obvious that they already have to be CARB compliant models.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

It depends on what they come up with, but as it currently stands, CARB defines these small off-road engines (SORE) as "spark-ignition engines rated at or below 19KW...primarily used for lawn, garden, and other outdoor power equipment". Except on their sitethey also include industrial, logging, airport ground support, and commercial utility equipment, golf carts and specialty vehicles.

SAE defines 1HP as 745.7W, so an engine at or below 19KW would be at or below 25.5HP which is pretty much all current *residential* grade mowers and overlaps into the midsized (for landscapers, still small by agricultural standards) commercials. Except of course for diesels.

It would be hilarious if mower et al manufacturers started making CA CARB compliant equipment by using same product modified just enough to throw a larger 25.6HP+ engine on it.

I've been looking around and found some CARB regulation for 25HP+ diesels, or spark ignition gas/propane/natural-gas engines but so far have only found the regulated applications listed as forklifts, floor scrubbers and sweepers, industrial tow tractors, and airport ground support equipment.

These latter apps for 25HP+ are fleet requirements with exemption for a fleet with less than four forklifts or less than four non-forklifts. Heh, that's their wording not mine. I guess they think about forklifts a lot.

Anyway, mowers not mentioned in that Guide To Off-Road Vehicle & Equipment Regulations PDF page 8.

Elsewhere they limit the forklifts "and/or pieces of non-forklift" to 3 or fewer so you better hide your pieces of your non-4th, non-forklift, lol

Large Spark-Ignition Regulation | The Off-Road Zone

True and much depends on how fastidious the enforcement of the law is and how it's applied. My bet is it will be dependent on complaints.

 

[mindless1]

^ I'm betting it will be broader than that, rather dwindling merchants willing to ship to, or none will sell the SORE equipment in CA when talking new, a separate issue to the types of equipment subject to CARB restrictions I mentioned in the latter half of my post about 25HP+ engines.

Heh, dealer gets a new shipment of mowers, blowers, and power washers, then immediately proceeds to mow the grass around the lot, blow the grass off the concrete, then power wash it, then sells equipment for same price as "used".

 

[raildogg]

Pat yourselves on the back, guys. Now if only we can find some magical way of generating electricity and zero emissions in the production and disposal of electric-powered devices we will be in heaven. Amirite, guys?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Pat yourselves on the back, guys. Now if only we can find some magical way of generating electricity and zero emissions in the production and disposal of electric-powered devices we will be in heaven. Amirite, guys?

Time for nuclear.

Pebble-bed reactor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Paratus]

Pat yourselves on the back, guys. Now if only we can find some magical way of generating electricity and zero emissions in the production and disposal of electric-powered devices we will be in heaven. Amirite, guys?

Found em

 

[sandorski]

Pat yourselves on the back, guys. Now if only we can find some magical way of generating electricity and zero emissions in the production and disposal of electric-powered devices we will be in heaven. Amirite, guys?

It can already be done, no magic required.

 

[mindless1]

^ Except constructing these still requires mining, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, etc. and still won't solve the battery shortage problem which is already limiting.

"Build more stuff" is not really green, just a shell game which with current tech is not sustainable. That doesn't make it bad to give science (humanity) more time to find solutions, that still aren't green, but at least further extend the amount of time we have before the population and lifestyle expectations exceed what the planet can support.

The real solution is consume at a rate no higher than the contemporary level of tech can support while society instead wants to increase consumption and demand (legislate) that the tech magically keep up. Cart before the horse.

 

[Paratus]

^ Except constructing these still requires mining, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, etc. and still won't solve the battery shortage problem which is already limiting.

"Build more stuff" is not really green, just a shell game which with current tech is not sustainable. That doesn't make it bad to give science more time to find solutions, that still aren't green, but further extend the amount of time we have before the population and lifestyle expectations exceed what the planet can support.

Except greenhouse gas release from mining, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, etc can all be mitigated by using 0 emission power production and/or be made neutral through carbon sequestration.

Same goes for energy storage. There is no wild new technology that needs to be created for energy storage. We already have or have demonstrated:

• batteries
• pumped hydro
• gravity
• compressed air
• flyhweel
• carbon neutral fuels

It's all the political will to do something.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Except greenhouse gas release from mining, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, etc can all be mitigated by using 0 emission power production and/or be made neutral through carbon sequestration.

Same goes for energy storage. There is no wild new technology that needs to be created for energy storage. We already have or have demonstrated:

• batteries
• pumped hydro
• gravity
• compressed air
• flyhweel
• carbon neutral fuels

It's all the political will to do something.

Yeah, it's a false dichotomy.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Yeah, it's a false dichotomy.

Yes, it only costs a lot more money, but it can be done.