Calculator cheating question

[BrownTown]

So I have a question for yall which I have often had on tests in the past, lets say you are studying for a test and you are never given instructions that you are not allowed to program your calculator with important equations, in this case is it OK to make calculator programs (because it was never explicitely forbidden), or should you *assume* that programs are forbidden like they are in other tests like the SATs or APs. Also what if you program your calculator DURING the test, I did that once on a question about fractals (had it go through like 20 itterations because i couldn't remember a general forumula I needed)?

For my own history, if they said you could use any calculator you wanted then I never had any problems using programs if they weren't forbidden, but I understand some people apparently think this is cheating, how about ya'll?

 

[SinfulWeeper]

When I was going to school, the use of calculators was totally forbidden. We had to write everything out :|

 

[Analog]

I allow calculators in my Microprocessors and Digital Electronics classes, because hex - decimal - binary conversion is necessary in a rapid fashion. The basics of these conversions is done long hand in another course.

 

[NanoStuff]

What difference does it make? If you can do it without getting caught, you'd be stupid not to.

 

[MegaVovaN]

My class allows calcs AND have formula cheat sheet which you make yourself. Don't need programs there if you studied.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
My class allows calcs AND have formula cheat sheet which you make yourself. Don't need programs there if you studied.

Not entirely true, the test i have today is exactly the same, but it takes TIME to plug stuff into a formula. Maybe not some simple stuff, but were talking double nested loops here, the homework probem would without a program require 65536 complex multiplications and additions and the TI-83's "SUM" doesn't do complex math apparently so I had to write a program to do this. I can more or less guarentee a similar problem will be on the test, it may only be like 3x3 so instead of 16x16, so 9 operations, but either way a program will do it faster and more accurately.

Basically alot of the equation on this test will have 5+ variables and/or lots of complex math and a calculator just does it with 100% accuracy and at higher speed. Basically, there is a big difference between for example knowing the formula for the discrete time fourier transform, and being able to solve it for non-trivial data sets in a timely manor (now that I think about it hte problem probably WILL be something tribial where you can get the answer without all the work, but might as well be able to double check ).

I would say 75% of points I miss on any given test are from making "dumb errors" where I know what I am doing but make some stupid mistake in calculation at like step 2 of a 5 step problem and then get boned, this eliminates alot of those mistakes.

 

[George P Burdell]

For the love of Jesus tapdancing Christ! Someone please bring a grammar nazi in here.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
What difference does it make? If you can do it without getting caught, you'd be stupid not to.

The future head of Enron was quoted as saying...

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
When I was going to school, the use of calculators was totally forbidden. We had to write everything out :|

Exactly. Calculators are great but I think you need to understand what you're doing before ever handed one.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
When I was going to school, the use of calculators was totally forbidden. We had to write everything out :|

Exactly. Calculators are great but I think you need to understand what you're doing before ever handed one.

And I think some people need to understand that senior level EE classes aren't asking you to do some sort of trivial equations here, if you can do thousands of complex multiplications in 5 minutes with no errors then more power too you, but I sure can't so I'll be taking my calculator. Its not like I need a calulator or I can't do division here, I mean how long would it take you to do e^(.452 * pi) on paper, do you even know how? It is absolutely 100% impossible for calculators to be forbidden on any sort of EE test of any merit. Hell, several of my classes have allowed COMPUTERS on test so you could use MATLAB and Mathematica, one even let you use your computer with the internet. The fact is that very few real world engineering problems are not going to be solved (or even possible to solve) on paper, why would you ever care about how fast someone can do digital signal processing on paper?

 

[MikeyLSU]

if you have to keep it a secret from your teacher, it is cheating.

 

[sao123]

tests should be about solving problems... not regurgitating information


storing equations in a calculator is useless unless you know what to do with them

 

[dug777]

RPN>*

I came in here just to say that

 

[steppinthrax]

When I was doing my undergrad I took a lot of math. I was taking calc and numercial analysis one year. I used to always put formulas or tips in the text editor of my TI-89. It didn't really help much though....

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
When I was going to school, the use of calculators was totally forbidden. We had to write everything out :|

Exactly. Calculators are great but I think you need to understand what you're doing before ever handed one.

And I think some people need to understand that senior level EE classes aren't asking you to do some sort of trivial equations here, if you can do thousands of complex multiplications in 5 minutes with no errors then more power too you, but I sure can't so I'll be taking my calculator. Its not like I need a calulator or I can't do division here, I mean how long would it take you to do e^(.452 * pi) on paper, do you even know how? It is absolutely 100% impossible for calculators to be forbidden on any sort of EE test of any merit. Hell, several of my classes have allowed COMPUTERS on test so you could use MATLAB and Mathematica, one even let you use your computer with the internet. The fact is that very few real world engineering problems are not going to be solved (or even possible to solve) on paper, why would you ever care about how fast someone can do digital signal processing on paper?

People before you did it without calcs didn't they? I don't recall the Romans using graphing calculators to build the Colosseum.

(though neither did the builders of the Titanic too)

 

[QED]

I always allowed calculators in my courses-- even if just to store formulas. In fact, in most courses I taught that was really the only use for them.

From my perspective, the whole point of a lot of math courses is to understand the concepts, and not just memorize formula after formula. In fact,
some of the best mathematical minds I have ever known have the worst memories.

 

[SpunkyJones]

Ask the teacher?

 

[RandomFool]

I wasn't allowed to use calculators on tests. The Profs know what calculators can do so IMO if the prof lets you use a calculator on an exam then you can use it whichever way you want. That said knowing how to do things without a calculator makes you a better student in the end.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: SpunkyJones
Ask the teacher?

That's logical and analytical thinking. They don't teach that anymore in schools

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
What difference does it make? If you can do it without getting caught, you'd be stupid not to.

And heck, one of my engineering professors said, at least for his classes, "The SMART student will write a program on his calculator to do these calculations!"
He also would frequently say, "The SMART student will write a spreadsheet."
Always with that emphasis, too - his way of giving a subtle hint.

Of course, some professors would make it known that their policy was to go around before a test and manually clear the memory of each calculator.
I didn't have any such professors, but I had heard about such policies.

Too much of engineering seems to be just plug-n-chug, and the teachers recognize this. In my Heat Transfer class, the professor will specify if he needs a numeric answer on an exam, as he generally doesn't. He says that the homework is the time and place for plug-n-chug calculations, but on the test, he'll trust that everyone knows how to use a calculator. He's interested to see if you know how to find and set up the proper equations.
Those tests were even open-book, open-notes. One skill that has been harped on repeatedly is that you frequently won't have the answer right away, so you need to know how to find it in a timely fashion. Sometimes the tests will cover material that wasn't explicitly reviewed in class, but it's in the textbook, and can be found fairly easily, assuming you're at least somewhat familiar with the content of the relevant chapters.

Originally posted by: George P Burdell
For the love of Jesus tapdancing Christ! Someone please bring a grammar nazi in here.

Someone COMMA please bring a grammar Nazi in here.