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Cain's 9 - 9 - 9 Plan: Chart of Tax Brackets & How Much Your Taxes Would Change...

M

mshan

Diamond Member
Less than $10,000: $1,122 more (19.5% increase, 22.1% tax rate)

$10,000-$20,000: $2,705 more (17.8% increase, 19.7% tax rate)

$20,000-$30,000: $3,833 more (15.0% increase, 22.1% tax rate)

$30,000-$40,000: $4,196 more (11.7% increase, 23.2% tax rate)

$40,000-$50,000: $4,399 more (9.5% increase, 23.8% tax rate)

$50,000-$75,000: $4,326 more (6.9% increase, 23.8% tax rate)

$75,000-$100,000: $4,368 more (4.9% increase, 23.8% tax rate)

$100,000-$200,000: $2,105 more (1.5% increase, 23.1% tax rate)



$200,000-$500,000: $11,155 less (3.8% decrease, 20.6% tax rate)

$500,000-$1 million: $59,489 less (8.6% decrease, 18.1% tax rate)

$1 million or more: $455,247 less (15% decrease, 17.9% tax rate)!
Click to expand...
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...e-wealthy-would-benefit-from-cains-9-9-9-plan

Read somewhere that 9 - 9 -9 tax plan was what SimCity developed because creators thought it was easy for users to understand.


🙄
 
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Even without running the numbers I knew it would be bad. These ones are pretty awful 🙂

Cain is a joke and reflects very badly on this country that so many seem to think otherwise.
 
I call shens on that article. I hate the 9-9-9 plan but it is not that bad. They make some an assumtion that employers will stick the 9% business tax on employees which is stupid.

Here is the real math for me. I make about 50k a year.

So my flat tax would be 4500 dollars a year.

Over half my income goes towards Mortgage car payment cell phones cable utilities ect.

At most my sales tax a year would be 2047.50.

That comes out to 6547.50 a year. I would have to look at what I pay now including that payroll tax. That 9 9 9 would not even come close to generating enough revenue.

I am not even counting my payroll tax contribution I would get back.
 
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quest55720 said:
I call shens on that article. I hate the 9-9-9 plan but it is not that bad. They make some an assumtion that employers will stick the 9% business tax on employees which is stupid.
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I agree. I do not think they will stick it on their employees.

I think they will stick it on their customers.


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"They make some an assumtion that employers will stick the 9% business tax on employees which is stupid."
Click to expand...
"I think they will stick it on their customers."
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So you're saying a business wouldn't pass on a cost to their employees out of the goodness of their heart, especially when current unemployment is 9.1% and underemployed is 16% and potentially bleak prospects for substantial reductions for many years)

Instead they will voluntarily choose to raise prices and presumably lose revenue and profit, unless they have a product or service that people can't get anywhere at any price and must have, even in this economy?



😕
 
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mshan said:
So you're saying a business, out of the goodness of their heart, wouldn't pass on a cost to their employees unless they absolutely can't (employment market is so tight that they can't hire, especially when current unemployment is 9.1% and underemployed is 16% and potentially no prospects for substantial reductions for many years)

Instead they will raise prices and presumably lose revenue, unless they have a product or service that people can't get anywhere at any price?



😕
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Yeah because employers are sticking people with the 35% business tax right? It is just a silly argument to try and make cain's plan look stupid. You can do that with out that silly assumption. It taxes the poor to much and give a huge tax break to the rich.
 
Kwatt said:
I agree. I do not think they will stick it on their employees.

I think they will stick it on their customers.


.
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That makes the assumption that businesses are paying no taxes now. If a business is being taxed at an effective rate of 18% now, it's effectively getting its taxes cut in half. That money would flow to stockholders, or to customers, or to employees, or to cash on hand, or to some combination thereof. Other businesses would be less profitable or otherwise be taxed at a low rate - for instance, General Electric. That company would see a 9% tax increase. That money would come from stockholders, or from customers, or from employees, or from cash on hand, or from some combination thereof. It's not nearly as simple as this chart indicates for individuals either.

My own exceptions to the 999 tax plan are three: I don't think it's moral to tax wage income but not investment income, I don't think the tax as structured will raise anywhere near as much income (thus requiring rapid and substantial rate increases), and I don't think it's wise to give government another major tax it can raise.
 
quest55720 said:
I call shens on that article. I hate the 9-9-9 plan but it is not that bad. They make some an assumtion that employers will stick the 9% business tax on employees which is stupid.

Here is the real math for me. I make about 50k a year.

So my flat tax would be 4500 dollars a year.

Over half my income goes towards Mortgage car payment cell phones cable utilities ect.

At most my sales tax a year would be 2047.50.

That comes out to 6547.50 a year. I would have to look at what I pay now including that payroll tax. That 9 9 9 would not even come close to generating enough revenue.

I am not even counting my payroll tax contribution I would get back.
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That's still a tax hike, your 2011 tax liability is 6250, 12.5% effective rate. (ignoring mortgage int deduction etc)
The only way your sales tax was $2047 a year is if you save 40% of your disposable income (2047.50/0.09 )/ 50000*(1-0.125), which would be pretty impressive (average household saves 5%)
http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/inc02?skn=#results
 
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"I don't think it's wise to give government another major tax it can raise."
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Now that's something The Tea Party should really be arguing for!!!



:thumbsup:
 
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mshan said:
So you're saying a business wouldn't pass on a cost to their employees out of the goodness of their heart, especially when current unemployment is 9.1% and underemployed is 16% and potentially bleak prospects for substantial reductions for many years)

Instead they will voluntarily choose to raise prices and presumably lose revenue and profit, unless they have a product or service that people can't get anywhere at any price and must have, even in this economy?



😕
Click to expand...


Not what I meant to imply.

I meant that if a business's cost go up for any reason they must pass that cost on.

Or go out of business. Which is not good for anyone.


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England tried the sales tax to replace income tax and ended up with a VAT replacing sales tax and keeping income tax too.

This to me looks like a back door way to bring about a VAT.



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I would like to know if anyone has a list of the taxes in the US that were done away with when a "new" tax was brought in to replace it.




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LOL , the funny part of all this is people that think because it says 999 that is all they will have to pay. The government knows how to keep you on the hook. They will just leverage it from other fees. Gas taxes, communication taxes, recycling taxes, school taxes, war taxes, etc
 
How many separate 9-9-9 threads are we going to have?

Cain doesn't stand a chance of winning anyway.
 
Doppel said:
Sure I'm not the first to see that the 999 plan screws you if you're in the 99.9% of people 😉
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Well, yeh, of course. That's the essence of every Republican tax proposal since Forbes' flat tax flimflam. It was the underlying principle of tax changes in the Reagan era, too- Raise SS taxes, cut taxes at the top to hold revenues down, and borrow more money.

What the financiers of the Repub party really want is for the peasants to just pay the plutocracy, who would be the govt, kinda like 1600AD...

The good old days.
 
quest55720 said:
I call shens on that article. I hate the 9-9-9 plan but it is not that bad. They make some an assumtion that employers will stick the 9% business tax on employees which is stupid.

Here is the real math for me. I make about 50k a year.

So my flat tax would be 4500 dollars a year.

Over half my income goes towards Mortgage car payment cell phones cable utilities ect.

At most my sales tax a year would be 2047.50.

That comes out to 6547.50 a year. I would have to look at what I pay now including that payroll tax. That 9 9 9 would not even come close to generating enough revenue.

I am not even counting my payroll tax contribution I would get back.
Click to expand...

You conveniently ignore that the day you bought that car you'd be hit with an additional 9% federal sales tax over and above your state sales tax. So, no, don't pretend that getting a loan to purchase something makes the tax go away.

I'm also not so sure your payments for the utilities you mentioned would be Cain-tax-free?

I already did an analysis of a $50,000 income family in another thread, and they were major losers under 9-9-9. You would be, too.
 
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