Cain Velasquez vs Fedor Emelianenko...who'd win?

[WaTaGuMp]

Woosta is spot on. I'd like to see Overeem fight Cain though. That would be AWESOME! As in, Cain would get an AWESOME beating. I wonder if he'd have the balls to stand up with Overeem though. Probably not.

Another fight that most likely wont happen since they are in different promotions.

 

[QueBert]

Woosta is spot on. I'd like to see Overeem fight Cain though. That would be AWESOME! As in, Cain would get an AWESOME beating. I wonder if he'd have the balls to stand up with Overeem though. Probably not.

Cain would win, who cares about how he'd do it? Overeem has zero wins in MMA over top 15 except Rogers. He might be a phenom in k1, but in MMA he gets beat by everyone good he faces. Cain would destroy him with his speed. Next up for Overeem is getting beat by Werdum again. Doubt he'll ever get a win in MMA again a top 10 dude. But he can always go to Japan and fight James Thompson again, or somebody even less skilled.

 

[Woosta]

Cain would win, who cares about how he'd do it? Overeem has zero wins in MMA over top 15 except Rogers. He might be a phenom in k1, but in MMA he gets beat by everyone good he faces. Cain would destroy him with his speed. Next up for Overeem is getting beat by Werdum again. Doubt he'll ever get a win in MMA again a top 10 dude. But he can always go to Japan and fight James Thompson again, or somebody even less skilled.

Ignorance once again. Overeem would kick 99% of the UFC HW's asses. Only people that give him trouble are Cain and JDS.

 

[manimal]

What we need to realize is at the very least Fedor is a student of the game. You can bet he is working on his sprawl and his transition game like nothing else right now.

I do think Cain has the cardio and conditioning edge. It will all come down to who gets the first real opportunity...


Fabrizio had two losses in the UFC before being let go. Dana has always disliked brazilian fighers and favors wrestlers over Jui-jitsu.

I miss the old Vale Tudo days.....

 

[manimal]

Ignorance once again. Overeem would kick 99% of the UFC HW's asses. Only people that give him trouble are Cain and JDS.

If he passed the state athletic commission drug tests that is


I do think Overeem is a solid fighter with a good chin and credible hands.



The reason Fedor didnt sign is his gangsters had a disagreement with Dana and his gangsters...


BTW the Fertitis are not choir boys....

 

[QueBert]

Wootsa I have you on ignore, but I'm sure you're responding to my comment because you have a huge man crush on Overeem. He's beaten NOBODY in MMA, if you even try to dispute this you know nothing about MMA. My bad he beat Vitor like 5 years ago and Buentello a few years later. He has the most unimpressive 33 win I think I've ever seen. The wins over good names mean nothing when it's a dude like Goodridge who should have already been retired. And Gary would have smashed Overeems ass back when he was in his prime. Same thing with Fujita, he beats a dude who should have stopped fighting 2 years before the fight.

Again I have you on ignore so if you reply I won't read it, but I know you know I'm right here. Allistar has done nothing in MMA to suggest he'd beat the top HW in KOTC, he should stick to Kick Boxing or fighting way out of their prime dudes or people like James Thompson who have more losses than wins.

 

[RPD]

You sell your soul to be in the UFC. They fucking own you and your brand. Randy Couture tried to fight Fedor but Dana prevented that from happening. Dana White wouldn't let Brock vs Fedor happen. Dana White won't let Fedor vs Cain happen.

Woosta once again you swing too far.

Saying Dana "won't" let Fedor fight is like saying the NFL won't let teams play vs. the CFL.

Dana DID make a HUGE effort to get Fedor into UFC, but he/his management wanted co-promotion (Like the CFL asking the NFL to advertise the CFL during NFL games). Yes, that sounds as stupid as it is.

The correct statement would be, given Fedor's current employer, Dana doesn't NEED or want Fedor fighting any UFC fighters, even cans. Cross promotion fights are dumb because if someone gets hurt does the other promotion get hit in the shorts (see $$)? No.

Way to tell one side of the story.

 

[RPD]

Wootsa I have you on ignore, but I'm sure you're responding to my comment because you have a huge man crush on Overeem. He's beaten NOBODY in MMA, if you even try to dispute this you know nothing about MMA. My bad he beat Vitor like 5 years ago and Buentello a few years later. He has the most unimpressive 33 win I think I've ever seen. The wins over good names mean nothing when it's a dude like Goodridge who should have already been retired. And Gary would have smashed Overeems ass back when he was in his prime. Same thing with Fujita, he beats a dude who should have stopped fighting 2 years before the fight.

Again I have you on ignore so if you reply I won't read it, but I know you know I'm right here. Allistar has done nothing in MMA to suggest he'd beat the top HW in KOTC, he should stick to Kick Boxing or fighting way out of their prime dudes or people like James Thompson who have more losses than wins.

This also has truth. For anyone that didn't know Overeem got the Strike force HW title by beating Buentello (correct me if I'm wrong here). Buentello who couldn't beat Steven Struve (sp) and was cut by the UFC after I think 3 or 4 lost fights in a row.

I like Overeem in the same way I like Brock, his potential. But he has yet to realize it in the given medium (MMA not K1) everyone wants to compare him to.

 

[QueBert]

This also has truth. For anyone that didn't know Overeem got the Strike force HW title by beating Buentello (correct me if I'm wrong here). Buentello who couldn't beat Steven Struve (sp) and was cut by the UFC after I think 3 or 4 lost fights in a row.

I like Overeem in the same way I like Brock, his potential. But he has yet to realize it in the given medium (MMA not K1) everyone wants to compare him to.

Buentello was a contender at his peak, but Overeem fights dudes when they're well past that stage. Buentello Vs Overeem with Paul in his prime would have looked exactly like Liddell Vs Overeem, and we all know how that went for Allistar. His win over Rogers was sweet but it was a lot of luck, Rogers gave Fedor one of his toughest fights. I think if they ever rematch it'll look much different, even if Allistar won a rematch it wouldn't look anything like the 1st fight.

BTW he only lost 2 in a row before Dana let him go.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Woosta once again you swing too far.

Saying Dana "won't" let Fedor fight is like saying the NFL won't let teams play vs. the CFL.

Dana DID make a HUGE effort to get Fedor into UFC, but he/his management wanted co-promotion (Like the CFL asking the NFL to advertise the CFL during NFL games). Yes, that sounds as stupid as it is.

The correct statement would be, given Fedor's current employer, Dana doesn't NEED or want Fedor fighting any UFC fighters, even cans. Cross promotion fights are dumb because if someone gets hurt does the other promotion get hit in the shorts (see $$)? No.

Way to tell one side of the story.

This. It is absolutely ridiculous to rip into the UFC for not giving co-promotion to sign Fedor or other fighter for that matter, no matter how good they are. When forming a contract you negotiate with a fighter, not every brand or promotion that fighter is a part of as well. I don't know whether its Fedor or his management, but either way Fedor could have told his management to fuck off a long time ago, so it really is his fault either way.

Also, I think Cain has more skill/experience than people here are giving him credit for. Yeah, he doesn't have the mile-long fight history of some, and I would still pick Fedor in a fight between the two, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him and I'd love to have him step up and make me look stupid.

 

[gevorg]

Today, Fedor will most likely win, but in a few years, Fedor will have to pass the torch to someone like Cain.

Anyway, this fight will never happen since Dana White is too much of a shitbag with his "head i win, tails you lose" business.

 

[Woosta]

Yes. Cain is on track to be the successor to Fedor if all goes well.
Cro Cop passed the striker torch to JDS.
Brock is the new Kerr/Coleman.

 

[nublikescake]

Yes. Cain is on track to be the successor to Fedor if all goes well.
Cro Cop passed the striker torch to JDS.
Brock is the new Kerr/Coleman.

So it seems. But I'd hold any judgment on Cain until he fights some top fighters (Brock doesn't count ). A match-up against JDS would be a real test for each fighter.

 

[skyofavalon]

Brock is the new Bob Sapp

 

[QueBert]

Brock is the new Bob Sapp

Yep, because Sapp was a NCAA Div 1 wrestler with a 106-5 record. Sapp's nothing but size and power, the 2 aren't even comparable at all. Sapp also fought LeBanner to a draw, so it's not like he's not a tough dude.

 

[CRXican]

Fedor is washed up

 

[Woosta]

Sapp's nothing but size and power, the 2 aren't even comparable at all. Sapp also fought LeBanner to a draw, so it's not like he's not a tough dude.

And Brock is more than just size and power?

 

[TheNinja]

Fedor would be the favorite, but Cain has looked quite impressive. That being said, Cain's biggest win is Brock...who while being a beast, has nowhere near the MMA experience as a lot of guys. Nog is a big win too, but Nog is nowhere near what he used to be, and I'm a HUGE Minotauro fan.
Never bet against Fedor, I think he would take the fight. Cain is younger and maybe faster, but Fedor only lost to 1 guy his entire life and that's because he became arrogant and jumped into the guard of one of the best HW BJJ players in all MMA.

 

[TheNinja]

Today, Fedor will most likely win, but in a few years, Fedor will have to pass the torch to someone like Cain.

Anyway, this fight will never happen since Dana White is too much of a shitbag with his "head i win, tails you lose" business.

I agree with your first statement, but the Fedor vs UFC deal is not Dana's fault. Fedor's management team M-1 Global are a bunch of greedy bastards who insist on co-promotion with UFC for any fight Fedor is in. Why on earth would UFC co-promote with some no-name MMA promoter and give them traction and limelight? UFC is HUGE!! They don't need to co-promote or help anyone else's company.

IF Fedor was not part of M-1 Global I believe he would have been in the UFC after Pride was bought out, same as CroCop and Nog.

 

[monaroCountry]

According to many of Sherdog's forums even after Werdum submitted him, Fedor's still unbeatable. So Cain has little chance of beating a dude who can't be beat, even though he's been beat.

Fedor followed and got beat on the ground by last person you would ever want to go to ground with. Werdum is one of the best and the current champion in grappling (ADCC). Cain’s ground game is nowhere near that of Fedor (who is a multiple time Sambo, Combat Sambo champion and a Russian representative in Judo) and definitely not even in the same realm as the multiple time ADCC champion Werdum.

I cant see Cain beating Fedor standing, this guy trains with Hollands best K-1 fighters for his stand up. I certainly cant see Cain beating Fedor on the ground.

MMA fans are idiots who are always stuck on the whole "experience" thing. Obviously it helps, but some dudes are just better regardless of how short of a time they've been doing something. Also, for every current great there was a point where they were the underdog and proved the world wrong by an upset win over a heavily favored, more experienced fighter. Cain's faster, younger, has awesome wrestling and is more hungry right now.

Experience counts allot in the fight game. Fedor is an experienced fighter who has fought and beaten Olympic wrestlers on the ground, ADCC champions on the ground, and kickboxing legends standing.

Its not only experienced though, its also the skills shown in their fights. Fedor is a compete package who has shown top level standup and ground game, Cain hasn’t even submitted anyone.

Cain is a good fighter but his NCAA level wrestling isn’t new to Fedor who have fought and won against great wrestlers. Cain is fast but doesn’t look as fast as Fedor.

He's also very critical of his own performances. If you watched the press conference after 121 the 1st thing he spoke on was how unhappy he was with the mistakes he felt he made in the fight. Never seen a fighter win like that and still talk about his performance like it wasn't good. It Would be hard to call this fight, but I'd give the edge to Cain just because he's so good and any tiny hole he finds in his game he busts his ass to correct it.

Most fighters bust their asses to correct mistakes.

We'll never see Fedor Vs Cain, Dana offered Fedor the largest contract in UFC history and Fedor's people told him to go fuck himself. The UFC doesn't need Fedor, he'd be a great addition but they will be fine without him. Fedor's management is a bunch of jerk offs, and sadly he won't stand up to them. Even losing a few of his later fights, Igor Vovchanchyn went out fighting the best, like the warrior he was. This is why he's the GOAT ihmo. Fedor will go out fighting some half ass freak show in Japan. What a shitty way to do it

-The supposed millions offered by the UFC has already debunked.
-Strikeforce was able to match the guaranteed money offerd by UFC which was $400k. In addition to this, Strikeforce was agreeable to a copromotion.
-Fedor’s management is also his business partner. Fedor has a 20% ownership of M1-Global.
-The UFC might not need Fedor but clearly Fedor doesn’t need the UFC. The UFC only has two good HW in Cain and JDS. Strikeforce on the other hand has Overeem, Fedor, Josh, and Werdum.
-Fedor has fought 40% of UFC’s HW champions and won, he has fought against Pride champions, fought against K-1 champions and fighters from other promotions. Fedor has the deepest top 10 and top 5 kill list in the HW division.
-Do you even realise that Fedor was once nicknamed “Igor version 2.0” both has very similar fighting style, aggressiveness, background, country of birth, etc.

I don't know whether its Fedor or his management, but either way Fedor could have told his management to fuck off a long time ago, so it really is his fault either way.

In any contract discussions both parties must agree. If Fedor’s party found a better partner (and they did) then why cant they just walk away? Since Fedor has a 20% stake in M1-Global then it only makes good business sense to ensure that HIS company thrives. Dana and his foul mouthed mobster friends cant bully the GOAT of MMA, a very successful businessman Vadim, and one of the richest billionaires Sergei Matvienko.

 

[monaroCountry]

I agree with your first statement, but the Fedor vs UFC deal is not Dana's fault. Fedor's management team M-1 Global are a bunch of greedy bastards who insist on co-promotion with UFC for any fight Fedor is in.

Promotions co-promote in boxing to match up two top fighters.
Strikeforce co-promotes with M1-Global and Dream
Pride co-promoted with the UFC and other promotions
Golden Glory co-promotes

EVERYONE in MMA and boxing co-promotes except the UFC. The last time UFC co-promoted its champion lost against a Pride fighter, and Dana lost close to half a million dollars in a personal bet with the boss of Pride (he didn’t honour this bet and tried to back track lol).

 

[QueBert]

Promotions co-promote in boxing to match up two top fighters.
Strikeforce co-promotes with M1-Global and Dream
Pride co-promoted with the UFC and other promotions
Golden Glory co-promotes

EVERYONE in MMA and boxing co-promotes except the UFC. The last time UFC co-promoted its champion lost against a Pride fighter, and Dana lost close to half a million dollars in a personal bet with the boss of Pride (he didn’t honour this bet and tried to back track lol).

Boxing is boxing, you have different promoters but nobody says anything more than boxing when a PPV is coming up. SF co promotes with Dream because they're small time compared to the UFC. Why would the largest MMA Org agree to co-promote with M1? UFC stands to gain zilch from it. I suppose you think the NFL should have co-promoted with Arena football? Look at sports, outside of boxing a few smaller MMA orgs nobody co-promotes for shit.

 

[monaroCountry]

Boxing is boxing, you have different promoters but nobody says anything more than boxing when a PPV is coming up. SF co promotes with Dream because they're small time compared to the UFC. Why would the largest MMA Org agree to co-promote with M1? UFC stands to gain zilch from it. I suppose you think the NFL should have co-promoted with Arena football? Look at sports, outside of boxing a few smaller MMA orgs nobody co-promotes for shit.

Boxing is boxing, it might no longer be as popular in America but globally Boxing has grown leaps and bounds, this is partly because of co-promotion where fighters/promoters from Russia can better test themselves and where a fighter in Philippines can better test himself etc.

The reason why they should co-promote is
1) to challenge its champion fight other champions the same way the once biggest promotion, Pride.
2) to legitimise its champion and world ranking
3) to see the best fighters in the world fight the best from around the world
4) to gain greater international exposure
5) to give fans a fight that they want to see
6) to have more and better matchups
7) to gain greater viewership.

Correct me if im wrong but isn’t the NFL a league that is really only played at a professional level in America? A better analogy would be Rugby League and Soccer, in rugby league you can see the NRL champion (Australia and New Zealand) test themselves against the ESL champion (England) once a year to see who is the better team. In soccer you have a multitude of clubs travel to all corners of the world to challenge the champions of that region, you might have Liverpool F.C. compete against Real Madrid for the UEFA Cup.

For MMA to be a global and successful sport they should follow the inclusive examples set by the most popular sport in the world (Soccer) and not a bit sport like American Football (don’t fool yourself into thinking that American Football is a globally popular sport).

 

[sourceninja]

Fedor is MMA, guys like Cain are the future of MMA.

Last year I'd put money on Fedor over anyone, however he can't go on forever. I think he is losing his drive to fight. If he get's it back he will still be unbeatable for a few years until age catches up to him.

I also think Brock Lesnor has a great future in fighting if he finds his heart and learns how to strike. He's got all the physical tools, he just needs a few mental ones.