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CA and 4 major automakers cut a deal, bypassing Trump EPA

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fskimospy said:
Did you guys not see the news story where it said he was revoking it to ‘punish’ California for defying him?

I mean isn’t that by far the most likely answer? He doesn’t care about any policy, he cares they were mean to him.
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That he got outmaneuvered and publicly embarrassed is a major part of it. Not that he's also not pretty interested in mind numbingly stupid environmental rollbacks that nobody but very narrow business interests want.
 
Here is the "announcement"

Screen Shot 2019-09-18 at 10.40.04 AM.png


You can bet this is going to show up in the lawsuits since none of what he claims is true. Can't wait to see government lawyers argue that lessening restrictions on pollutants will somehow lower pollution when his own EPA hasn't managed to gin up a non-laughable explanation justifying the claim. Bolsters plaintiff arguments that these actions are arbitrary and capricious in addition to flatly illegal since there is no provision to revoke a waiver in the law. Also the minor consideration that the EPA has issued no new standard...
 
K1052 said:
I would not like to be the government lawyers in the myriad lawsuits that are going on over these kinds of arbitrary rollbacks. They lose a lot.
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hey, but at least we all get to pay for these meaningless, wasteful lawsuits that exist only to make OrangeSyphillis feel a wee bit better about himself.
 
Precisely zero manufacturers will change anything. Vehicles require years of development, and they're not going to change strategies based on the ravings of the syphilitic lunatic living in the white house.
 
K1052 said:
Here is the "announcement"


You can bet this is going to show up in the lawsuits since none of what he claims is true. Can't wait to see government lawyers argue that lessening restrictions on pollutants will somehow lower pollution when his own EPA hasn't managed to gin up a non-laughable explanation justifying the claim. Bolsters plaintiff arguments that these actions are arbitrary and capricious in addition to flatly illegal since there is no provision to revoke a waiver in the law. Also the minor consideration that the EPA has issued no new standard...
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At first I thought it was amazing how often Trump ends up shooting himself in the foot with his big mouth but since I learned that he doesn't actually care about policy he doesn't care if he loses the lawsuits either.
 
dainthomas said:
Precisely zero manufacturers will change anything. Vehicles require years of development, and they're not going to change strategies based on the ravings of the syphilitic lunatic living in the white house.
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Basically yeah. Bigger picture though is the potential that CA will become much more aggressive with their standards and less amenable to compromises with any future EPA as a result of this little adventure. That's not what industry wants to happen. Asking for relief form Trump was an enormous mistake.
 
fskimospy said:
At first I thought it was amazing how often Trump ends up shooting himself in the foot with his big mouth but since I learned that he doesn't actually care about policy he doesn't care if he loses the lawsuits either.
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Yes, the issue is that he was defied not that he actually cares about the issues involved beyond a weird surface affinity for burning as many fossil fuels as possible.
 
ewdotson said:
You know, I'm starting to suspect that the GOP's states' rights advocacy might not be being made in entire good faith.
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Yup. Irritates me to no end how 'states rights/personal liberty' they scream when it comes to 2A or NIMBY-ism, but the second someone tries to actually improve the environment, better start raising the flag of federalism again.

Hypocrisy.
 
I'm sure Trump will bring up what clean air and water we have so we don't need these expensive regulations.

By relaxing the standards, the claim is that it would somehow lower the price of a new car, but given the re-engineering and re-tooling and the like, that's not too likely in the short term (meaning before the 2020 election).

Obviously, thats what he's claiming in this morning's round of Tweetjaculations, along with the bizarre claim that this will also make cars much safer. To which I can only say "Whadafuk?"
 
I don't even think CA should waste money suing over this. Just keep issuing standards but suspend enforcement until new waiver is issued. But make it clear or pass a state law that says that they will be immediately enforced as soon as the next administration re-issues the waiver, no grace period. Let automakers factor that into their decision making, whether they want to bet their continued existence on Trump winning in 2020 and a Republican winning in 2024.
 
It's absolutely absurd that an American President is trying to force the automobile manufactures, of all industries, to be less ecologically minded against their will.

Automakers, US and otherwise (it's all global) aren't going to throw away 40 years of tech. Tech that has made their cars more reliable and more efficient in many ways, and mostly more desirable to consumers.

Once again (actually, as always) Trump is just being spiteful to a state that doesn't kiss his ring.
 
VRAMdemon said:
It's absolutely absurd that an American President is trying to force the automobile manufactures, of all industries, to be less ecologically minded against their will.

Automakers, US and otherwise (it's all global) aren't going to throw away 40 years of tech. Tech that has made their cars more reliable and more efficient in many ways, and mostly more desirable to consumers.

Once again (actually, as always) Trump is just being spiteful to a state that doesn't kiss his ring.
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He wants people to really roll coal. Steam engines here we come!
 
Trump is like a disruptive kid in class. Can't contribute value, but wants to feel important, and the only way he can do so is by being harmful.
 
K1052 said:
Basically yeah. Bigger picture though is the potential that CA will become much more aggressive with their standards and less amenable to compromises with any future EPA as a result of this little adventure. That's not what industry wants to happen. Asking for relief form Trump was an enormous mistake.
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Plus it doesn't prevent them enforcing the same regulations by different means.

They can easily just use state powers of taxation to similarly enforce standards.
 
Bitek said:
Plus it doesn't prevent them enforcing the same regulations by different means.

They can easily just use state powers of taxation to similarly enforce standards.
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Yup. Agreed. If CA can impose their insane gasoline excise taxes, they can certainly impose more based on mpg. Something tells me though....
1. Automakers will comply regardless.
2. I hope for a shift in cabinet in about a year where this quickly becomes a non issue.
 
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Dunno if it has been brought up but the bit about having the Justice Department open up trust/collusion cases into any automakers that still meet the CA standard is some straight up Banana Republic shit...

Like, car makers cannot voluntarily decide to produce more efficient cars without the Justice Department investigating... What exactly?
 
senseamp said:
I don't even think CA should waste money suing over this. Just keep issuing standards but suspend enforcement until new waiver is issued. But make it clear or pass a state law that says that they will be immediately enforced as soon as the next administration re-issues the waiver, no grace period. Let automakers factor that into their decision making, whether they want to bet their continued existence on Trump winning in 2020 and a Republican winning in 2024.
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They should just ignore this, keep enforcing and let the car companies sue claiming it isn't valid. Put all the cost on them. Then do what you say if they by some chance win.
 
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Zorba said:
They should just ignore this, keep enforcing and let the car companies due claiming it isn't valid. Put all the cost on them. Then do what you say if they by some chance win.
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The automakers are a global industry. China is eradicating ICE. Europe probably is, too. India is. There is simply nothing Trump can do to force these companies to do something incredibly, obviously, indefensibly stupid to torpedo the global market and force them to be explicitly anti-competitive.

I agree that there really is no point in suing the admin--it's not like they can do anything. The automakers aren't turning back. They produce products for the global market, not just for the US. This is just more meaningless grist for Trump's intractable base of unread, unwashed, deplorables to keep them believing that he is doing "great things!"

The only thing he can do to influence these companies is to go all out and nationalize them. lol--and watch him try! Amazing if you see GOPers stumbling over themselves, desperate to defend blatant, abject fascism because they have no other choice (they've been doing it anyway, but I do love watching them dig even more holes into what already isn't left of their ideology)
 
Trump should tweet that he hereby orders car manufacturers to stop putting airbags or seatbelts in cars. This will immediately reduce the cost of a new car. Also, Anti-lock braking systems should be forbidden. They also increase the costs. Regular drum brakes were good enough in the 1950's and that was a golden time. Headrests/restraints should also be eliminated via Trump Tweet. Not needed. Just an eyesore.
Child car seats are a liberal scam. Gone with another tweet. The leftie-hippies just hate the good old days when kids could play in the back of the station wagon. Fun-killers!

And last but not least..he should just put the lead back in gasoline.
 
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