C533A Owners: Is Your Slotket Holding You Back from +897MHz?

[Thorn]

Got the MSI MS-6905 Dual in today and I'll test it tonight to see if there's any difference between it and the Master.

Stay tuned!

 

[IBhacknU]

I only hope you all will still be interested in my contributions once my wife finally lets me get a new chip. (maybe next week?)

Looking to fool around with a C566 from Mr. Wiz.

 

[Eug]

Yes my friends, a little money invested in memory goes a LONG way...

http://www3.sympatico.ca/eug1/Extras/HI_Windows_98_at_960_MHz_Sandra.jpg

960 - 1.8 V - It's not stable in Win98 but as you can see I can benchmark and run Photoshop.
920 - 1.8 V - It seems stable enough but not heavily tested: I ran Unreal Tournament flyby and burnp6 simultaneously for half an hour, and ran UTBench and Q3 demo001 continually for another half an hour.
896 - Not tested.
880 - 1.7 V - I am currently testing with burnp6 and burnbx running simultaneously. No problems after about <edit>an hour and a half, but then... (see below)</edit>.

And, one of the sticks of RAM is still only PC-100. I may just have to swap that one out too... I wonder what a nice MSI slotket would do as well...

Oh yeah... I'm not sure if this had anything to do with it, but I've upgraded from a (high quality) 235 W power supply to an Athlon-certified 300 W supply.

P.S. How do you get those surprised look icons? They would have best described my astonishment seeing Windows 98 load up at 8x120 FSB...

Master CompuWiz, you da man!

 

[Eug]

Doh!

It did not like my torture test.

After 1.5 hours of burnp6 &amp; burnbx together, I added Unreal Tournament flyby and ran them all simultaneously.

It was obvious the CPU was maxed out because the flyby was VERY jerky. Lasted about an hour for it locked up. The Alpha was distinctly warmer to the touch than I've felt before although not hot. (I don't have a CPU temp probe but one problem is this room is quite warm today - doesn't help.) My guess is that 1.75 V would be perfect, esp. now that I've cleaned up the cables a bit in the case, or maybe just better air flow would be the answer. Anyways, at 1.7 V 880 it is much better than before I got the new memory (although it was stable before at 1.8 V).

Anyways, it would seem that Wiz's test setup is probably quite representative of the real world (ie. me ) since he tested this chip at 1.75 V 880 (and then stopped there I think).

Back to 840 MHz I go...

Can you give me cooling advice? (I figure I need better cooling at any speed.)

http://anandforums.gisystech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=177712

 

[Thorn]

Do you have good air circulation in your case? Do you have any exhaust fans besides the PS fan? Sounds like you've got good CPU cooling, the only way you're going to do better is to use a peltier.

Well, heres the results on the MSI Dual Slotket... a bit late, my apologies. I've been really busy and the bbs being down yesterday didn't help.


MSI MS-6905 Dual

850MHz (8.5x100) - 1.70v; Stable
876MHz (8.5x103) - 1.75v; Stable
952MHz (8.5x112) - 1.80v-1.90v; Will Post but is unstable, will load Win98 at 1.90v but won't run any CPU intensive apps.

Well, there you go. Identical results as the MSI Master FC-PGA approved slotket. Didn't really seem to make any difference which MSI you use, just as long as you use one. The MSIs seems to be the best of all the slotkets I've tested. Excellent quality with high stability. I've get the Master just for the hell of it, the added insurance of being able to use them on full CuMines is a nice bonus.

 

[Eug]

Thorn, I have one extra intake fan, but the airflow isn't the greatest. I will NEVER use a Peltier though.


Well, I can't complain about this Abit Slotket !!!.

I repeated my torture test (burnp6, burnbx, flyby, all at the same time) after cleaning up the cables and sealing/opening up appropriate vents in the case. It's amazing what a little tape and elastic bands will do. My 533A still crashed at 880 1.7 V.

However, it survived all three overnight on my BX board at 896 1.8 V, so obviously I really needed the voltage boost. By the way, on my Soyo Via board I ran it (not too stably) at 976 MHz 1.9 V in Windows for a while. (Posts at 992, but I don't think I can test it any higher because of the way the board is set up for the soft menu and jumpers. I may not be understanding the setup correctly, but to try any FSB speeds above 124 one has to boot to 133 first, which is clearly impossible with my Celeron.)

In any case, while it seems that for some people the Abit slotket MAY not be the absolute best, it does very well. I shall formally test 920 MHz soon.

Update - These are all stable with the overnight torture test.

840 MHz 1.7 V (FSB = 105 MHz)
896 MHz 1.8 V (FSB = 112 MHz)
920 MHz 1.9 V (FSB = 115 MHz)

I do not have a PIII to test the slotket at 133 or higher speeds, which is the speed that the Soltek voltage regulated one (not available yet) has problems with.

 

[Thorn]

C'mon, lets not let this thread die quite yet.

Eug, you might want to get a blower to help circulate some of the air in your case. Check here: http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/6/cat6.htm?262. It's the one on the top/right. They do a good job of pushing air where you want it.

 

[Killer Ape]

I agree, this thread deserves to live for awhile more .

Okay Thorn and Eug, one of us has to compile all this valuable info into a useful form. It's all relatively non-scientific (as if most benchmarking truly were) given the range of platforms (except Thorn, of course), but I think it does have the ring of truth to it.

Any ideas on the best way to condense and package this into a new thread or get it onto a site we can link to? We've got three basic hardware variables: CPU, slotket, mobo. We also have two basic performance variables: voltage, max stable FSB/CPU speed. Problem is in some cases we have results for the same slotket (Abit Slotket !!!) on 3 different mobos using 2 different CPUS!.

Ideas? Or should we just lobby Anand to do a C2 (and maybe P!!!E) slotket overclocking round-up .

 

[Eug]

None of us has the resources to do a real slocket roundup, although the data is interesting. (OK, mine is kind of useless considering that I've only tested one slocket.) For the name brand stuff, it seems for slower speeds all are relatively OK, assuming we have the extra .05 V to play with, give or take.

However, I think the true test of stability is 133 and higher, and I agree, it would be nice if some site (like Anandtech) could do an FC-PGA slocket round up. Indeed, in some ways it would be easier than doing a motherboard roundup, because the reviewer doesn't have to build more than a couple or three systems on which to test these slockets.

 

[ChrisL]

So far in this thread there have been several discussions on Celeron 2 on older boards. I have an Abit BH6 (probably an early revision) with the FL Bios 1998 07 10. I am currently running a P2-300 . I am wondering if I could use an overclocked Celeron 2 with a slocket in this board. I would want to use a 100 MHZ FSB, since some of my cards don't like to run out of spec. I imagine I would have to flash the bios.

Is what I want to do feasible?
If so what slotket and CPU should I get?
Is there someplace you suggest I can purchase them? (Note I live in Canada).

Thank you for your help

Chris

 

[Killer Ape]

Go to http://www.abit-usa.com and check their latest BIOS updates for your board. If it says it supports Coppermines, then you're good to go. Flash away. I think they have CuMine and C2 BIOS updates for most of their older boards by now.

If you're only looking to run on a 100MHz FSB, then almost any name brand slotket will do. We seem to have reached the conclusion in this thread that the MSI Master is the most stable. It is also a FCPGA-PPGA slotket, so it is potentially more future proof. I would get either a C533A or a C566 depending on what your budget/speed goal is. Remember if you go with an OEM CPU to get a fan. I'd suggest a Golden Orb, which should be fine for the 800-850MHz range. Many people on the forum got their CPUs, fans, and slotkets from either http://www.allstarshop.com or http://www.azzo.com with good results. If you want a guaranted OCunit search for Compuwiz1 and email him.

Good luck.

 

[Vrangel]

Thorn &amp; compuwiz1

Guys you are great.

I've got all info I needed right here on this thread.

 

[CyruzTheGreat]

*SOBBER*

Well went out and bought a golden orb + the MSI 6905master..

where i could only post 950 before, i can now load ½ way into win2k/win98 .. so im still stuck at 850 /// oh well, it was worth a shot...

BTW, i have all jumpers set to default, thats oki right ? im controlling VCore via bios(bh6 1.0x) and it was at 1.85 at the time..

 

[CyruzTheGreat]

*SOBBER*

Well went out and bought a golden orb + the MSI 6905master..

where i could only post 950 before, i can now load ½ way into win2k/win98 .. so im still stuck at 850 /// oh well, it was worth a shot...

BTW, i have all jumpers set to default, thats oki right ? im controlling VCore via bios(bh6 1.0x) and it was at 1.85 at the time..

 

[Sesopedalian]

I have a BM6. I read more than once that a P3 or C2 FC-PGA would not work in a socket 370 board such as a BM6. So now I hear that I can just plop a coppermine in my BM6 and it will run? I am a bit confused here. Isn't the pin layout different somehow in the flip-chip that prohibits use in the old-style socket 370 boards such as the BM6?

 

[Killer Ape]

Basically, what we found in this thread was that 533a and 566 C2s work in PPGA slotkets and BM6s. There was no testing done using P!!!s.

There's an article on Tom's Hardware about converting PPGA slotkets to FCPGA, but if you have a BM6 then that does you no good. From what I've gleaned from other threads, while C2s seem to work in PPGA sockets, the P!!!s do NOT. You'll need to get a ppga-fcpga converter.

 

[Banjo]

Thorn,

What version is your MS-6905 Dual? I've got a v1.1

Anyone know what'll happen if I try a 566 in a Soyo SY6VBA-133 (Via) which only multiplies up to 8?

Thanks everyone.

 

[Eug]

Well, a 533 works fine on that board, but that's only an 8X multiplier. But any chip should work fine, since the board's multiplier settings aren't used.

 

[Killer Ape]

Banjo: The MSI 6905 Dual I tested was a v1.1.

 

[Mayfly]

First post from a longtime lurker...

I was having weird problems with a C533A, MS6905-Master, and Tyan
Trinity 371 BX MB. The BIOS would come up and I could usually go
into the setup screens, but it wouldn't boot from either floppy,
CDROM or HD. There was some activity from the CDROM/HD, but no
floppy access at all. The BIOS (AMI) would print WAIT, no beep, and
either hang, or reboot, after a several second delay.

I tried a PII and confirmed that the MB is OK. Then, inspired by
the success stories of C2's in PPGA sockets on this thread, I tried
the socket (this MB has both). Works great, even at 800MHz at 1.5
volts. The downside is that there is no voltage adjustment on this
board; I was counting on using the slocket for that.

As an engineer, I suspect the slocket is bad, perhaps an address line
short. Could also be an incompatibility having to do with the
unusual bus trace routing from the CPU, socket, card edge connector,
plus the stubs created by the PPGA socket on the MB. But I really
doubt that this would be a problem even at 66MHz.

My inclination is to stick with the 800@1.5 for now, and perhaps at
some point mod voltage select lines on the MB to try for more.

 

[Killer Ape]

Mayfly: This BIOS is the latest and supports CuMines (somewhat stupid question since it correctly set to 1.5v for the C2, but I had to ask )? If you set the jumpers on the slotket to a higher voltage it doesn't detect the CPU at the higher voltage? It seems that if the BIOS has CuMine support then it would at least offer 1.65v as a voltage option.

If the current BIOS supports both C2s and P!!! CuMines, then you could try flashing an older BIOS that only has P!!! CuMine support, which may detect the C2 as a P!!! CuMine and give you 1.65v as the default voltage. Just a guess.

If it's stable at 800 at 1.5v that's pretty good, especially using a slotket.

 

[Mayfly]

Yes, I did flash the BIOS to the latest. That's the first thing I
did with the borrowed PII in there. I was disappointed when I stuck
the C2/slocket back in and it made no difference.

Anyway, there was never any problem with getting settings to work
right, even with the original BIOS. I'm not sure I tried CPU-select,
though, I went straight to a 1.65V override.

I tried every jumper combination on the 6905 that made sense and a
few that didn't; no change in symptoms.

Note that the slocket is currently not being used; I'm using the
370 socket that is built into this dual slot1/S370 motherboard.

 

[Killer Ape]

Mayfly: My bad. Re-read your message. Now I see that you're using the socket, not slot1. That's a stumper if you have no jumper/BIOS voltage overrides. Again, the only thing I can think of is trying an older BIOS, but I know that didn't work with my Abit BX6r2. The BIOS I was using nominally supported CuMine P!!!s and only Katmai Celerons. It detected the C2 as a &quot;P!!!533E&quot; and set the default voltage (correctly) at 1.5v, not the 1.6/1.65v of a P!!!.

You could look into the Evergreen (I think) PPGA-FCPGA socket converters as another option. I'm not sure how voltage regulation works on those, or how they affect OC stability.

 

[Mayfly]

Thanks, Ape.

Regarding the Evergreen converter: from working on really high-speed
stuff that is very touchy about impedance continuity and trace length,
I've developed a phobia about inserting stuff into engineered paths,
even though 100MHz shouldn't be too sensitive to that sort of thing.
So the slocket felt &quot;iffy&quot; from the start, but there were all those
reports of success...

But if I get ambitious and try hacking the MB to change Vcore, I'll
report how it goes.

I'm also interested in trying the slocket in another system to see if
it's just plain broke. Volunteers?

 

[Killer Ape]

Well, you could always try your luck with a new slotket. It may be worth a shot for ~$14.

Did you mention if you tried BOTH FCPGA and PPGA modes using the MSI 6905 Master? My Abit Slotket !!! worked with a C533a in either FCPGA or PPGA. If there's some sort of pin compatibility issue with the slotket and your mobo in one mode, then maybe the other mode will work.

Good luck.