C#, VC++, VC, or JAVA? I'm totally torn

[Randeeb]

I'm torn between C# and VC++. What I want is to migrate my "online" database front-end (written in php) to a stand alone program. I picked up a book on C and found it to be very helpful. However, I can't find any information, nor do I know where to start on the web, to study the "visual" portion of the language. "Accessing, and controlling data flow" will be the easy part for me, but the visuals I can't get down. I'd even be happy to write this thing in the old 16 bit menu driven style. But I don't know where to start. So, with such frustration, I decided to give C# a try as it starts with basic programming knowledge but moves at a good pace into the visual portion. However, if the likely hood of this language surviving or being replaced soon, I'd rather spend time with VC++. Any thoughts on what I should do? Should I use straight C and write the visuals myself, menu driven??? If so, where do I start, any reccommend sites or books that can help? C# or VC++ IYO?

This is the post that I made on other forums. Seems the consensus feels that its a waste to study C# vs VC++ or VC. Now some are suggesting using java. Problem is, I have tried java and would ultimately LOVE to learn that language, however, I can't get the oop part. I think syntax from language to language is pretty much the same (those based on C anyhow), the data structures and handling vary of course, but generally syntax is recgonizable from language to language. Have any of you had the same difficulty learning java as I have? My programming experience has been limited to writing a few php scripts. Beyond that, it's all what I've read. I'm tired of reading, but I'm willing to give one more a try. I need a good book on java that can explain the oop concepts and syntax to a virgin programmer. Any suggestions?

 

[Nothinman]

Technically there is no 'visual' portion of C or C++. You can get 3rd party libraries to do it for you (qt, MFC, gtk, etc) and you'll have to read up on each library and decide which one works best for you.

MS is pouring a lot of money into making C# replace Java, I doubt it's going away any time soon. Even so, I'd prefer something like MS-centric myself, just because I don't like tying myself down to one OS or vendor.

 

[Randeeb]

Where can I find info on these library functions for the visual portion of c/c++

 

[Randeeb]

nvm, I found the sites for them. That seems like some major league advanced stuff. Think this is WAY above my present level.

 

[Armitage]

You might consider Python with the TKinter gui library. That should be a fairly comfortable transition from PHP.
TKinter isn't the nicest GUI library, but it's not bad and is very cross-platform. I'd suggest Qt, but that's expensive for windows or no-free projects.

 

[notfred]

I find java easier than C++, but maybe that's just me.

 

[RSMemphis]

Well, C# was "invented" to avoid buffer overflow exploits and the like, whereas in VC++ you can easily still achieve them.

For something you will use online, C# is probably preferable...

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: notfred
I find java easier than C++, but maybe that's just me.

It's not just you; much of the software industry agrees. However, Java has not and probably will not gain a strong following for client applications.

Visual C++ is finally visual. They have a real CLR-targetted RAD form designer for managed C++ in the upcoming VStudio .NET 2003. Only took them 10 years to live up to the brand name. =)

 

[Codewiz]

C# is a fun language. It is easy to create GUI's and in my experience much faster than Java. One you learn C# you pretty much know Java too since they are very similar.

I have built a few applications in both languages and C# GUIs just seem more responsive which isn't a surprise.

C++ is a very powerful language but if you are creating online content you might as well try C#.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: manly

Originally posted by: notfred
I find java easier than C++, but maybe that's just me.

It's not just you; much of the software industry agrees. However, Java has not and probably will not gain a strong following for client applications.

Visual C++ is finally visual. They have a real CLR-targetted RAD form designer for managed C++ in the upcoming VStudio .NET 2003. Only took them 10 years to live up to the brand name. =)

What makes VC++ "visual" was it's resource designer. Granted, there are several available resources designers, but VC++'s is actually quite good.

I agree though, it was kind of a misnomer. Not everyone can build their GUIs using dialogs only.

One you learn C# you pretty much know Java too since they are very similar.

I'm vexed by statements like these. The Java and C# syntax is incredibly simple. The platform is what takes the most time to learn. You can learn the syntax for C# in under an hour, but it will take you much longer to assimilate the FCL (framework class library). Same goes for Java. You may know you can use a StreamReader in C#, but there's obviously no syntactic equivalent in Java.

I have built a few applications in both languages and C# GUIs just seem more responsive which isn't a surprise.

Considering that most of the .NET FCL is simply a wrapper around the win32 api, this isn't surprising at all.

C++ is a very powerful language but if you are creating online content you might as well try C#.

ASP.NET is implemented as a C++ ISAPI extension. You can do a lot with C#, but you can't build ISAPI extensions

Point: each language/platform/tool has its place.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: manly

Originally posted by: notfred
I find java easier than C++, but maybe that's just me.

It's not just you; much of the software industry agrees. However, Java has not and probably will not gain a strong following for client applications.

Visual C++ is finally visual. They have a real CLR-targetted RAD form designer for managed C++ in the upcoming VStudio .NET 2003. Only took them 10 years to live up to the brand name. =)

What makes VC++ "visual" was it's resource designer. Granted, there are several available resources designers, but VC++'s is actually quite good.

I agree though, it was kind of a misnomer. Not everyone can build their GUIs using dialogs only.

One you learn C# you pretty much know Java too since they are very similar.

I'm vexed by statements like these. The Java and C# syntax is incredibly simple. The platform is what takes the most time to learn. You can learn the syntax for C# in under an hour, but it will take you much longer to assimilate the FCL (framework class library). Same goes for Java. You may know you can use a StreamReader in C#, but there's obviously no syntactic equivalent in Java.

I have built a few applications in both languages and C# GUIs just seem more responsive which isn't a surprise.

Considering that most of the .NET FCL is simply a wrapper around the win32 api, this isn't surprising at all.

C++ is a very powerful language but if you are creating online content you might as well try C#.

ASP.NET is implemented as a C++ ISAPI extension. You can do a lot with C#, but you can't build ISAPI extensions

Point: each language/platform/tool has its place.

My point was basically if you know java or c# the other will be very simple to pick up. I started in java and I was able to move to c# without any effort.

Once you know any high level language it isn't hard to pick up another. In the case of java and C# it is even easier.

You may know you can use a StreamReader in C#, but there's obviously no syntactic equivalent in Java.

If everything was the exact same then it would be the same language just different compilers and JIT. Of course the libraries aren't exactly the same but picking up the platform as you go is pretty easy going from one to another. The hardest thing in java would probably be the GUI aspect coming from C#. I personally use the swing package in java since that is what I am most familiar with. Making a GUI based app in java is better than C++ but not as nice as C#. Of course if GUI is all you are concerned with then I would be using VB.

As for ASP.NET, I haven't messed with it at all but from what I understood you can use C# for creating ASP pages. I have only dealt with PHP and ASP. I used javascript for my ASP projects.

 

[Descartes]

If everything was the exact same then it would be the same language just different compilers and JIT. Of course the libraries aren't exactly the same but picking up the platform as you go is pretty easy going from one to another.

My only point was that the underlying platform is the most time consuming part of knowledge assimilation.

Of course if GUI is all you are concerned with then I would be using VB.

.NET Windows Forms is *VASTLY* superior to VB's concept of forms.

As for ASP.NET, I haven't messed with it at all but from what I understood you can use C# for creating ASP pages. I have only dealt with PHP and ASP. I used javascript for my ASP projects.

You can use any CLS compliant language in ASP.NET (Eiffel, Perl, C#, VB.NET, JScript.NET, C++.NET -- also called managed C++, etc.), or in any facet of .NET for that matter.