C+D lightning lap 2014 is out...

[railer]

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3221962


That z/28 moves out.
And back in my price range.....the Fiesta ST seems like a fun ride for the $.

 

[Fenixgoon]

wooooow that is fucking impressive from the Z/28! As much as people like to rip on the camaro, it puts many other cars to shame.

 

[tweakmonkey]

I really want a Fiesta ST. Everyone raves about how great it is. I test drove it and had some really square dude in the car so I couldn't push it, but the car felt super nimble and fun. Great chassis, brakes, shifter, engine.

Also I'm surprised the BRZ wasn't included in this list.

 

[JCH13]

wooooow that is fucking impressive from the Z/28! As much as people like to rip on the camaro, it puts many other cars to shame.

"-The Z28 is still running cheater tires and the results are irrelevant. "

What tires are those?

 

[Imported]

"-The Z28 is still running cheater tires and the results are irrelevant. "

What tires are those?

Looks like these: http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/car/sheet-motorsport/pzero_trofeo_r.html

Streetable DOT-legal track tires.

 

[vi edit]

Guess I've really been out of the car loop. I didn't know there was a $75,000 Camaro.

 

[Jimzz]

They are the factory tires that come on that optioned car, so no they are not cheater tires. That's just a upset Honda fanboy.

They called them goodyear arrivas in the review. Trying to find them now.

 

[JCH13]

Looks like these: http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/car/sheet-motorsport/pzero_trofeo_r.html

Streetable DOT-legal track tires.

From Tire Rack: 'developed for Lotus Exige cup cars'

So, yeah, it's on race rubber. Cheating!

 

[tweakmonkey]

Cheating or not, those tires would last like 2000 miles on the street and only a weekend or two at the track, and if you threw tires of that compound on every car in the lineup, you'd have completely different results.

 

[Jimzz]

Cheating or not, those tires would last like 2000 miles on the street and only a weekend or two at the track, and if you threw tires of that compound on every car in the lineup, you'd have completely different results.

And that is why they tested the cars as they drive off the dealers lot. No adjustments, just what the car comes with.

Was it the NSX that also came with very softy tires as well? I remember a Asian car have complaints about tires wearing out fast.

 

[xBiffx]

How do they decide on these cars? Seems there are many missing and few we could do without IMHO.

 

[rommelrommel]

How do they decide on these cars? Seems there are many missing and few we could do without IMHO.

Usually has a lot to do with what the manufacturers are willing to send.

ETA: I think the car must have been new, or not previously tested, or substantively updated from a previously tested model.

 

[Ferzerp]

Those are the only tires you can get with a Z/28 from the factory. They have 80 tread wear rating, but still, are the only option. It's a track car; it comes with track tires. The thing doesn't even have 2 speakers or an A/C if you don't order it with one. You expect them to sell it with trackable street tires instead of streetable track tires?

edit: The Boss 302 LS had even shorter lasting track tires from the factory. Were they cheater tires too?

 

[JCH13]

Those are the only tires you can get with a Z/28 from the factory. They have 80 tread wear rating, but still, are the only option. It's a track car; it comes with track tires. The thing doesn't even have 2 speakers or an A/C if you don't order it with one. You expect them to sell it with trackable street tires instead of streetable track tires?

edit: The Boss 302 LS had even shorter lasting track tires from the factory. Were they cheater tires too?

It's a 60 treadwear rating, not to nit-pick too much. TR Source.

The point being made (at least by me) is that comparing a bunch of cars with a wide variance in tires, something that WILL be replaced or upgraded in a relatively short amount of time, is quite silly. Hell, changing between various flavors of R-comps can result in several seconds difference in lap time on shorter tracks. Going from the 60 treadwear tires on the Z28 to the 220 treadwear tires on the 911 Turbo S (the next slowest car) will make a HUGE difference.

I'm not saying the designers were right or wrong to put super-sticky rubber on a car like that. I am saying the comparison's lap times, and specifically the Z28's ranking, means very little when comparing these cars because the tires can, and will, be very different in the wild.

 

[Ferzerp]

But reviews have little choice to compare cars stock. You're looking at a huge can of worms the moment you start swapping things around from what you get when you buy the car. I can make the same argument that brakes should be swapped out. Or maybe we should strip all the weight possible. Or run a different tune. etc.

I think you see the slippery slope that allowing *anything* but stock configuration would do.

 

[Midwayman]

But reviews have little choice to compare cars stock. You're looking at a huge can of worms the moment you start swapping things around from what you get when you buy the car. I can make the same argument that brakes should be swapped out. Or maybe we should strip all the weight possible. Or run a different tune. etc.

I think you see the slippery slope that allowing *anything* but stock configuration would do.

Agreed, but I think there is somewhat of an agreement that street cars should come with street tires. It would certainly be interesting to see the whole thing re-run all using the exact same tire model. I know there are plenty of cars that swing the other way. That they are crippled by the crappy OEM all season rubber they put on them.

 

[xBiffx]

Agreed, but I think there is somewhat of an agreement that street cars should come with street tires. It would certainly be interesting to see the whole thing re-run all using the exact same tire model. I know there are plenty of cars that swing the other way. That they are crippled by the crappy OEM all season rubber they put on them.

This for sure. Doesn't do a lot of good to give numbers that only have meaning on a track. Unless you're buying a race car, that's pretty pointless.

 

[Ferzerp]

Agreed, but I think there is somewhat of an agreement that street cars should come with street tires. It would certainly be interesting to see the whole thing re-run all using the exact same tire model. I know there are plenty of cars that swing the other way. That they are crippled by the crappy OEM all season rubber they put on them.

Street cars typically do. The car being called out is not a street car though. It's a dedicated track car that happens to be street legal.

 

[vshah]

And that is why they tested the cars as they drive off the dealers lot. No adjustments, just what the car comes with.

Was it the NSX that also came with very softy tires as well? I remember a Asian car have complaints about tires wearing out fast.

that was due to extreme toe in on the rear tires on the NSX. they revised the alignment spec in 1993 and tire wear became acceptable.

 

[Midwayman]

Street cars typically do. The car being called out is not a street car though. It's a dedicated track car that happens to be street legal.

Lots of companies sell cars with 'track' packages of varying degrees. Street legal = street car unless you really want to start making all sorts of judgement calls on what car is a track car and what is a street car. I don't really care if they want to test them all on DOT legal R compounds so long as they all play fair.

 

[Jimzz]

that was due to extreme toe in on the rear tires on the NSX. they revised the alignment spec in 1993 and tire wear became acceptable.

That is a small part but the tires were very soft the first years, they had a treadwear rating of just 120. They changed from the A-022H1 for '91-'93 to the A-022H0 for '94+ to combat it as well. They were sued by quite a few owners due to tire wear issues.

 

[Ferzerp]

I'm not sure that an argument that a car with a stripped interior, no creature comforts, a single speaker (a mono if you will) and no A/C, advertised and sold as a track car is a street car because it happens to be street legal is a very good argument.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Also I'm surprised the BRZ wasn't included in this list.

It is, just on a previous list. Does around 3:19. Fiesta would be nipping at it's heels.

The under $35k portion is still dominated by the mustangs while the GM boys have the under $65k sewn up. Nice to see the red white n blue kickin ass n takin names.

 

[railer]

I'm not sure that an argument that a car with a stripped interior, no creature comforts, a single speaker (a mono if you will) and no A/C, advertised and sold as a track car is a street car because it happens to be street legal is a very good argument.

I just priced out a z/28 on the Chevrolet website, and it looks like the z/28 interior is equipped normally (siriusxm radio, power locks/windows, keyless entry, etc.), BUT A/C and the 6 speaker audio system is an option and not std. equipment.

As to the tires....the OP on the Honda website had a smiley face by his z/28 tire comment, I think that was just a joke, as some people get their panties in quite a twist about a 75k Camaro, and attribute its performance only to the tires and do not give credit to the car at all.

It was riding on OEM rubber. Granted those Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R's are $573 per tire...but they are stock!

 

[halik]

They are the factory tires that come on that optioned car, so no they are not cheater tires. That's just a upset Honda fanboy.

They called them goodyear arrivas in the review. Trying to find them now.

Not really a fair comparison, since you'd die on those in a rainstorm; camaro would drop heavily in the ranking if everyone was running rcomps.