Bye bye roadmap

[replicator]

Bush has agreed to just about all of Sharon's demands.

The first president to legitimize the illegal settlements, and basically saying good bye to the roadmap and making it more difficult to ever find a final peace settlement.



Bush says Israel could keep some occupied land

 

[charrison]

No map has worked so far.

 

[replicator]

It looks like he is going after democratic Jewish voters, who can tip the scales at the next election. This is going to majorly inflame the Arab world, but I guess that was never a big concern. I think Bush should have still asked more from Sharon before giving him the green light. It just seems like he is giving too much to him, while not taking the Palestinians into consideration.

"Domestically, though, the move could enable Bush to chip away a few more of the Jewish voters who have traditionally been loyal to Democrats. And in a tight election, the small minority of Jewish voters -- who tend to have strong turnout levels -- could give Bush an edge in battleground states such as Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

"Given that Jews turn out at an 80 percent turnout rate, if you swing the Jewish vote 10 percent in Ohio, that could give you Ohio," said Nathan Diament, a lobbyist for the Orthodox Jewish movement. Though he believes Bush's motive is principle rather than politics, Diament also notes that the courting of Jewish donors -- hugely important to Democrats -- could aid the Republican Party."

opps forget the link

Move Could Help Bush Among Jewish Voters

 

[Steveo33]

I always thought Clinton was the first to want them to give it all up?

You're very, very cynical of motivations.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Steveo33
I always thought Clinton was the first to want them to give it all up?

You're very, very cynical of motivations.

I think it is impossible to be cynical of motivations when it comes to politicians.

 

[Steveo33]

Ok, I think to quite an extent you're right, but that still doesn't mean negative judgments are right. I'm just as cynical of one with obvious biases claiming judgment over another's motivations if their views are different.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Steveo33
Ok, I think to quite an extent you're right, but that still doesn't mean negative judgments are right. I'm just as cynical of one with obvious biases claiming judgment over another's motivations if their views are different.

You should be. Be cynical an suspicious of anything and everything involved in politics! No upstanding and forthright person would want to be a politician.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

I see you are for the up-rooting of the Jews from a land they've occupied so long that common land-law would say is theirs?

Bye bye roadmap

oddly enough, this is part of the 'road map', which calls for compromise on both sides.

These steps described in the plan will ... make a real contribution towards peace

in my view, if you terrorize to try to get your way you loose some of your former ground

"As you have stated, a Palestinian state will never be created by terror, and Palestinians must engage in a sustained fight against the terrorists and dismantle their infrastructure."

In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli population centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949

America is wrong to support any side, if we just let the Israelis do as they wish this whole thing could be settled in about 40 days.

but then children's textbooks in Egypt say that Egypt was about to win against the Israelis t'll America steeped in... so let's just let the Jews be driven into the sea, as per the stated goal of all major leaders of the Palestinians.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison
No map has worked so far.

Why would you need a map when the U.S./Isreal invasion combo will spread out starting from Iraq and Afganistan?

 

[Jhhnn]

The roadmap was an obvious farce almost immediately after its announcement, the day the israelis pulled off their first hellfire missile assassination. The Bushies did nothing.

Straight bait and switch from the Bushies- their fave at home and abroad. I strongly suspect the whole scenario was outlined during the Cheney-Sharon meetings that took place early in 2002... the Israeli crackdown, the Iraqi invasion, the announcement of the map, the betrayal of the Palestinians... the real roadmap.

 

[conjur]

You go, Bush!

Destroy foreign relations even more!!

 

[NumbersGuy]

As Blair is Bush's poodle, Bush is Sharon's bitch!

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Israel has a right to that land that is granted by God. Palestinians are terrorists. I used to side with them but their repeated suicide-bombings are really grating on me. At this point Palestinians should all move into Jordan and get the heck out of Israel and leave Israel alone IMHO.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Israel has a right to that land that is granted by God. Palestinians are terrorists. I used to side with them but their repeated suicide-bombings are really grating on me. At this point Palestinians should all move into Jordan and get the heck out of Israel and leave Israel alone IMHO.

Granted by God?? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You do realize that land was there for BILLIONS of years before any human set foot on it? And it will be there for BILLIONS of years after the human race is gone?

 

[BugsBunny1078]

God made the land and he gave it to Israel. It is his to give since he owns it.
Genesis 10:19 - And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.

Exodus 13:5 - And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, that thou shalt keep this service in this month.

Exodus 23:23 - For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

Numbers 13:29 - The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.

Numbers 21:3 - And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.

Deuteronomy 7:1 - When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

Judges 1:28 - And it came to pass, when Israel was strong, that they put the Canaanites to tribute, and did not utterly drive them out.

 

[conjur]

 

[ThePresence]

OMG! The Palestinians may not get everything they want! They may actually have to compromise! Forget it, the roadmap is gone! WHAT ROADMAP?!

 

[myusername]

But Bugs, nowhere in any of those quotes does it say that God gave Israel to the Jews.

In several places, the current dwelling places of particular tribes is listed, but certainly nothing is listed as being ordained by God.

The closest any of them gets is

And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.

Which only shows that on one occasion God listened to the Jews and helped them acquire some property. Nowhere does it say that the property was to be theirs permanently, and nowhere does it say that the Jews cannot or will not fall into the Lord's disfavor.

How do you know the Jews haven't pissed off God since the bible was written, and now He is in the process of exacting punishment?

 

[rickn]

Palestinians will be satisfied with nothing less than a non-existant Israeli state. I do not agree with not letting refugees back. That part of the world, they are all intertwined with each other. Sorta like California and Mexicans. Denying them to return to their homes, which may include within Israel, is wrong, and Bush should not have endorced it.

 

[Czar]

just everyone take a look at the locational map on where those settlements sharon wants to keep are
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40033000/gif/_40033377_westbank_detailed2_203.gif
they are almost dead center on the westbank, keeping them would perminently stop the palestinians from having a state of their own

and whoever says that the land grab is legal or whatnot

The Fourth Geneva Convention, which forbids an occupying country from moving its citizens into the territory, is frequently cited as establishing the illegality of the settlements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

This is just a horrible decision by bush, which just fuels the hate arabs have for the us even more and will ofcorse make the whole Iraq problem even of more of a problem

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
OMG! The Palestinians may not get everything they want! They may actually have to compromise! Forget it, the roadmap is gone! WHAT ROADMAP?!

Annexing the settlements is not a fscking compromise!
About the issue of the right to return that could have been a compromise if it would have been agreed upon by both sides in a diplomatic discussions, not one of them saying "no you cant have that no matter what"

 

[Bowmaster]

Real men don't read roadmaps - or ask direction.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ThePresence
OMG! The Palestinians may not get everything they want! They may actually have to compromise! Forget it, the roadmap is gone! WHAT ROADMAP?!

Annexing the settlements is not a fscking compromise!
About the issue of the right to return that could have been a compromise if it would have been agreed upon by both sides in a diplomatic discussions, not one of them saying "no you cant have that no matter what"

Of course it's a compromise, Israel is giving land, and keeping some. No, they want it ALL.
According to your view, please list the compromises that the Palestinians are willing to make.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ThePresence
OMG! The Palestinians may not get everything they want! They may actually have to compromise! Forget it, the roadmap is gone! WHAT ROADMAP?!

Annexing the settlements is not a fscking compromise!
About the issue of the right to return that could have been a compromise if it would have been agreed upon by both sides in a diplomatic discussions, not one of them saying "no you cant have that no matter what"

Of course it's a compromise, Israel is giving land, and keeping some. No, they want it ALL.
According to your view, please list the compromises that the Palestinians are willing to make.

what, is israel giving land? where?
the realistic comprimse is ofcorse halts of all agression and like the other roadmap made by both palestinian and israeli diplomats created a very limited right of return

annexing those settlements stops everything since the settlements are the core of the problem

 

[EagleKeeper]

The Palestinians have had 30 years to comprimise.
Their ego and terror sponsors have refused to allow it. It has always been insisting on no Isreal or war.

Isreal is willing to give up control of some areas in return for safety.

However, the PLO will not be able to control the areas that are vacated by Isreal.